The SHAFT representative awaited the arrival of the Federated Suns and Capellan Confederation delegates for the meeting. The formal request by the Draconis combine Ambassador was hastily received by Brandi Martin. The short dark skinned woman adjusted her glasses as another party entered the door. "Good Morning Ambassador Wu, please join us." The room was a large speaking room devoid of most of the modern amenities, the wood setting gave a feel that things here were solid. "I'll discuss the ground rules for the mediation once the last party arrives."
((For the record, the following is taking place just prior to OP1. The actual combat threads have not progressed, as we were waiting for Faction Orders still.))
Ambassador Wu(Draconis Combine) was not exactly a diplomatic officer. Nor was he exactly a military advisor. He floated between the two jobs, and was currently the perfect man to mix military requirements with diplomatic double-talk. He bowed gracefully to Ms. Martin, and took a seat.
"I thank you for making yourself availible on such short notice, Lady Martin. I hope that we may see order restored from this room."
Wu looked up as the elegant Ambassador Liao-Centrella walked into the chamber, wearing a dress that was the height of fashion in the Magistracy(meaning it had about half the material that most ladies would wear in the rest of the sphere, and most of it covering different places). Wu stood and bowed, which the Capellan Ambassador returned.
"Always a pleasure, Lady Liao-Centrella," Wu was nothing if not gracious.
Director Wes Collins walks in to the conference room. after greeting everyone, he sits down. "I realize that there have been communications between our respective nations, but thanks to representative Martin, we can hash these out face to face and get a real settlement. I understand that the Combine has offered a cease fire in place while we talk, and we of the Federated Suns are willing to abide by that ceasefire, as long as our opponents do the same, of course."
"But enough of our babbling. I see that some interested parties have not arrived, and perhaps it would be wise to wait for them first."
((pretty sure everyone is here: DC and CC, and I thought the RA had already arrived aswell. Can't post longer atm, will get to it later tonight.))
(Ok, wait, who are the players? I thought DK = GM & DC, while Fate = GM & CC. Are one of you stuck with RA also?)
((DK is Head GM, and DC / CJF. For this he is handling CC as well. I handle RA and WiE, and for this am the Moderator as well as this has more to do with the DC / FS then anyone else. The CC is the DC ally, and RA the FS one.))
The stout black woman pursed her lips and began to point at the Federated Suns councilor, but bit back her words and then spoke in a very sweet and overly calm voice. "Won't you please be seated Director Collins."
Once everyone was seated, Brandi began. "All relevant parties are present. Please be advised that within these chambers, I am merely a facilitator of discussion. As the moderator of these discussions, it is not my job to determine the outcome of anything, that is between you all." She said motioning to everyone in the room. "I do however, reserve the right to ask questions and to ask anyone present to relinquish the floor as part of my duties." Brandi manipulated the projector from a small protrusion in the table in front of her seat.
"We have established a priority feeds from Comstar to all locations that have conflict between parties at this table. In addition, should any known hostilities arise, we will be notified by live feed. This will save us the time of sending out additional diplomatic teams." Brandi pursed her lips again and put up her finger to her mouth. "I would like to take a second to extend the Republics elation for showing the trust in us to push for peace between nations that have all participated in the defense of our realm from possible Blakist incursions. Thank you."
"Having said that, we ask that you do ensure your adhere to the request for a total cease fire. While hashing out the terms for peace, any units already issues orders to move will not proceed to aggress once they have arrived. The forces on Blockade will be allowed to remain on Blockade, however the forces that are currently disrupting the flow of commercial good must cease and desist immediately. " Brandi looked at the elegant Ms. Liao-Centrella, is this understood?" she looked at the rest of the table, "..and are there any objections?"
As we speak, orders are being sent out to FS forces to hold off any offensive actions. I would like to note that this includes the invasion of several essentially defenceless planets, the forbearance to sink a couple of warships, and the destruction of a couple of units (all on the DC front). With that in mind, and with the caveat that I understand the Raven Alliance is separately negotiating with the Combine on their own terms, the following is our peace offer.
DC:
DC will acknowledge loss of: Klathandu IV to FS
DC will withdraw and turn over control from: Cassias, Breed, Dobson
DC will retain all salvage on contested worlds
FS Acknowledge loss of: Marlowe's Rift, Huan, Wapakoneta, Bergman's Planet, Harrow's Sun, Thestria, New Aberdeen, Elidere IV, Misery
(FS net loss 7 planets)
CC:
FS Withdrawal and turn over control from: Spica, Manapire
FS Turn over control of: Kafr Slim, Frazer, Bromhead, Horsham
FS Acknowledge loss of: Victoria, Jacson, Ikast, Verlo, Weatogue, Mendham, Jonzac, Glentworth, Sirdar
(edit: Ubidi was the FS win, Cassias is the contested)
Ambassador Liao-Centrella looked at the proposal the FS Ambassador had forewarded.
"Assuming a the Draconis Combine and Federated Suns ambassadors can reach an agreement, I am happy to accept the armistice under the Federated Suns' offered terms. And of course, the warships disrupting commerce will immediatly desist, regardless of the outcome here." A Capellan messenger went off quickly to have the orders drawn up.
Ambassador Wu however, looked far less convinced about the deal the FS had given to him.
"Am I to understand, Mr Collins, that the First Prince expects two transport groups to fight their way past a warship, without support, at Dobson and Breed? I will acknowledge the loss of Klathandu, but not Breed or Dobson. Udibi is an interesting case, as you successfully defeated our forces there, but I wonder if we would have regained it, once our reserves arrived, or the forces defending from the RA were released? Ah well. I will accept the loss of Udibi aswell."
So:
Combine will acknowlege the loss of Klathandu IV and Udibi to the Federated Suns.
Combine will retain salvage from contested worlds, Suns will retain salvage from Klathandu IV and Udibi
Suns relinquish all claim to: Marlow's Rift, Huan, Wapakoneta, Bergman's Planet, Harrow's Sun, Thestria, New Aberdeen, Elidere IV, Cassias and Misery.
CC accepts proposed terms, conditional to the DC and FS coming to an agreement.
You don't acknowledge loss of Ubidi, that was a FS world to begin with. And the FS will not acknowledge the loss of Cassias, that's a pure none starter.
Look, whether it's Wapokoneta or Harper this month, or Breed/Dobson next month, you are on the defensive. You've already lost the 8th Sword of Light on Ubidi. You're going to lose the 5th on Wapokoneta, the 12th Galedon on Cassias. And this is just on your FS front. You've suffered losses Up near New Samarkaand, and I hear tell the Ravens are going to reinforce there. You think they're going to give it back if they actually take it? Our Assault dropships are every bit as good as your warships. We're perfectly willing to go toe-to-toe.
You've got 4 regiments shattered, 1 destroyed with more coming this turn. It's going to be more if you don't stop. See some sense and stop the bloodshed before it's too late for us to stop.
OOC- Ubidi and Cassias were not actually belonging to either nation, they were contested worlds that were being 'negotiated' before I took over the DC and landed troops.
IC-
You've hit a few regiments. Congratulations. I hope your forces on the CC border are doing as well, else I might be making a trip to the new St Syrtis Commonality. Ubidi and Cassias were worlds that neither of us could claim by the end of the fighting against the Word of Blake. If you take that to mean that you own them and we have unfairly taken them from you, that's your perogative. However, I deal purely in facts. I am fully confident that there will be a peace accord between the Combine and the Ravens. In that event, plan to have your only edge stripped from you. The reinforcements that have recently arrived at New Samarkand will be deployed immeditaly, effectivly removing our losses from the table.
Your forces will never make it to Dobson, or Breed. So I wont even bother to consider those as part of your threat. If the Ravens pull out, Wapakoneta becomes purely ours once more, as the Ravens will pull out. Harrow's Sun is the same situation. Your forces have not even landed on Misery, Elidere IV, or Thestria.
So with your allies the Ravens gone, I hope your remaining forces along the front are going to be able to keep us "on the defensive" as you put it, and also survive the reinforcements that're almost equal to your initial invading forces. Lets not forget, we allowed you to come to us. There was a period of 2 months between our re-taking of the worlds you stole, and your assault, which you only considered once you had secured an ally to divert our attention.
So, I once more push foreward my proposal. I do not think idle threats have any more place at this table, as we're all fully aware that you're ability to stop our forces is totally dependant on the inclusion of the Ravens in your battleplans.
At this point, I think it would behoove us to wait for the Ravens to let us know what they have decided. You have said that Breed/Dobson is a non starter, and I have said that Cassias is a non starter. The FS is probably willing to give up claims to Breed/Dobson in return for Wapokoneta, but if the Ravens are actually pulling out, then obviously we can't make that offer. (If the Ravens are indeed pulling out, I question why you requested this meeting in the first place?)
As for the Capellans, I find it surprising that you would stake your acceptance on a DC-FS deal. My understanding is that your ops were planned separately and the launching of this conflict was purely coincidental. If that's the case, why are you acting like you are allied? A junior ally, for that matter? We have offered you your war aims and more. Yet you insist on continuing to fight if some far off conflict is not resolved?
Rather silent until now, the young man representing the Raven Alliance with a studious look and dark features spoke up. "I can honestly say, I never planned on this to be my lot in life. However, to have a successful union, to grow and prosper, one has to have time away from the front lines to plant seeds and to be flexible. If this war ended here and now on amicable terms I think it would be one of the shortest galactic wars in history. Despite the official merger, my people are still an amalgam of people who want war and peace." Royce slicked his hair back. "Whatever events transpire here, there will be people that are happy and those that are disappointed."
"The Raven Alliance is prepared to withdraw from all planets we recently acquired or are have personel stationed on as part of the peace terms. The way we see it, the Federated Suns and Raven Alliance have made a fair push towards solidifying air superiority in the contested zones planetary systems. The key to any advancement in that region would be the ability for transports to make their way to their targets. Much like the problem the Davion, correction, Federated Suns units now face at Dobson." Royce tilted his head towards Director Collins, "Sorry about the slip. I'm still not used to this role as diplomat but as the only Avellar on planet, it was my duty to come."
"My true role as a tactician for my cousin's ears speak more to be about the situation so I don't need to rely on some military advisor. The 'relevance' of most of the worlds exchanged during this incursion is fairly insignificant, thanks to the last statement by the councilor, we know now that there was a goal involved. New Syrtis would be a grand prize for the Cappellans to claim, however, you still have a far way to go and despite having two ships at your disposal, the Federated Suns picket ships (Patrol Groups) in the area are quite formidable. Once they catch up with your warships, I'm fairly certain they can slow your progress even further while the rest of the units focus on the Draconis Combine boarder."
"The Raven Alliance has already achieved it's goals in this conflict. We hold the big bargaining chip for the Federated Suns and acknowledge that while no victory is gauranteed, I'd place my money on Khan Crow to complete what he set out to do. Clanners are persistant that way. While the Raven Alliance has no plans to move forward into the eastern flank of the Draconis Combine, if there is no peace at this table, we will continue to hold these worlds, unless another arrangement is met." The final statement was not directed at anyone and hung in the air for the others to come to their own conclusions.
(ooc: I apologize that this is short, but I'm trying to get out of the office and go home for the holidays.)
(edit: copy and paste issues had a dual Wapokoneta, also, I mixed up Cassias and Ubidi yet again.)
After talking with our RA allies, it seems that the claim that DC has successfully negotiated their withdrawal is a little bit exaggerated. I have been empowered to make the following offer.
Since it is obvious that DC and CC are allied, despite their weak protestations, this offer needs to be accept in full by both the DC and CC. (Or, if CC would like to accept our previous offer and go their own way, we would do that, in which case we will withdraw our offer to DC. As stated, we will abide by the current cease fire agreement, and we will reconvene in 50 days as a group (ooc: before turn 10 OP1) to discuss your response. In the meantime, you know my call number. We'd gladly clear up any issues or confusions.
Just as a warning, if any party breaks the cease fire without appropriate warning and notification, there will be no peace treaty, ever, with that party.
DC:
DC will acknowledge loss of: Klathandu IV to FS, Chirala to RA
DC will withdraw and turn over control from: Ubidi, Wapokoneta
Salvage will be split 50/50 with current combatants, or kept 100% by the province owner on those provinces no longer under combat
FS Acknowledge loss of: Marlowe's Rift, Huan, Bergman's Planet, Harrow's Sun, Thestria, New Aberdeen, Elidere IV, Misery
FS will withdraw from: Dobson, Breed, Harper
RA will withdraw from: New Samarkaand, Koulen, Harrow's Sun, Bergman's Planet
CC:
FS Withdrawal and turn over control from: Manapire
FS Turn over control of: Kafr Slim, Bromhead, Horsham
FS Acknowledge loss of: Victoria, Jacson, Ikast, Verlo, Weatogue, Mendham, Jonzac, Glentworth, Sirdar
CC will keep all salvage
In the calm and demure voice that she used before Brandi spoke up. "This is a rather generous proposition by the Federated Suns in the name of peace. However, I must note the redundancy of the planet Wapokoneta in this proposal. Considering the amount of territory the Federated Suns is already given up and that this is the sole planet in that system, I would recommend removing it from the list of Combine claimed worlds? Just a suggestion. If this can be agreed upon, we can discuss the specific details regarding the salvage."
(Gahh... The problems of copy and pasting when i'm in a hurry... fixed.)
The following thread is closed.
Resolution results in Cease Fire for the entirety of Turn 9 for all factions involved.
Units that had movement will end their turn in their destination hex but will not initiate combat.
Final Peace Agreements to be submitted by the Raven Alliance Turn 10 and witnessed by the SHAFT moderator
Hexes that are contested remain contested until the Peace Accord is signed. At that time, units that are on foriegn soil will make their way out of the system at best possible speed.
Any units that can not get off planet for legitamate reasons can declare an end to the contestation while waiting for their rides.
All participants are invited to bring a Bottom Line Mech Unit per the Tourney rules Lushann to participate with the Raven Alliance sponsored games that coincide with the peace signing.
The following is the proposed the RA will submit as a Peace Treaty for Turn 10. Please review and comment.
QuoteThe Cease Fire between these following nations shall be extended thru Turn 13, in that time of Peace, all units on soil deemed foreign per this Treaty shall make their way off of those worlds at best possible Speed. Any units left on hostile worlds at the end of that time will be deal with at the discretion of the Land Holders.
CC will keep all salvage on the worlds they control. For the rest of the contested zones, the salvage will be split 50/50 with current combatants, or kept 100% by the province owner on those provinces no longer under combat
CC/M - DC
DC will acknowledge loss of: Klathandu IV to FS, Chirala to RA
DC will withdraw and turn over control from: Ubidi, Wapokoneta
FS - RA
FS Acknowledge loss of: Marlowe's Rift, Huan, Bergman's Planet, Harrow's Sun, Thestria, New Aberdeen, Elidere IV, Misery
FS will withdraw from: Dobson, Breed, Harper
FS Acknowledge loss of: Victoria, Jacson, Ikast, Verlo, Weatogue, Mendham, Jonzac, Glentworth, Sirdar
FS Turn over control of: Kafr Slim, Bromhead, Horsham
FS Withdrawal and turn over control from: Manapire
RA will withdraw from: New Samarkaand, Koulen, Harrow's Sun, Bergman's Planet
The Capellan Ambassador points out that the document is lacking the world of Spica, which was initially to be turned over to the CC, according to the original FS draft, and it must be added to this one aswell.
DC Ambassador wishes the cease fire be extended to Turn 15, and notices that no mention is made of salvage. DC demands the same terms that were extended to the CC.
As the GM running this, I find it unfortunate that things have changed so much as to cause controversy when we were so nearly done. It is really difficult to officiate when everyone kept editing their posts.
Yes, there is a section just above the worlds list that stipulates all salvage splits.
Per the current Spica thread, the world is NOT in CC/M hands, and despite the pressure the CC is bringing to bear, the Federated Suns are withdrawing from worlds they have stronger forces at as well. (Victoria, Harper)
I have gone thru this thread and all I can find is the Capellan Ambassador agreeing to the deal, which had been edited 12/20, a week and a half ago.
Also, please note that Udibi is already in Federated Suns possession, it is Cassius that the Draconis Combine is being requested to withdraw from so that the system is not contested.
To that end, I am putting up the following information for parties involved to comment on.
------------------------------------------------------------
The moderator will suggest in the name of peace that the Federated Suns give up Spica if the Draconis Combine is willing to part with Breed & Dobson. The Reason being Spica is a well known and cherrished and traditionally Capellan held world. The Federated Suns have already given up many worlds for the sake of peace. Dobson and Breed have the same unique distinction as Spica, they were both traditionally Fed Suns worlds. Each of these systems, if reclaimed by these factions would reduce the threats to each other's borders.
A 3 Turn Cease Fire was mentioned before. The RA feels that a 5 turn cease fire is a bit excessive when compounded onto the current cease fire that will last through turn 10. The RA will object to any periods longer than 3 turns and not give specifics.
------------------------------------------------------------
Current Propsal
The Cease Fire between these following nations shall be extended thru Turn 13, in that time of Peace, all units on soil deemed foreign per this Treaty shall make their way off of those worlds at best possible Speed. Any units left on hostile worlds at the end of that time will be deal with at the discretion of the Land Holders.
CC will keep all salvage on the worlds they control. For the rest of the contested zones, the salvage will be split 50/50 with current combatants, or kept 100% by the province owner on those provinces no longer under combat.
CC/M - DC
DC will acknowledge loss of: Klathandu IV to the FS, Chirala to the RA.
DC will withdraw and turn over control from: Breed, Cassius, Dobson, Wapokoneta.
FS - RA
FS Acknowledge loss of: Bergman's Planet, Elidere IV, Harrow's Sun, Huan, Marlowe's Rift, Misery, New Aberdeen, Thestria to the DC
FS will withdraw from: Harper
FS Acknowledge loss of: Glentworth, Ikast, Jacson, Jonzac, Mendham, Sirdar, Spica, Verlo, Victoria, Weatogue
FS Withdrawal and turn over control from: Manapire
FS Turn over control of: Bromhead, Horsham, Kafr Slim
RA will withdraw from: Bergman's Planet, Harrow's Sun, Koulen, New Samarkand
(Note that the FS negotiator have left the room after the second offer. I'm assuming that you had commed him for clarifications, also note that I put in "(edit: blah)" after all my edits. And the ONLY edits I've done to the two offers are for Cassias/Udibi, which I got mixed up)
For immediate release to all parties:
The Federated Suns hereby reaffirms that Spica and Fraser were NOT included as part of the second offer to turn over to the Capellans. As mentioned in the second offer, The Capelllans and the Combine must accept both offers as is. If the Capellans wish to accept their portion of the first offer, we will accept that, but at that point, all offers to the Combine are off the table, and we will resume operations against the Combine as of July.
While we appreciate and acknowledge the efforts of the Moderator, the nature of these negotiations preclude us from being able to evaluate the proposal without it coming from the proper representatives. Until such time as such proposal is made from the proper representatives, the only proposal that we are considering is the second offer that we have proposed (or, if the Commonwealth chooses, half of the first offer.)
((The proposal comes from the RA, not the moderator. So basiclly, your stance is accept our offer, or we go back to fighting? Or, the CC can drop out in which case you go back to attacking the Combine...))
No, Our stance is that if you wish to accept the offer, both parties must accept the offer. If the Capellans wish to accept the previous (better) offer, they need to know that they do so by rejecting the second offer.
If either the Capellans or the Combine wish to make a counter proposal, we would certainly hear that and evaluate.
GM: Okay guys. Here's the deal, it's been two months real time. It's been a few days game time as this meeting precludes OP1 and are being conducted as OP1. At the conclusion of these talks, it will be the start of OP2. It's early May still here, not the end of June. There is no reason these talks need to spill over into Turn 10.
Also, it was the Raven Alliance who asked for this joint session that includes the FS and CC, to that end, they are only offering to pay for 1 Armistice Opportunity. If the parties involves cannot settle on a combined peace agreement, then we cannot run the Armistice for turn 10.
I know that Swang wasn't here the whole time and I allowed him to take over the Fed Suns early so he could RP out the remainder of this turn for his faction as it has a huge effect of his future, but the Federated Suns came to this table with every intention of making a deal, not to stall. I ask that Swang please consider this as we go forth.
If the talks break down, I will step out from this as the Moderator and let Dave resolve this during Turn 10. As I will need to reconsider the Raven intentions for this meeting to take a more politically aggressive approach. You know us, we're Ravens, and DK is already too involved as well.
Quotethe nature of these negotiations preclude us from being able to evaluate the proposal without it coming from the proper representatives.
These NPCs ARE empowered to make the choices for their nations.
From here on out, please refrain from including opinion, threats and possibilities. We need solid responses from the representatives present on their current feeling on the current proposal on the table.
So please stay IC for the remainder of this thread and consider the current proposal a tangible draft on a data file for you to puruse and edit for future posting. Quote any passages you don't agree with along with your RP and any official proposals you have.
Thank You,
Jonathan
The Cease Fire between these following nations shall be extended thru Turn 13, in that time of Peace, all units on soil deemed foreign per this Treaty shall make their way off of those worlds at best possible Speed. Any units left on hostile worlds at the end of that time will be deal with at the discretion of the Land Holders.
CC will keep all salvage on the worlds they control. For the rest of the contested zones, the salvage will be split 50/50 with current combatants, or kept 100% by the province owner on those provinces no longer under combat.
CC/M - DC
DC will acknowledge loss of: Klathandu IV to the FS, Chirala to the RA.
DC will withdraw and turn over control from: Cassius, Wapokoneta.
FS - RA
FS Acknowledge loss of: Bergman's Planet, Elidere IV, Harrow's Sun, Huan, Marlowe's Rift, Misery, New Aberdeen, Thestria to the DC
FS will withdraw from: Harper, Breed, Dobson
FS Acknowledge loss of: Glentworth, Ikast, Jacson, Jonzac, Mendham, Sirdar, Spica, Verlo, Victoria, Weatogue
FS Withdrawal and turn over control from: Manapire
FS Turn over control of: Frazer
RA will withdraw from: Bergman's Planet, Harrow's Sun, Koulen, New Samarkand
QuoteThe moderator will suggest
(seems to imply that the moderator made the proposal. In any case, the RA proposal was not the one we agreed on. Spica was NOT included deliberately, particularly since Dobson and Breed were declared non-starters.
Also, the DC and CC get same salvage rights in the proposal. Whoever owns the province gets 100%, if it's contested, then it's split 50/50.
Fate as RA (or, for that matter, Fate as GM) never broached the latest moderator proposal. The last role play from FS stands, we have no idea of the validity of the proposal, and even if it is valid, we're not sure we want to agree to it.)
(Ok, just saw your new offer, will evaluate.)
Brandi looks at the DC counter-proposal that Ambassador Wu silently submitted. "The only change on here I see is that Spica goes to the CC without compensation, is that correct?"
((rping as the CC Ambassador submitted this one))
Ambassador Liao-Centrella smiled sweetly.
"Not quite. If you look closely, we are willing to give up Kafr Slim, Bromhead, and Hoarsham, if the Suns will accept the inevitable at Spica, and also grant us Frazer, one of our original targets. While I appreciate the attempts of the Suns to broker a fair truce, we chose the worlds we wish carefully, and would prefer to gain those holdings instead of the proposed ones. As you can see, this actually causes a net gain of one less planet for us, and we think that it shows we are willing to compromise to see this agreement is finalized."
Brandi looks at the data again and pulls up the planetary status files for Kafr Silim. Putting the data pad down, she hangs her head in despair. "Seriously?" She says looking at the Fed Suns Director, exasperated. "What kind of peace can there be here if you're trying to pass off your sick worlds? I knew you were going to be trouble," She waves her hands in the air as if trying to find the worlds. "What kind of message does that convey to your people?" giving him a sideways glare, she goes back to reviewing that latest proposal from Ambassador Liao-Centrella. "Now that I see where the Federated suns 'generosity' came from. I can re-evaluate this." Shaking her head. "I still see a lot of take and no give here. I see you don't like my proposal regarding Spica for Dobson and Breed, but can you explain why? From my point of view these worlds are like branches filled with fruit hanging into their neighbors yard, just tempting someone to come along and try and pick it. Trimming these branches removes that temptation."
Ambassador Wu answered her.
"I see no reason why the Draconis Combine would give 2 of it's worlds away for no gain to itself. Would Dobson and Breed gain the Combine anything? No. Perhaps it would gain the Capellans a single world in return, but that still does not explain why the Combine should be involved in the equation. I hold no special feelings twords the worlds, and would have little issue trading them for others. But if the Combine is to trade it's worlds, the Combine should gain the benefits, not an ally."
Royce laughed at the smuggness of the Draconis Ambassador. "I have two words for you, New, Samarkand. The deal here is currently dependant on a dual acceptance. The Raven Alliance has so far been very dissapointed with the lack of value this proposal has for our returning the second most valuable planet in Combine space. Perhaps if the Federated Suns aggreed to throw in Frazer with Spica for Dobson and Breed. I'm sure you two" Pointing at the Capellan and Combine negotiators, "could come up with something on the side that would make that kind of decision...less difficult?"
I will need to comm the home office about this offer. However, my feeling is that they will let me know that given the new offer, we will only be willing to settle with the Commonwealth on those terms.
And I'm glad to see the Combine ambassador acknowledge the alliance between the Combine and the Commonwealth.
Which makes it obvious that previous protestations of non-alliance are really lies.
Finally, I'd like to point out that it was the Combine that called for this meeting. So far, they've proposed nothing, and their alliance has proposed nothing acceptable (as far as I know, maybe the First Prince will be gracious, but I don't know why she would feel the need to.)
Perhaps, we could hear from the Combine?
Ok, let's not complicate things. Here's our next offer.
1) Salvage: If a province is contested, everyone gets 50/50 salvage, if you already own a province, you already got the salvage.
2) Ownership: Everyone keeps what they currently own, except: Manapire to CC, Wapokoneta and Cassias to FS, Koulen to DC
3) Forces: Everyone is to be out of provinces they do not own by the end of October (end of T12)
4) Peace Treaty: Everyone is enjoined from declaring war again on any participant until the end of the year (end of T13)
All the talk about "Allowing" People to keep what they currently have, has been removed from the topic. The following is the bare bones basic offer. This offer includes Spica, but not Frazier. Let us restart the negotiations from here.
The Cease Fire between these following nations shall be extended thru Turn 13, in that time of Peace, all units on soil deemed foreign per this Treaty shall make their way off of those worlds at best possible Speed. Any units left on hostile worlds at the end of that time will be deal with at the discretion of the Land Holders.
CC will keep all salvage on the worlds they control or in contestation.
For the rest of the contested zones, the salvage will be split 50/50 with current combatants
DC
DC will withdraw and turn over control from: Cassius, Wapokoneta.
FS
FS will withdraw and turn over control from: Manapire and Spica
RA
RA will withdraw from: Bergman's Planet, Harrow's Sun, Koulen, New Samarkand.
All units currently in uncontested hexes that are not listed fall under the universal stipulation.
"Any units left on hostile worlds at the end of that time will be deal with at the discretion of the Land Holders"
I am double checking the list of contested worlds now.
DC and CC accept the proposed agreement.
Good to Hear, the Ravens also find the arrangement acceptable.
I have verified that I did not leave out any contested worlds. Only a few of the worlds actually started out with two forces on the ground.
The FS does not see why it needs to give up Spica, however, would accept the agreement if Spica is removed.
The CC only agrees if the deal remains unchanged.
Brandi looked at the others with a face of mixed frustration and contentment, serenly she spoke, "We're down to one world. But, it's a very important world to both sides. The Federated Suns currently have the world, and was one of their greatest prizes to come out of the last round of conflicts beween them and the Capellans. The Capellans, I'm sure would like to see the return of many of their citizens."
Looking at the Federated Suns Director. "There is a Warship over this world blockading your forces, and the Red Lancers. One of the top Capellan units stands ready to push towards the world. Your claim to this world is solid but fleeting. Is there anything the Federated Suns could accept for the peaceful turn over of this world? Perhaps a split from the Capellan Salvage? Perhaps if they could cover the costs of some of your repairs?"
She looked at the Capellan representative. "I'm not promising anything on your behalf, just trying to initiate dialogue that might complete these proceedings." Then she looked back at the Director expectantly.
There are plenty of actions/payment we would accept from the CC in return for Spica, We just don't see why giving it up for free is in any way remotely close to our interests. We haven't heard an offer yet. only demands.
(edit: changed first person singlar to first person plural... The director is speaking for the FS)
Brandi nodded once and pursed her lips. "That's why I'm asking you, what do you want. Not every offer has to come from the other side of the table."
((OOC- this is the last OOC message in this thread. Swang, I don't know if that comment you made was IC or OOC, but considering that all talk to dropping hypothetical results has been OOC chatter, i'll assume you weren't talking OOC comments IC.
NO MORE OUT OF CHARACTER COMMENTS. After this post, everything in the thread is to be taken and treated as IC, even if flagged OOC, and the poster will have to live with the consequences))
CC Ambassador:
"I am not demanding anything Director. I am simply stating what the Confederation would see as acceptable to end the conflict between us. A few days ago, you were prepared to hand over Spica and Frazer, aswell as Bromhead, Hoarsham, and Kafr Silim. Now you have withdrawn all 5 worlds. We are certinly understanding that the Suns do not wish to lose more worlds, but I think perhaps the inclusion of Spica goes a long way to proving to the Chancellor that we have more to gain through peace, than through continuing our conflict."
(OOC: that was indeed IC, I'm going to post it again, expanded a little.)
I thought we were done talking about hypothetical combat? which is why we're not talking about Victoria, Harper, and New Samarkaand. Let's not open it up again by talking about Spica and the likelyhood of the FS keeping it?
Royce chuckled. "Aaaaand, he avoids answering the question again."
I would just like to mention that the offer of those 5 worlds is still on the table, as long as the CC is willing to make a separate peace. If the CC is not, then that is off the table.
Again, if you think that you are doing better by continuing the war, that is acceptable. However, you know, as well as the Combine, that even were the war to continue and the Capellan front continues to deteriorate (from the Federation's point of view), the Combine would be severely crippled. THAT IS WHY YOU ASKED FOR THIS MEETING. If you come in expecting to dictate terms, I simply don't know how we can come to an agreement.
Our initial offer was based upon the mis-statement from the Draconis Ambassador that they had a deal with the Ravens and that the Ravens were going to stand down. That offer is no longer there after the discovery of the mis-statement. That is why you had the reduced second offer. You don't want those worlds, thinking that will hurt your state, that's fine.
To restate. All 6 planets together we think is a wash. If you don't want that and make a separate peace, the only one we're willing to offer at this point is Manapire.
"WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING IN MY MEETING ROOM DIRECTOR COLLINS!" Brandi stared him down. "Let me try one more time here before you go tearing our progress apart." Bradi gave Royce a stern look. "And you behave yourself Mr. Avellar." She looked back at the Director, then to the others. "Mr. Avellar, you said that the Raven Alliance was preparing a tournament to coincide with the signing of a Peace Treaty?" Royce looked around suspiciously as the attention rested on him. "That was the plan. Not so sure about it now with the current situation." Brandi nodded. "How about another option. Would the Capellan Confederation and Federated Suns agree to fight for it? As part of this deal? We'll draw up two versions of the Peace Treaty and who evers champion wins gets control of Spica?"
(OOC: Sorry for using RP, but I don't know how much it would be in FS $)
As to Moderator Brandi's request, there are plenty of offers that we'd be willing to accept.
60 RP per year, for 5 years (basically, the economic output of Spica for the next 5 years)
or the compensatory repair of FS forces (up to a cap, say, 200 RP)
or the deeding over of equipment from an appropriate unit. (the 2nd St. Ive's lancers cost what? 180 RP?)
or we can trade Mencham for Spica, Frazer and Kafr Slim (if we're concerned about "straight" borders)
There are plenty of possibilities. As stated previously, we just don't see the value of giving up Spica for free.
Heck, If you're so interested in a straight line border, we're willing to offer everything up the Hadnell/Avigail, Jaipur, Taygeta line (including Spica, of course) for a separate peace and a 2 year peace treaty.
Ambassador Liao-Centrella took each of the Federated Suns offers in stride. "We are not taking your sick worlds Director. Out of your options, the best offer we would make is to make restitution to the FS for all units that are still around after our combat" (55 RP to cover the 55 FP in damages you currently have)
Erm, no, Ambassador, the cap would include units damaged in fighting against your ally as well.
And the full offer includes 20 some good worlds, and 5 bad ones. You easily come out ahead. but I understand that you are willing to hurt yourself to protect your ally, a most commendable attitude.
We are provisionally agreeable to the Champion idea, although something of that magnitude would definitely need to be approved by the home office.
Ambassador Liao-Centrella smirked. "The extensive repairs for the whole Federated Suns is well beyond anyones expendable funds budget." She tapped her fingers on the table. "I will check with my advisors about the possibility of maybe accepting the Champion match."
GM: I am willing to let this offer stand on the table until DK can respond further.
For now, it looks like this offer might be acceptable to all parties and provide some sport. I am pretty sure neither side would want to run this in Megamek.
Please start thinking about the name for your NPC Champion, Mech, and the bad things their going to do to the other side.
Mechs can be cannon custom, XTRO, use special ammo, but must belong to your faction.
If this option is agreed to by both sides, then I will talk to each faction on the side to formulate a list of mechs with G/P skills, to balance the match.
The champion / mech will not be revealed until the match comes up in game.
Ambassador Liao-Centrella rifled through the paper fascimiles the FS Director had slid over to her. Ambassador Wu(DC) was doing his level best to remain calm, although it was obvious to most that he was vastly displeased that the Federated Suns thought so little of the Combine, that they didn't even seem to think they were worth negotiating with.
Eventually Ambassador Liao-Centrella pushed the papers away with an exasperated sigh.
"I simply don't understand, Mr Director. First, you offer us a reasonable deal, based upon the Combine Ambassador's assuptions that the Ravens and the Combine can reach an agreement. You take this to mean the deal has been made. Once it's clear the deal ISN'T concrete, you withdraw your offer, and decide that belligerency is your charted course of negotiations.
Now, I've looked through your figures, and I'm confused. Either we pay you for Spica's production, making the world worthless; we repair your forces that are combating a different nation, despite attempting to achieve our separation as mutually interested parties; or else we consign an entire regiment of mechs to you, in exchange for a single world.
Now perhaps they teach it differently in Davion territory, but within the Confederation, one usually negotiates depending on relative strengths. You have made inroads to the Combine, although admittidly, only the Ravens have done so into the Combine proper, whereas your attacks have only hit previously FS worlds. Our forces have penetrated your first line of worlds, and secured all but 3 of them, only 1 of which is currently not threatened.
Perhaps you see it differently, but I would say your position is not one of making wild, outragious demands, based in fantasy imaginations of what could come to pass under perfect circumstances. Unless you make a serious offer, one not quite so insulting as your current list have been, we will have no choice but to assume that your wish is to put up a brave face for your people as they are assimilated into the Confederation.
We will await your answer, but I do think I need a break from this room for a bit. I sugest a brief recess for the good Director to contact the Capital, as he has already admited he has only limited authority, and apparently needs to have his limits and boundaries more clearly defined for him.
Brandi looked at the Ambassador with an emotionless espression. "There is an offer on the table. This would go a lot faster if each side would stop demanding that someone else make the proposals, answer the questions they were asked and stopped trying to stall by consulting with people NOT in this room!" Brandi knew the situation had reached a critical point, they'd come to an almost workable arrangement twice now and it did not look as if things broke down again there would be a third. "Now, the Draconis Combine and Raven Alliance have agreed to settle on the current terms, the Capellan Confederation and Federated Suns have each agreed to consider the arrangement with the stipulation that the final outcome of Spica be resolved thru one on one combat. You've gone off three times now to go talk to your other representatives and we need an answer, here and now. Will the Capellans and Federated Suns agree to this!?"
(The Turn 10 thread is up, we need resolution on this today.)
"The Capellan Confederation will not resolve this battle via single combat, as we are not Clan Capellan Confederation. Once more- the recent deal proposed by the Raven Alliance, and agreed to by the Combine, is the offer we are currently ready to accept."
The Federated Suns is not willing to accept the Raven Alliance proposal, as has already been stated several times. We don't see the point of giving over Spica for free.
Royce looked at the others. "The Raven Alliance only agreed to a deal that included a fair option for resolving Spica, a.k.a. the tournament. You act as though the Clans invented trial by combat. I'm quite put out by your prejudices for our 'other half's tendencies. There much to be said for the strength of a Great House, apparently the ability to realize when your at an impass and think outside the boxes are not one of them."
(ooc: This is delivered as a note to Moderator Brandi)
Moderator Brandi,
Once again, you are mistaken. It was obvious that the Capellan Confederation wanted Spica for free and was not willing to pay for it. You insisted that we offer reasonable compensation requests. This we did because we trust you as a moderator to perhaps have an understanding of the state of the negotiators and perhaps had more information than we do.
Instead, we are wasting time and coming back to the same tired points.
Apparently, you do not have as deep an understanding of the state of the negotiations as we were lead to believe. We would like for you to be more restrained in your requests. Another mistake like that and we would be forced to conclude that your impartiality is compromised and ask the SHAFT HQ for another moderator.
(ooc: Sorry, I have no idea whether Brandi is from SHAFT or Terra, I'm assuming SHAFT)
"I believe the point of these negotiations was to come to an agreement that didn't involve fighting. Well, if the Federated Suns will only give up a single contested world, I see no reason the Draconis Combine should give up two of them. Perhaps my esteemed Combine colleuge has an opinion on that?"
Wu cleared his throat. "If the Federated Suns will not give up two of their threatened worlds, neither shall we. Choose your poison, Mr. Director- Wapokoneta or Cassius. You only get one if you refuse to hand over Spica to the Capellans."
Did we not just get a so wonderful lesson in negotiating from Strength from your very own ally? What is the point of all these misdirections? If you gentleman wish to continue the war, just say so and we'll go back to the drawing board.
We will, of course, be cognizant of your negotiating stance the next time that you call fora meeting to waste time.
And once again, Spica is not a threatened world. There is no combat on the planet. The Capellans have not landed.
There is a vast difference bewtween that and Wapokoneta and Cassias, where both combats are active and in their final phases.
Wu: "You may say that as loud as you wish, but I am not conjecturing on the outcome of any battle. You may believe your forces to be far superior if you wish. It doesn't matter. You will only ceed a single threatened world, and so will we. Neither the Capellan Ambassador, nor I, have made any mention of the outcomes of the battles that have been brought to a halt during these negotiations. They are unimportant. And if you feel that a premiere mech regiment hovering over a world doesn't make it threatened, you would be a fool.
You have your options, Mr Director. You can accept the facts as they are, and move forewards, or you can sit back and re-start the war. You are the one who chooses to be unreasonable, Mr Director, twisting facts and looking at situations through a one-way filter, that apparently tells you that the FS is the one who is winning this war.
Choose- either you give up Spica and get both worlds you covet, or you keep Spica, and get a single contested world of mine."
SHAFT is the Military arm of the Republic of the Sphere, hence they control Terra as well.
Brandi shrugged her shoulders. " You are running out of options. You want to nit-pik with me over this option I proposed? Fine. It's off the table, but remember, I'm here to help. I'm here to moderate, not arbitrate. You guys can go back to killing each other at any time, and I'll be fine with that." She looked over at Ambassador Wu. "I'm starting with you, because your the one that initiated these dialogues. What is going to happen if you cannot agree to a peaceful accord."
Wu shrugged his shoulders. "The Draconis Combine does not wish to persue further conflict, and we didn't want this war in the first place. The Federated Suns attacked our forces, we only moved military units into the area to prevent exactly this type of debacle. We claimed what should be rights have been ours from the start, not under some aegis of flimsy negotiations with the Suns. I see now why the Coordinator lost patience with those negotiations.
If possible, I shall seek to end the war through peace. If that is not possible, then we shall have to weather the storm of the Suns' bloodlust untill they can no longer support the conflict. Or else perhaps the Suns will eventually come to their senses and end this war of theirs. Either way, we might have had a minor part in causing this war, but the Davions are the ones who do not wish for it to end."
Excuse me? you basically just said: We didn't want this war in the first place, we just started it.
Erm, what? I'm not sure I understand you.
"Director Collins, I did not call on you yet. Please wait your turn." Brandi continued. "It has always been the position of the Draconis Combine that their acquisition of the contested region between the Draconis Combine was the final resolution of their invasion." She looked back at Ambassador Wu, "and yes, even if it was done bloodlessly because the Federated Suns had left no forces in the region to back their claim, your nation sent troops to acquire the Federated Suns settlements. That is an invasion." She looked back at Director Collins, "Which was immediately responded to by your Prince in what the Combine feels was a seperate invasion. These are facts that are obviously in contension but irrelevant. The worlds that are not part of this active conflict should not be on our docket, but the threat of force on several of these worlds has indeed brought them to the table. I've tried to avoid the 'what if' scenarios, but they do keep creeping up." She looked back at Wu. "The Federated Suns quite clearly declared their intentions at the resolution of your absorption of the contested worlds and their intentions to get them back," She looked at Royce, "Thru any means necessary."
"Now, everyone here, I remind you that any proposal here that has not been agreed upon, is likewise irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the resolution we can agree upon, so the previous contested proposals mean nothing and should not be used as a basis for further negotiations!" Brandi paused, "Now, Ambassador Wu, we appreciate yours and the Coordinators patience at these negotiations, but the alternative is the same as it was, a lot of people die. That is the one thing I'm still trying to prevent. I have no current proposal. Would YOU as the initiator of these talks, please issue whatever proposal is truly in your heart and that YOU think can be agreed upon, knowing what you know and why."
Ambassador Wu sighed, and seemed to be quite unhappy with his next statement.
"I do not believe I can offer such an agreement, as what the Combine itself feels to be fair, will likly not jive with what the Federated Suns believes to be fair. We simply have different interpretations of the term 'fairness'. The Combine feels that if it is to relinquish control of worlds that are threatened, but not yet conquered, the Federated Suns should balance that equation. Regardless of the progression of the conflicts, or the chances of success or failure, the simple fact is that at this moment, the contested worlds are exactly that- contested. Neither side can claim actual authority.
So I will make the Federated Sons 2 offers, and they may choose which suits them better. First, however, I offer terms that have thus far not been the center of the problem.
(DC/CC Offer):
-CC retains all salvage from it's conflicts against the FS, contested worlds included.
-DC retains 50% of salvage from all conflicts against FS and RA forces on contested worlds. FS and RA retain all salvage on worlds which they have successfully taken from DC forces(as in zero(0) DC defenders present in system, or on planet). DC retains all salvage on worlds where FS/RA forces have been completely repelled from the surface
-FS forces withdraw from Dobson+Breed
-FS forces withdraw from Victoria
-RA forces withdraw from New Samarkand
-Draconis Combine and Raven Alliance enter separate, private, negotiations concerning Chirala and Koulen
-Draconis Combine will send a unit to represent it at the Raven Alliance tournament
-Federated Suns will send a unit to represent it at the Raven Alliance tournament
(DC/CC Territorial Option #1):
-Federated Suns match Draconis Combine 1:1, in threatened worlds relinquished to aggressor
-Federated Suns want Wapakoneta, Cassius, Dobson, Breed
-Capellan Confederation wants Manapire, Spica, Frazer, Courcellete
-Any other worlds the FS wishes to acquire without fighting must be matched by worlds relinquished to either DC or CC*
*Stipulations: must be border worlds; cannot currently(as of T9) have military forces from aggressor present(i.e., FS couldn't request Dobson/Breed); toxic worlds may not be traded in this fashion; defender chooses worlds it will receive upon relinquishing others(i.e. if FS wishes to acquire a world from the DC, the DC get to choose the world they will receive in compensation; FS MUST agree, or give up claim to world); these stipulations go both ways. worlds already named in this offer can only be traded for other worlds named in this offer
(DC/CC Territorial Option #2):
-All conflict ends immediately. Worlds that have been conquered stay in their new masters' hands*. All invading forces must withdraw from contested worlds, unless negotiated on a case-by-case basis, after the initial armistice is signed.
*Raven Alliance and Draconis Combine will still enter separate negotiations concerning Koulen and Chirala*
Brandi looked quite pleased. "Thank you Ambassador for expanding the options to being fair and includes options." She looked at Director Collins. "I personally feel at least two of these options have merit." She looked back at the Ambassador, "As the moderator I will refrain from saying which two." She looked back at the Director. "Area any of these proposals amicable to the Federated Suns?"
GM: I regret that a resolution could not be mutually agreed upon, but for the sake of the game, we must move on. The first deal offered by the DC will be put into effect.
-CC retains all salvage from it's conflicts against the FS, contested worlds included.
-DC retains 50% of salvage from all conflicts against FS and RA forces on contested worlds. FS and RA retain all salvage on worlds which they have successfully taken from DC forces(as in zero(0) DC defenders present in system, or on planet). DC retains all salvage on worlds where FS/RA forces have been completely repelled from the surface
-FS forces withdraw from Dobson+Breed
-FS forces withdraw from Victoria
-RA forces withdraw from New Samarkand
-Draconis Combine and Raven Alliance enter separate, private, negotiations concerning Chirala and Koulen
-Draconis Combine will send a unit to represent it at the Raven Alliance tournament
-Federated Suns will send a unit to represent it at the Raven Alliance tournament
The Cease Fire will remain in place for 3 additional turns and there will be a Loss of PS for anyone who breaks it.