It appears that the bandits have once again shown their true colors. Lap dogs of the treacherous and honor-less snakes. If all want as planned the world of Leskovic would be returned to the Falcons and there would be a few less bandits plaguing the region. Most likely the cowards would already have fled the scene of their most recent crimes. As the last of the task force reported in ready for the jump to Leskovic, it just remained to be seen if Mr. Murphy would rear his head.
OOC:Clan naval forces (412.5 FP) lead by CSA arrive in system seeking a naval engagement.
CHH and CSA warships are forming a blockade. (165.25 FP) Numerous CJF troop carriers are contained within the clan formation.
Would have been up earlier, but the SLDF, taxes and a virus interfered.
Clans Init roll (if required)
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 6, 5, total 11[/blockquote]
[No DC forces in the hex at the beginning of the turn.]
OP If Silentwarrior specifies his commitment, you might want to add that as well.
WiE Init
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 2, 2, total 4[/blockquote]
The Star Admiral reviewed the information in front of him. The presence of this group of clans bode odd. He opened the channel and spoke to the assembled fleet.
"Opposing forces, I am Star Admiral Wolfgang Carns. Who is in command of the assembled fleet that we will defeat in honorable combat?"
"Enough of your pretenses, bandit Wolfgang. You and your gutter kin were given another chance, and have once more proven yourself honor-less. Your cowardly attacks against Adder forces, pirate raids against the Jade Falcons, and the invasion of this world alongside the honor-less Draconis snakes show your true intentions. I do thank you though as your actions have helped me convince my Khan that you really are the cowardly scum that must be disposed of. For you at least, Wolfgang, your greed has lead to your destruction while your bandit leader cowers amidst his not-named masters." -Tabitha Paik, CSA
"Are you addled Tabitha? Your dishonorable force was the one who turned her guns against the people of Grummium. Or, do the clans hold such cowardice in high esteem these days? We have upheld the agreement we had with your clan. Just as the agreement at Pasig was upheld by the inner sphere. Instead, it is you and the rest of the clans who conveniently discard your honor and your words when it suits your needs. Now, are you prepared to man up and act honorably and see if you can defeat a foe who is the better of the Snow Ravens in honorable combat? Or, are you too inept and inpotent to risk such a fight? In front of these clans, shall you once again show your cowardice against a foe who is willing to face any of you in honorable combat? Are you so afraid of being defeated? Are you so sure of your weakness that you require such numbers? Come Tabitha the Weak, prove me wrong as the founder intended. Or, follow the path of the weakling you are on."
"You are no longer clan having chosen to side with the not-named. Only bandits such as yourself died under Adder guns at Grumium. We came prepared to defeat you and your honor-less paymasters. It is not our fault that they abandoned you, just as you have abandoned the Clans. If you actually understood the words you spout, you would know and not need to be told, that the only honor in battling bandits is to annihilate them with as little loss as possible. Since I know your stalling and pleading is an attempt to save your cowardly lives, fear not. Any who survive the coming battle will receive the appropriate care and shall be allowed to keep their miserable lives under the guidance of a true clan of Kerensky."
"So Tabitha, which of the true clans you came with will care for our wounded. For, surely, your feeble self is no longer clan. But, we shall see who wastes what."
OOC - Exiles will attempt to depart the system, which I believe requires an 8+. Going to review the rules though.
Unless its been changed for the new itteration, its 8+ for each element leaving, with lesser rolls seeming to lead to automatic distruction (I suppose it could lead to a fight and its just never mattered since its always been such over kill; I don't know how big a force we're looking at here). So you need to roll for each unit seperately.
Blockade Running:
Wolf's Wind Flotilla - 56.75 FP
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 1, 3, total 4[/blockquote]
Ulric Kerensky - 25 FP
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 6, 4, total 10[/blockquote]
Star Admiral Carns stepped up to the comm station, a tight link on the lead Hell's Horse vessel.
"To the Hell's Horses, do you ascribe to this dishonorable path that the yellow snakes follow? Our clans have continued to be friends where others have been blind, including working together and developing fine new hardware for our warriors. We are preparing to depart this system. Will you stand by and allow us the honor of facing the Adders alone or shall you choose to throw your lot in with this chaclas?"
CHHS Sleipner,
Flagship of the Red Pegasus Fleet
Leskovik
Star Admiral Chester Dwelley stood perfectly still, arms crossed, as the incoming message was patched into the bridge communications channel. He was not the least bit surprised by the message, given the nature of the Exiles. Giving an order for the message to be forwarded to the Adder flagship, he contemplated that the situation of the Exiles here at Leskovik mirrored that of Gamma Galaxy on Ridderkirk.
Then, without even turning to Star Commodore Eliza Dudzinsky, the captain of the Sleipner, he merely commented, "Is the fleet ready, Star Commodore?"
"Aff, Star Admiral."
"Very well. The flag will oversee the engagement. The rest of the fleet may open fire as they bear."
ooc: 127FP from the Horses will engage the remaining CWiE force. From the C37 Leskovik thread, here:
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=64076.0
I believe that the CWiE force is 41FP (given that 56.25FP has already been destroyed and the Ulric Kerensky evaded the blockade and escaped).
1 - No shots have been fired, so no forces destroyed yet. still have to roll the engagement.
2 - All forces were already listed. There are no other Wolf forces here.
I fail to understand your logic here, NVA. You decided on a course of action (ie... to run the blockade) and rolled the results (Wolf's Wind Flotilla was destroyed while the Ulric Kerensky got away).
My presumption from there was that you still had 41FP worth of assets in the system (as per the totals you posted in the C37 Leskovik thread on the CBT forums). Which is what I based my response on.
Failing to run the blockade does not result in auto destruction. It results in a round of battle. Meanwhile, the other FP was not WiE and has already been stated that no DC forces are present. The only WiE forces are the ones listed. The post from before was a joint command post and included other forces.
[OCC Rules; Failing the blockade running roll the unit that failed is automatically destroyed; example see the HH and WC running the DCs blockade of Rasalhague.]
Err...I need to go back and look at the rules. I saw a roll of 2d6+5% damage that the blockaders do and 1d6+5% that the runners do.
This is the old rules that will be in effect from next turn on. The rules used this turn is what Holt has said.
I will follow up, as I received the rules from our Demi GM. Give me a chance to fup...
Quote from: NVA on April 18, 2010, 01:54:21 AM
Failing to run the blockade does not result in auto destruction. It results in a round of battle. Meanwhile, the other FP was not WiE and has already been stated that no DC forces are present. The only WiE forces are the ones listed. The post from before was a joint command post and included other forces.
NVA,
You mention that the other FP was not WiE. Are you able to state which faction owns the other 41FP so that we might progress what will occur here in Leskovik. Thanks.
I posted a joint op by the DC and WiE. GMs have ruled the DC is not present. Hence, I only posted my own FP. As far as I know, that is all the FP present. So, you get to kill me and no one else...Sorry
Two Warships and transports for a Galaxy of ground troops of the true Clan Wolf arrive.
FYI...From the rules thread. If there is a change, please let me know where it is posted...
Blockade Running
Type: Movement
Effect: Contest a blockade without directly attacking the blockade force. Roll 2d6;
2-7 - Failure: Blockade force catches the runners and inflicts 2d6x5% of its FP to them. Runners inflict 1d6x5% of their FP on the Blockade force.
Ok, so you chose not to run the blockade.
The Adder / combined fleet then closes to engage while your dancing around with the blockade.
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 4, 2, total 6[/blockquote]
1 - In the orders, where all the blockading forces noted as coordinating under a single command?
2 - We still only face some portion of the blockading force, as we are blockade running.
3 - Please provide the detail listing of units and FPs, as well as capital ships in each unit.
[OCC Rules
1) Blockades - I am planning to roll back the Blockade rules to the original (less deadly) version that is listed in the original rules PDF. I will also be replacing the prose description of the results with a table.
The rule you posted NVA starts turn 39, the 8+ roll is still in effect as the only way to run a blockade.
OCC]
The rule I quoted is from the official rules thread, not the OOC discussion. It is the official rule, as I understand it.
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=48126.0
The link goes to the rule as it is in place now. The rule you are using is the old rule/new rule starting in Turn 39.
I'm done.
>:(
Galaxy Commander Heston Shi-Lu, having heard that enemy naval forces had been eliminated, ordered his troops to the surface of Leskovik.
"Clan Wolves-in-Exile, i am Galaxy Commander Heston Shi-Lu, of the Jade Falcon Mu Galaxy. I have come to conduct a Trial of Possession for this system. I have numerous Clusters from multiple Galaxies at my command...with what forces shall you defend your claim to this world?"
As the dropships of the Falcons began their descent, the skies above Leskovik churned, the weather patterns boiling at the mass that was forcing its way into the atmosphere.
((OOC: 266.8 FP Jade Falcon Forces, Mixed Aero/Ground))
CWiE had no ground troops here and did not take the world. We merely provided the naval support. So, as I understand there are no Dracs on planet, you face Drac militia I guess.
If there were no Dracs in the first place, this is still Jade Falcon as no one seized the world. So, Falcon Militia.
Uhm, i dont think it would go over well in the Falcon Clan Council if i landed troops and killed my own Militia ;)
Quote from: Marlin on April 24, 2010, 12:30:34 PM
If there were no Dracs in the first place, this is still Jade Falcon as no one seized the world. So, Falcon Militia.
Dracs took the planet. I am just telling you what I was told. No Dracs here. You would need to talk with Holt and Dave to figure out what exactly is going on.
ok then, just waiting to see what militia forces if any are trying to stop the Falcons from taking the planet
OOC - Please hold...I am trying to find the thread on CBT. If the Drac ground forces never took the world, then the Exiles should not still be here at the start of this turn, as we were not on appropriate orders to stay in hostile territory.
That is in the past Noe. Both my IS faction and Clan have faced similar situations before in regards what has occured and basically been told to suck it up by the GMs and live with it. The C37 Leskovik thread stated that both WiE and Draconis Combine forces were invading/blockading the place. A number of clan players spent considerable time planning for C38 of which Leskovik is a major part. It still concerns me that the Dracs have somehow managed to not be able to be there, however you stated your forces precisely (including ship types). As far as I'm concerned your Cameron class ran the blockade, so good luck to it. While the rest of your naval force was destroyed.
ok, so as far as ground is concerned, if the offical view is "suck it up, the Dracs arnt there", does that mean that essentially the Clan forces trying to 'retake' the planet get there and find that it was never invaded in the first place?
Parm...I asked for some time to look into it is all. Further, I am looking into whether I have a valid point that the official rules thread on this site lists the rule I posted versus the version that the OOC thread references. Thank you for your patience while I try to contact ADB.
Hi guys, I apologize for not adressing this sooner. If you have sent me PMs on the subject, please be aware that I have a double-digit number of PMs in my box right now so I may not have read them yet... I'm not ignoring you, just un-burying myself right now.
As best as I can tell, what happened OOC is:
- In turn 37, a combined WIE/DC naval force entered Leskovic on naval engagement orders. They found no opposition in space.
- No ground engagement occured, and the planet remained under JF control (albeit with hostile warships in orbit).
- Due to some creative movement orders, the DC force ended its turn in a different hex, effectively leaving the WIE holding the bag.
- Based on the OOC commentary here, it appears that the DC did not notify the WIE of this "maneuver."
IC, this is the sequence of events:
- Turn 37 - Combined DC and WIE forces enter the system.
- Turn 37 - DC force leaves the system (presumedly right at the end of the turn).
- Turn 38 - Clan counterattack force arrives, rolling a higher initiative than the WIE.
- Turn 38 - Clan blockade is in place prior to WIE leaving the system.
- Turn 38 - WIE commanders realize they have been shafted by their Inner Sphere allies yet again.
As some have correctly pointed out, the rules rollback on bloackeds does not take effect until next turn. This is in direct response to player feedback asking for more lead time on rules changes (which in turn grew out of dissatisfaction with the "lightning erratas" that occasionally occured on CBT).
Having said that, I have no problem with the new rules being implemented in this thread as long as there are no objections. That's a decision for you all to make as players.
Please shoot me a PM if there are additional concerns or issues growing out of this and I will try to address them ASAP. I will also answer any addition items that have already been PM'd to me as soon as I get caught up on my backlog.
Clearly, I would prefer the working rules to the special interest broken rule that was the 'errata'. But, I will wait to see responses from the others.
I planned with the old rule still in effect, so I want it to stay. The situation here is bad enough as we expected much more forces to nail, so..
Anyway, I am for the "intermediate" rule. Next turn the switch, as was written.
*looks at the numbers...
Sure...Took a LOT of effort to plan such a 'risky' battle.
*rolls eyes
OKay, I see where the FP was posted in the initial thread. I am still waiting on the listing of faction representation, how big their force is, and the listing of capital vessels for each group.
Also, what say the other faction players involved with regards to the rule to use. Do you want to use the updated rule where you risk damage or use the older rule that gives you an autokill with no damage?
i'd assume the rule in place at the time(autokill) is the one thats followed. T39, the old rule takes effect...as planned.
Agreed.
Quote from: Daemonknight on April 28, 2010, 12:27:17 AM
i'd assume the rule in place at the time(autokill) is the one thats followed. T39, the old rule takes effect...as planned.
Since it's almost the end of the month, might as well do the salvage roll. 2D6 + 15% I believe.
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 2, 5, total 7[/blockquote]
So, 22% of 56.75FP lost is: 12.485 rounding up to 12.5FP salvage.
Any takers to roll for salvage of the five Warships of the destroyed Exile flotilla? (1x Aegis, 3x Fox and a Vincent Mk42 I believe)
Aegis:
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 3, 1, total 4[/blockquote]
Fox:
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 4, 3, total 7[/blockquote]
Fox:
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 6, 1, total 7[/blockquote]
Fox:
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 4, 2, total 6[/blockquote]
Vincent:
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 4, 2, total 6[/blockquote]
So it looks like no ships recovered.
Since the Horses were the main portion of the blockade, I'd say the salvage goes to them. The Adders won't be claiming any of it anyways. If others want a portion, talk to Parm. ;)
I've no problem the Adders taking their rightful share, Dis. After all, you did provide the majority of the offensive naval interdiction force. Let's wait for the other Clans, and we will sort something out.
Need to get you a new set of dice though. Was hoping to add a nice, formerly shiney, Fox to the one we already have.
Ummm...Autokill rule was used. It has salvage too? I don't think it does. I believe it is autokill, autodead. Isn't the +15 from MM being used also?
[Rules: per Rasalhague thread, autokill is added to the Salvage Pool.]
Seriously broken rule that I can see no fair minded player ever wanting to use when given a choice. But, C'est la vie...
Salvage means gathering each scrap of anything useful. whether it be weapons, armor, superstructure to wiring. Why would that be any damn different than being outnumbered 5:1 and there being salvage?
Why? Simple. A 'reasonable' person would expect damage to both forces. In this case, when given a choice, the players chose to use the magical auto kill rule, risking NOTHING. So, let's recap...
Clans risked nothing in the encounter, by the players choosing to use the broken rule.
Clans get 'salvage' with no risk.
I will stop before I say what I really think of the players involved in this, because it would likely get me banned.
YOU chose to just run the Blockade NVA. YOU did. We kept trying to tell you the rules, yet YOU chose to do it anyways. Just because another player on YOUR side screwed you, don't blame everyone else. This broken rule is why it is going away, because it is broken. I will bet that if the situation was reversed YOU would be doing the EXACT same thing you are trying to disparage those other players for doing.
Quote from: GreyJaeger on April 30, 2010, 03:48:13 PM
YOU chose to just run the Blockade NVA. YOU did. We kept trying to tell you the rules, yet YOU chose to do it anyways. Just because another player on YOUR side screwed you, don't blame everyone else. This broken rule is why it is going away, because it is broken. I will bet that if the situation was reversed YOU would be doing the EXACT same thing you are trying to disparage those other players for doing.
I followed the rule posted on this forum, as quoted to me by a Demi GM. Forgive us for not realizing it. I had already made the choice and made the rolls, so I was stuck with it. This has nothing to do with the Dracs not being there.
And, for the record, I would have chosen to put skin in the game, as it were. Why? Because it is a sportsmanship position. I am not here to 'win' at whatever cost. I am here to try to have fun with other people. That means, I have to risk losing as well as winning. Any scenario where absolute victory is assured is not worth it. So, given the choice, which the players were, on which rule to use, I would have chosen to use the rule that could hurt me too. I am surprised anyone else would choose not too, but, I have been surprised by humanity's capacity to be..........
I will state my apologies here. I am pissed off about this. ANd, I will be frank, it is at the players, not the game, the GMs, or the situation. Regardless, I am done discussing it. The GMs can determine what the final amount of salvage is. I have already begun the transition of the faction to the GMs to run.
Guys, please direct any further discussion of this issue to PMs (copy myself and H13 on them). I understand that things are a little heated here, and I understand why they are heated from both points of view, but I would appreciate it if we could all discuss this in a civil manner.
We all know the Blockade Running errata was broken - thats why it is being abolished in favor of the original rule, but at the same time the old version of the rule is what is in force right now and the Clan side's players were entirely justified in requesting it be upheld. WIE was not the first faction to suffer at the hands of this rule (see the CHH retreat from Rasalhague for an even more painful example), and very soon the negative impact of this rule will be behind us.
As I said, please direct any further discussion of this issue to PMs.