This thread is for out of character(OOC) disscussion related directly to the FGC91 game. Any/all information posted here is NOT to be used for in game purposes. If it is found to have been, it is considered metagaming, and thus cheating.
Consider yourselves warned.
Purely out of curiousity, has it been decided who the Elected Prince of Rasalhague is in this era? Did Rolf Magnusson succeed his father, or is someone else on the throne? Did Rolf marry Lotta Rudbeck? Did her not-named ancestry get out, and if so did things end badly for her?
Just curious about the future of my former faction.
Where to post Map Corrections?
IS, Deia 1814 needs an IC, and New Caledonia is sadly not CIH property anymore.. :( (It is Snow Raven)
also, those changes of the big jump, are they not happening or does a new map come up with it? Or how will that be solved?
The merger of the Falcons with the Lyrans will cause a major rumble I guess and certainly some shifting lines.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 04, 2011, 07:05:02 AM
Purely out of curiousity, has it been decided who the Elected Prince of Rasalhague is in this era? Did Rolf Magnusson succeed his father, or is someone else on the throne? Did Rolf marry Lotta Rudbeck? Did her not-named ancestry get out, and if so did things end badly for her?
Just curious about the future of my former faction.
Personally, I just want to know if Yvonne finally got married and had an heir to the throne.
Quote from: Marlin on May 07, 2011, 04:26:49 PM
Where to post Map Corrections?
IS, Deia 1814 needs an IC, and New Caledonia is sadly not CIH property anymore.. :( (It is Snow Raven)
also, those changes of the big jump, are they not happening or does a new map come up with it? Or how will that be solved?
The merger of the Falcons with the Lyrans will cause a major rumble I guess and certainly some shifting lines.
Map corrections should be handled as they always have been, in orders submission emails to the GM account. The map availible via DR's email is not the final map(according to him), so don't get to upset. I'll make a temp sticky thread for map updates that'll be locked/hidden after the game starts.
As for Yvonne, I've been toying with that idea, but I don't know enough about her love interests other than taking the easy way out and having her and Tancred get together.
Dave, can you setup a new account for the 3090 game, so that when people send PMs there, it shows up in the GM's PM Board, like with the old game?
Yeah, give me a second and I'll take care of it.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 08, 2011, 07:27:25 AM
Yeah, give me a second and I'll take care of it.
OK, all set. The new ticket account is
FC91GM.
Yeah, taking one look at the map I was like. This can't be it :P Let us know which map to be going off of so that we don't give redundant info.
Okay Folks the map that I issued to those who asked is the T46 final. I will be getting with Chaos to ensure a T47 map is completed so you will be able to do nice shiny new sheets for the actual t47 orders. Post update requests above and ensure a copy of them is sent to the new GM account for 3091. The marians and Blood Spirits need players so if you know anyone willing to take a stab at running a faction please point them here to look things over and drop me a PM if they want to play. If they want to sencond seat a faction they may as long as it is not the RasDom since they have 3 players listed.
Also people.
Remember map updates should be clear. Concise and to the point.
Think of what you have been reporting on your sheets and then do that exactly with no deviation. :-)
QuoteIf they want to sencond seat a faction they may as long as it is not the RasDom since they have 3 players listed.
Aff, one for each member of the Tribunal and the province they represent ;)
Could some point me to, or post, the formula for figuring out WS construction costs?
Also, I understand that 1RP builds approximately 1FP of Medium Mechs, just not sure if that`s for a Trinary or Cluster, and if there`s a modifier if said Trinary/Cluster is other than Med...ie, would a Heavy/ Assault Trinary/Cluster effectively cost more and would a Light be cheaper/or effectively grant you more (ie, 1RP = 1 Light Trinary/Cluster + another Light Binary for example)
The construction rules havn't changed, and they're in the Rules Thread. For the IS, 1 FP = 1 Medium Mech Company(Regular). A Heavy or Assault Company is higher FP, Lights are lower. For each FP being built, you must spend 1 RP.
For warships, non LF ships take their FP x 6 = RP cost AND production capacity(ie how many 'points' of your shipyard capacity are taken to build the ship). LF battery warships use FP x 10, but otherwise follows the same rules(except they produce a bit more MP, and can move a smidge further).
Quote from: GraeGor on May 11, 2011, 05:35:31 AM
Could some point me to, or post, the formula for figuring out WS construction costs?
Also, I understand that 1RP builds approximately 1FP of Medium Mechs, just not sure if that`s for a Trinary or Cluster, and if there`s a modifier if said Trinary/Cluster is other than Med...ie, would a Heavy/ Assault Trinary/Cluster effectively cost more and would a Light be cheaper/or effectively grant you more (ie, 1RP = 1 Light Trinary/Cluster + another Light Binary for example)
if a light IS company is 1RP that same 1RP will buy you a binary of lights. The rules as Daemonknight has noted...have not changed. check the rules thread for details.
Quote from: GraeGor on May 11, 2011, 05:35:31 AM
Also, I understand that 1RP builds approximately 1FP of Medium Mechs, just not sure if that`s for a Trinary or Cluster, and if there`s a modifier if said Trinary/Cluster is other than Med...ie, would a Heavy/ Assault Trinary/Cluster effectively cost more and would a Light be cheaper/or effectively grant you more (ie, 1RP = 1 Light Trinary/Cluster + another Light Binary for example)
The following is what I created for myself to figure our FP use for Megamek engagement. One of the first errors you're working from is that 1 RP get's you 1 Light Binary, not a Medium.
oops
I was going off this from the rules thread
QuoteForce Points
One Force Point (FP) of ground forces is approximately equivalent to one company of Inner Sphere Standard Medium 'Mechs.
I concluded that one IS company was roughly equal to a binary (yeah, had that mixed up), and presumed that medium was medium regardless of tech base
and still looking at that particular post I get moderately confused the further down I read
I did my units always by thumb. If there is a Cluster at 10 FP, there can still be one at 15 or even more. Less FP means either missing strength or very weak units (BV-wise). Example, a pure Infantry Cluster would be close to zero :D. A Vehicle Cluster with heavy and high-BV vehicles can climb over 20 FP, depending on how many units you want. There is no real hard rule on the limit other than common sense and the above mentioned 1 FP=1 Company thing.
If anyone is looking for a backup to help run a faction, feel free to shoot me a PM.
Got a question about the NewGrange (and other Yardships)
In the rules, you have to pay for extra 48 FP. It is written like this. FP. Now, how do I depict it in the Sheet? The base cost is 1.75 for a NewGrange, does it get the 48 as well?
Or just the 1.75 FP?
just the 1.75, you're paying for the shipyard inside the warship, but it's combat value doesn't increase
ok. Could you modify the rules then to depict that clearer?
It reads quite confusing.
*points at DR*
He's the GM, I just work here
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 11, 2011, 06:32:00 PM
*points at DR*
He's the GM, I just work here
[On behalf of DR6]
The cracking of a whip. "Back to work, serf!"
:)
Help! HELP!!! I'm being repressed!
I'll post a clairifaction of the FP value in the rules thread but for information purposes a Company of mechs is approximately equal to a binary of clan units of the same weight.
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 11, 2011, 06:32:00 PM
*points at DR*
He's the GM, I just work here
Lemme fix that Daemon...."I just
work LIVE here"....I'm just kidding of course but you have the time that even I do not. Your work here has not gone unnoticed. I appreciate all that you have been doing.
No worries. I happen to be the only unemployed person on the boards who has a valid excuse not to go looking ;)
Just to make sure Im somewhat understanding the Construction: 1RP builds 1FP of a Medium Mech Formation. an Elite Medium Formation would equate to a cost of 1.5RP. an Assault Formation costs 1.75RP and an Elite Assault would 3.25RP (1.5 for Elite + 1.75 Assault, equals modfier of 3.25 to Base 1FP/RP??)
You cannot build Veteran or Elite formations, the only way to get them is to train an existing unit. This applies to Warships aswell, and veterancy cannot be traded between units/warships.
Okay, so here is an example of building a Cluster:
1 Assault Mech Trinary(3 FP)
2 Heavy Mech Binaries(3.5 FP)
1 Light Mech Trinary(1.5 FP)
1 Clan BA Trinary(.5 FP)
Total FP strength: 8.5
So, it would cost 8.5 FP to build this Cluster. There's a nice little table in the rules that breaks this all down, by Tech Level, Weight Class, AND Formation. This Cluster would be Regular, because its just been built. If it gets into combat and survives(ie isn't reduced to 0 FP), it can be Trained to Veteran within 6 turns. Once it has become Veteran, if it survives 3 combats within a 6 turn time frame, it can be trained to Elite. Nothing can currently be trained higher than Elite.
A LFB Warship:
Aegis(Clan) is 11.75 FP. Because it has an LF Battery, it costs FPx10 to construct the warship(that's RP AND Construction Capacity). So to build that Aegis, you need 117.5RP, AND 118 Shipyard Capacity(118/3= 40 SYs to build in one turn, or multiple turns). If you added 10 FP of dropships and ASF to that warship, it would cost an additional 100rp + SY capacity(all FP marked as LFB Mobile has its costs multiplied by 10). You don't pay the multiplier on repairs to the warship itself. The ASF, once destroyed, must be replaced, and so those still incur the multiplier to replace.
A non-LFB Warship:
Mjolnir is 18.75 FP. No LFB, so it costs FPx6 to construct the warship. Mjolnirs therefore cost me 112.5 RP and SY Capacity. As before, adding ASF/Dropships incurs the x6 multiplier.
A Newgrange(because Marlin had the question before):
Because the Newgrange is essentially a SY inside of a Warship hull, you take the FP of the Newgrange itself(1.75 FP) + the SY cost(48) and multiply it by 6(non-LFB). 1.75 + 48= 49.75 * 6= 298.5fp to construct a Newgrange. ASF/Dropships added to a Newgrange follow the usual x6 cost to build and replace.
Its the exact same construction rules as 62, nothing has changed.
I guess it might be a little confusing if your trying to buy trinaries when the rules have them broken down by Binaries, but like DK did, for a trinary, you add half again, which only doesn't break down if your getting things that only cost .25 like infantry.
I posted the bidding chart I made because it helps explain the value of a force. Remember, battle value has nothing to do with points for ground units in this game. A binary of Dire Wolve Widowmakers would be the same cost and value as a Binary of Gargoyle Primes.
Still, it's considered bad form to munch out, but it happens in games like this. A match up should still represent the intent of the battle your in. It's not all about winning. 8)
ASF was by far worse, before the tables.
I have 10fp. You wont know if that's Avars or Jenghiz untill you MA it, mwuhahaha!
yeah, but the formula was constant, 15000 BV = 1 FP and for the longest time went off of BV1 instead of BV2, I think it was pretty well balanced and I liked that we had our forces listed out ahead of time explaing how we came up with our BV's. ;) I miss the old Squadron Features of the original MegaAero when it was it's own game. You could load up as many fighters as you wanted in a squadron. The fact that Squadrons now have a max of 6 means that everyone pretty much uses the 6 formation to make things fair. While Comstar, WoB and FWL should be the only ones using the 6 formations, everyone else was using them so they could have more units then clanners in a group, so we started breaking up our trinary fighters into 5 groups of 6 instead of 6 groups of 5.
yeah. either way, its all easy now- 1 FP is still 15000BV, but it doesn't really matter because you build off your tables, u can't just just say "meh, I'm building 10fp of random fighters" without breaking the naval tab. I suppose you could for ground forces though.
((nods)) I have Aero in almost all of my Ground units and some that are nothing but Aero. While I have their BV calced out by the 15000 to 1 system, I don't have them listed off the chart, because they're ground units.
Did anyone keep a copy of the dates for submission of the reset orders? And how are said reset orders supposed to be submitted? By the normal spreadsheet, or as a summary of expenditure/designs chosen? Thanks.
Tomorrow (15th) would be the Preliminary sheet (with the spending of the jump RP) to be sent in.
The other I think a week later.
One question that would be interesting for several Factions (Clans) That project looking for the Scientist base, would that be successful during the jump?
If there had been more time, we would have found them as there would even have been RP background for traversing that hex many times.
Or would that conflict just be gone like the Traitor Clans?
What about the Odessa Hex and its treasures? :P
All will come to pass. With the soft reset somethings will change others will stay the same.
well, got the prestart CSA/SAC Orders in...hopefully close to correct
YUSS!! I'm BAAACK!!
for an evening, anyway. Sent the "Spending" sheets in, now I gotta actually start placing shit for turn 1.
Oh, and to those who have deals pending with either the Capcon or UIW, um, I've got some time now, but I may have forgotten something. shoot me a PM?
HA and MoC pre-start spend orders are in.
Just a note. The prestart orders are due today and the Turn one orders are due the 21st. There is a little flex time built in so I can check sheets and get adjustments in. The map will probably need to be gone over with a fine toothed comb and I will try and make sure it is out by the end of the week but that will depend on if I can catch Chaos long enough this week to have it done.
I know what my starting package is, but what was the other things I needed to get done? The other OOC thread has gone missing it appears.
Quote from: GreyJaeger on May 16, 2011, 12:28:27 PM
I know what my starting package is, but what was the other things I needed to get done? The other OOC thread has gone missing it appears.
Pick 10 new designs (no Warship designs) for the DC, from TROs 3075 or 3085.
Choose 5 infrastructure projects.
Give half your starting package to the Magistracy!!
Thanks
Hey parm, is it okay if the FS sends its Magistracy tribute in the form of armed, impact-fused nuclear warheads? and by 'send', I mean drop from the top of planetary gravity wells??
:P
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 16, 2011, 01:21:30 PM
Hey parm, is it okay if the FS sends its Magistracy tribute in the form of armed, impact-fused nuclear warheads? and by 'send', I mean drop from the top of planetary gravity wells??
:P
For sure... it will make good target practise for my
Invictus class.
Renaming warship classifications now are we? Impavidos?
What are the current statuses of Comms providers? It is not listed in the Rules section is why I ask.
And also, Upgrading Comms is Infra? Or No? For purposes of the 5 Infra Projects
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 16, 2011, 01:37:10 PM
Renaming warship classifications now are we? Impavidos?
:-X
I'm hesitant to dig up the rules, because i don't know that we ever fully switched from the old to the new. Let DR get on that before I actually post the rules, okay? I know that the only way to have Provider status is to run your own IC network(meaning minimum of 2 ICs). Last I knew, the only factions capable of doing so are the Clans, Comstar, the FWL and the FS.
The issue becomes this; the only way to gain Provider Status is to operate your own ICs. The only way to build/operate ICs is to be a Provider. The new rules took out the research rules that the FWL was persuing to gain Provider status, while the FS used its Intel Tokens to buy 2 ICs, and thus was granted a form of 'free' breakthrough(the FWL had to do this aswell, because under the old rules, they couldn't build ICs yet either).
So your communications options are ComStar, a Clan, or the Federated Suns(the FWL is a few hexes to far for them to establish an HPG link, so they're unavailible to you).
Quote from: Parmenion on May 16, 2011, 01:49:20 PM
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 16, 2011, 01:37:10 PM
Renaming warship classifications now are we? Impavidos?
:-X
thats not funny in the least actually, because we were specificlly told no warships designs allowed- not case-by-case, but simply not allowed. And theres been no rules for custom designs either.
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 16, 2011, 01:54:04 PM
I'm hesitant to dig up the rules, because i don't know that we ever fully switched from the old to the new. Let DR get on that before I actually post the rules, okay? I know that the only way to have Provider status is to run your own IC network(meaning minimum of 2 ICs). Last I knew, the only factions capable of doing so are the Clans, Comstar, the FWL and the FS.
The issue becomes this; the only way to gain Provider Status is to operate your own ICs. The only way to build/operate ICs is to be a Provider. The new rules took out the research rules that the FWL was persuing to gain Provider status, while the FS used its Intel Tokens to buy 2 ICs, and thus was granted a form of 'free' breakthrough(the FWL had to do this aswell, because under the old rules, they couldn't build ICs yet either).
So your communications options are ComStar, a Clan, or the Federated Suns(the FWL is a few hexes to far for them to establish an HPG link, so they're unavailible to you).
Was just asking, but the other issue was what status was the DC as far as Black Box Providers.
Nothing to see here....
QuoteJust a note. The prestart orders are due today and the Turn one orders are due the 21st. There is a little flex time built in so I can check sheets and get adjustments in. The map will probably need to be gone over with a fine toothed comb and I will try and make sure it is out by the end of the week but that will depend on if I can catch Chaos long enough this week to have it done.
I was still waiting on some pending resolution from the GM's regarding tech availabilty for our new designs.
QuoteLast I knew, the only factions capable of doing so are the Clans, Comstar, the FWL and the FS.
The FS becoming a Prodiver is a new thing to me, and I ran them :P I know the FS helped out some Precenters, but this absorptions of Comstar's legal rights is getting pathetic. I'm starting to feel that the WoB was a good idea...
Quote from: GreyJaeger on May 16, 2011, 02:01:28 PM
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 16, 2011, 01:54:04 PM
I'm hesitant to dig up the rules, because i don't know that we ever fully switched from the old to the new. Let DR get on that before I actually post the rules, okay? I know that the only way to have Provider status is to run your own IC network(meaning minimum of 2 ICs). Last I knew, the only factions capable of doing so are the Clans, Comstar, the FWL and the FS.
The issue becomes this; the only way to gain Provider Status is to operate your own ICs. The only way to build/operate ICs is to be a Provider. The new rules took out the research rules that the FWL was persuing to gain Provider status, while the FS used its Intel Tokens to buy 2 ICs, and thus was granted a form of 'free' breakthrough(the FWL had to do this aswell, because under the old rules, they couldn't build ICs yet either).
So your communications options are ComStar, a Clan, or the Federated Suns(the FWL is a few hexes to far for them to establish an HPG link, so they're unavailible to you).
Was just asking, but the other issue was what status was the DC as far as Black Box Providers.
Unless I am insane and just imagining this, DC achieve primary provider status for Blackbox via an R&D roll during the '62 campaign.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 16, 2011, 06:44:51 PM
Quote from: GreyJaeger on May 16, 2011, 02:01:28 PM
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 16, 2011, 01:54:04 PM
I'm hesitant to dig up the rules, because i don't know that we ever fully switched from the old to the new. Let DR get on that before I actually post the rules, okay? I know that the only way to have Provider status is to run your own IC network(meaning minimum of 2 ICs). Last I knew, the only factions capable of doing so are the Clans, Comstar, the FWL and the FS.
The issue becomes this; the only way to gain Provider Status is to operate your own ICs. The only way to build/operate ICs is to be a Provider. The new rules took out the research rules that the FWL was persuing to gain Provider status, while the FS used its Intel Tokens to buy 2 ICs, and thus was granted a form of 'free' breakthrough(the FWL had to do this aswell, because under the old rules, they couldn't build ICs yet either).
So your communications options are ComStar, a Clan, or the Federated Suns(the FWL is a few hexes to far for them to establish an HPG link, so they're unavailible to you).
Was just asking, but the other issue was what status was the DC as far as Black Box Providers.
Unless I am insane and just imagining this, DC achieve primary provider status for Blackbox via an R&D roll during the '62 campaign.
I know the DC has a BBF, so I know we are high enough for that. Hopefully Holt will pop in.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 16, 2011, 12:41:18 PM
Quote from: GreyJaeger on May 16, 2011, 12:28:27 PM
I know what my starting package is, but what was the other things I needed to get done? The other OOC thread has gone missing it appears.
Pick 10 new designs (no Warship designs) for the DC, from TROs 3075 or 3085.
Choose 5 infrastructure projects.
Give half your starting package to the Magistracy!!
Yep that is correct.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 16, 2011, 06:44:51 PM
Quote from: GreyJaeger on May 16, 2011, 02:01:28 PM
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 16, 2011, 01:54:04 PM
I'm hesitant to dig up the rules, because i don't know that we ever fully switched from the old to the new. Let DR get on that before I actually post the rules, okay? I know that the only way to have Provider status is to run your own IC network(meaning minimum of 2 ICs). Last I knew, the only factions capable of doing so are the Clans, Comstar, the FWL and the FS.
The issue becomes this; the only way to gain Provider Status is to operate your own ICs. The only way to build/operate ICs is to be a Provider. The new rules took out the research rules that the FWL was persuing to gain Provider status, while the FS used its Intel Tokens to buy 2 ICs, and thus was granted a form of 'free' breakthrough(the FWL had to do this aswell, because under the old rules, they couldn't build ICs yet either).
So your communications options are ComStar, a Clan, or the Federated Suns(the FWL is a few hexes to far for them to establish an HPG link, so they're unavailible to you).
Was just asking, but the other issue was what status was the DC as far as Black Box Providers.
Unless I am insane and just imagining this, DC achieve primary provider status for Blackbox via an R&D roll during the '62 campaign.
Last time I checked that was the case Dave.
Quote from: Deathrider6 on May 17, 2011, 03:00:24 AM
Quote from: Parmenion on May 16, 2011, 12:41:18 PM
Quote from: GreyJaeger on May 16, 2011, 12:28:27 PM
I know what my starting package is, but what was the other things I needed to get done? The other OOC thread has gone missing it appears.
Pick 10 new designs (no Warship designs) for the DC, from TROs 3075 or 3085.
Choose 5 infrastructure projects.
Give half your starting package to the Magistracy!!
Yep that is correct.
I guess I misread that part then. I don't recall having to give money to the Magistracy :P
he he he. Seriously though. I thought it was 10 designs from 85, 5 designs from 75. I missed the whole infrastructure build all together :P
I am still waiting for GM responses to my Tech questions before submitting my pre-start package.
Just a drive by mumbling that there is no one who wants to pick up the SLDF or the former pieces of the Wolves to cause havoc and trouble with. *sigh*
Quote from: NVA on May 17, 2011, 06:43:17 PM
Just a drive by mumbling that there is no one who wants to pick up the SLDF or the former pieces of the Wolves to cause havoc and trouble with. *sigh*
Oh I do. But they are strangely refusing Atreus's call to settle in the Free Worlds League under the signature of First Lord Marik.
Cheeky bunch keep insisting he isn't the First Lord.
Uh huh...
Quote from: Fatebringer on May 17, 2011, 01:31:38 PM
Quote from: Deathrider6 on May 17, 2011, 03:00:24 AM
Quote from: Parmenion on May 16, 2011, 12:41:18 PM
Quote from: GreyJaeger on May 16, 2011, 12:28:27 PM
I know what my starting package is, but what was the other things I needed to get done? The other OOC thread has gone missing it appears.
Pick 10 new designs (no Warship designs) for the DC, from TROs 3075 or 3085.
Choose 5 infrastructure projects.
Give half your starting package to the Magistracy!!
Yep that is correct.
I guess I misread that part then. I don't recall having to give money to the Magistracy :P
he he he. Seriously though. I thought it was 10 designs from 85, 5 designs from 75. I missed the whole infrastructure build all together :P
'sallright, I don't HAVE TRO 3075 or TRO 3085, so I end up in the position of basically relying on someone else for that, or just leaving it lay a while and doing the stuff I DO have books for-like the infra builds.
The TRO wiki`s are what I used to pick designs...hard part was figuring out whether had access or not...guess I`ll find out soon enough if choices are allowed
Quote from: NVA on May 17, 2011, 06:43:17 PM
Just a drive by mumbling that there is no one who wants to pick up the SLDF or the former pieces of the Wolves to cause havoc and trouble with. *sigh*
Well, I offered to help with the SLDF part, but DR6 has them under his wing I believe. Be very interesting what sort of condition they are in following the re-set.
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 17, 2011, 01:35:10 AM
December 23rd, 3090
Arluna, MacAuliffe Ranch
"Archduchess, may I present Field Marshal John Christian Falkenberg, aide to the First Prince, and commander of the Davion Brigade of Guards. John, this is Archduchess Debrah...
LOL. I claim precedence though, as the MAF has had the 42nd Falkenberg Legion on it's rolls since around 3068.
I think you and I, DK, read far too many of the same books!
:)
Quote from: GraeGor on May 18, 2011, 10:02:56 AM
The TRO wiki`s are what I used to pick designs...hard part was figuring out whether had access or not...guess I`ll find out soon enough if choices are allowed
Aff, Sarna Wiki has the listing of what's in them, you can use a combination of the fluff there and Megamek to see what the mech looks like. Version 35.23 included the stuff from 3085 including the supliments, so we can see our Deimos' now XD
Quote from: Parmenion on May 18, 2011, 01:06:32 PM
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 17, 2011, 01:35:10 AM
December 23rd, 3090
Arluna, MacAuliffe Ranch
"Archduchess, may I present Field Marshal John Christian Falkenberg, aide to the First Prince, and commander of the Davion Brigade of Guards. John, this is Archduchess Debrah...
LOL. I claim precedence though, as the MAF has had the 42nd Falkenberg Legion on it's rolls since around 3068.
I think you and I, DK, read far too many of the same books!
:)
Damn you Parm! Hmm...no Generals named Raj Whitehall are there? :P I notice thats your CBT name, but i want one of them first!!
Seeing the Shark's Infra Update I wonder: was IC building not prohibited in the HWs?
Also, Holt, I sent some messages to the Sharks time ago, did you receive that and chose to not answer or did you get nothing? Would like to know if I do it for nought or if there is something to do.
Infra building in the HWs is prohibited, always has been.
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 18, 2011, 07:13:14 PM
Infra building in the HWs is prohibited, always has been.
It is strongly discouraged not prohibited. It does not make a lot of sense to build Infra in a zone that is at this time closed. Once there are enough players present the HW will reopen but until that point infrastructure improvements should be built in the playable zones only. On a another note if you have units in the HW post restart that's where they remain. If you need to move them it takes 12 turns (6turns via LFB) to get them to the IS. It is expected that garrison forces will be in the HW zone as well as very limited new Hex improvements. Any faction using the HW to shield infra will be dealt with.
Ah, never really grasped that, but thankfully my Infra stationing is not in yet. I just meant specifically the ICs, though. But thanks for that heads up again.
The rest of my planning would go to PM to check if its ok. Guess I gotta reschedule something then.
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 16, 2011, 01:54:04 PM
So your communications options are ComStar, a Clan, or the Federated Suns(the FWL is a few hexes to far for them to establish an HPG link, so they're unavailible to you).
I'm a little unclear on this, as I'm not entirely up to date. Did the Word of Blake bite the dust as both a provider and a faction? The Marians once had a relationship with the WoB, and I'm trying to determine whether it underwent the kind of messy break up during FC62 that might result, for instance, in a neutron bomb detonating in Caesar's bowl of breakfast cereal.
We could always build some one a comm's system.
;D
Yes, the WoB were eliminated as a faction and provider. Elements of the WoB might have returned to the fold of ComStar, but for all intents and purposes, WoB's remmnants are fugitives, running from the Clans, and probably ComStar aswell.
It is so much still unclear. :(
The Cats would be interested, for example, what happened to those that stayed with the Hegemony, the olde Nova Cats. Would they be dead? Would they still cling to whatever planet they were on?
Etc.
Quote from: Marlin on May 19, 2011, 06:09:01 PM
It is so much still unclear. :(
The Cats would be interested, for example, what happened to those that stayed with the Hegemony, the olde Nova Cats. Would they be dead? Would they still cling to whatever planet they were on?
Etc.
Probably depends on whether they sided with the Wolf Dragoons or if they sided with the Master when everything hit the fan... though DR6 would be the man with the answers :)
Hhhmmm, I was trying to do something about my PM Box. It doesn't work like Email. I started creating new Labels, but they're not true folders. I labeled stuff, it moved to that label, but stayed in the inbox. If I deleted it from the inbox, it deleted it from the label. :P I guess it really doesn't matter that I have well over 100 pages of PM's :P
PMs are a cruel mistress. I've been gone for months and I'm on page 95 :o
I prune mine every other month or so, else its grows so large i can't find anything.
As for the dragoons, Dave you should know their position on the cats :)
A cat walked into the Goons hiring office, and after hearing him out, the hiring officer had him escorted to a 'waiting' room while ROM was notified of his presence. Wolfnet was in no way responsible for any bruising or injections he might have sustained. Fell down some stairs most likly. Into a medical cart...
yeah. thats what happened. Wolf does not like kittys. Actually i think that was a Spirit Cat, haha :P
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 19, 2011, 06:43:29 PM
I prune mine every other month or so, else its grows so large i can't find anything.
As for the dragoons, Dave you should know their position on the cats :)
A cat walked into the Goons hiring office, and after hearing him out, the hiring officer had him escorted to a 'waiting' room while ROM was notified of his presence. Wolfnet was in no way responsible for any bruising or injections he might have sustained. Fell down some stairs most likly. Into a medical cart...
yeah. thats what happened. Wolf does not like kittys. Actually i think that was a Spirit Cat, haha :P
That's a good point. I'm sure the Goons have a little less hateration for Clan Nova Cat-in-Exile than for the Spirit Cats, but there is definitely some bad blood there over the whole "murdering wounded soldiers" business.
Interesting points regarding the split between WoB and Comstar. Just a note the WoB are still around just not as a comms provider per se. They are quietly biding their time since the split was not near as violent but there were numerous sharp and brutal convetional actions as well as terror orperations from 3070 to 3080. More details will be made available once I am able to sit down and formally put them to paper so to speak. It is very possible that some factions may have WoB as a provider but throughan elaborate set of cut outs.
Hateration. Sounds like some emo kid's drink.
Mix in a collins glass:
1 part Tequila
1 part Whiskey
1 part Cranberry Schnapps(for blood coloring)
2 parts crappy music
2 parts angsty poetry
Hateration!
sorry...
Quote from: Deathrider6 on May 19, 2011, 07:15:59 PM
Interesting points regarding the split between WoB and Comstar. Just a note the WoB are still around just not as a comms provider per se. They are quietly biding their time since the split was not near as violent but there were numerous sharp and brutal convetional actions as well as terror orperations from 3070 to 3080. More details will be made available once I am able to sit down and formally put them to paper so to speak. It is very possible that some factions may have WoB as a provider but throughan elaborate set of cut outs.
My biggest issue remains communications. Unless someone burned out all the Wobblies from the Marian Hegemony, I'm thinking that adepts outside of the inner circle would have been reintegrated into ComStar, leaving ComStar as my defacto provider. Pay no attention to Marians who still go to HPG temples to pray for the repair of their toasters. The truth is that despite his highminded ideals, Caesar never beat his technology addiction, which is what made the Hegemony a safe haven for the WoB for so long, despite their double dealings with the Circinus Federation.
Details on the forums are a bit sketchy about how things ended after the last turn. On the OOC side, one person seemed to think that the Spirit Cats had already crushed the Marian Hegemony out of existence. :P
The beatdown on Niops had a lot of secondary effects, such as the end of the CoPS and the return of Canopian sovereign territory, but I'm not at all clear on how or why it started. Can anyone give me more insight as to what happened?
At the time the decision was made to do the time jump there was not a marian player at the same time I wanted to keep the Marians available for play should some one choose to. The MoC had outlined reintegration of the lost worlds during the time lag and It made sense so I ran with it. There are other choices I had to make as well but they will be made plain once the T47 prestart map is released.
All of that makes sense. I'm not at all surprised Niops had to go. I guess what I don't understand is why it took so long, and why the Cats were the ones who eventually did the job.
FWL was busy fighting the Adders, Marians had no player, and Marlin was the only Clan to go 'lets go hit those guys'
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 20, 2011, 06:34:07 PM
FWL was busy fighting the Adders, Marians had no player, and Marlin was the only Clan to go 'lets go hit those guys'
NIOPS didn't have a player and was rolled into the "SLDF Faction", which was then kept neutered until NIOPS could be destroyed, and Hugin was the only active player willing to play ball with destroying it, thus saving the "purity" of the game from leftover zaniness from the Chanman/Giovanniblasini period of NIOPS play-such as their "Genetic modded ethnicities" (the "Elf" genotype), or their extensive experimentation into sentient AI and "Consciousness copying".
Not really. I think that plan was set in motion with the player before me.
I just followed it through.
For the reasons CS offers, and more, we're all thankful you did. Though I'd have rather seen a few more nukes fly twards the planet than away from it ::)
As for the MH, they were in an intresting spot last time I saw them. On the one hand, they were unlikely to be in too big a pickle, since their chief enemies were either realing from their attacks and thouse of the other Periphery allies, or else locked incombat with someone else (in the case of the FWL and the Adders, one can only imagine the Marians laughing all the way to the bank, since both factions were strongly pro MoC). But, the support institutions that had supported the MH's rise from laughable pirate state to semi-respectable star empire were just as equaly on the run. The Terrans, who had failed to really lay the sort of hurt on the FWL that they had hoped to in the war a year before, were realing from their war with the Clans and wracked by internal trouble, eventualy to be torn appart by this combination of factors. The Periphery Coaltion was disintegrating for other reasons (reason one: no players). Leaving the MH to largely stand on its own, and largely no one to stand aginst.
Of course, over 20 years, one imagines the victorious FWL and Adders, with their massive terratories and resorces to call on, bouncing back faster than the defeated Terrans or dismembered CoPS, and thus alowing the MoC by extention to bounce back fairly well also.
Unless something happined in the last few months I missed.
Quote from: Marlin on May 20, 2011, 07:23:20 PM
Not really. I think that plan was set in motion with the player before me.
I just followed it through.
I am sparticus.
I set that plan in motion.....
Quote from: Cannonshop on May 20, 2011, 06:45:00 PM
aving the "purity" of the game from leftover zaniness from the Chanman/Giovanniblasini period of NIOPS play-such as their "Genetic modded ethnicities" (the "Elf" genotype), or their extensive experimentation into sentient AI and "Consciousness copying".
I dunno man, Chan told me some of the stuff they did, it sounded pretty damn funny. I especially like the THC-based chemical weapons released on rioters in the MoC.
Niops and the CoP had several things that made them unhealthy for the game. Thankfully that is now over.
Define unhealthy. I think some of their stories are funny. It's just a game, shouldn't be taken too seriously.
A little LSD can give you the giggles. A lot of it can ensure you never get them again. One can make the argument that Niops is such a thing. I've got some very strong feelings about it, so if you really want I can vent over PM, but I'd sooner not say some of that publicly.
No need to vent. I just think a little levity is good every now and again. God knows the GC could use a court jester now and again.
Well, the GM's shouldn't have tried to kill of the Mandrills ;D
Just to clarify, lest any version other than what really happen become the 'canon version,' there wasn't any massive GM conspiracy to kill Niops.
The problem we had with Niops was that no one wanted to play them. So, we took the following steps:
1. We offered it to several people; both active players who had been talking about branching out and previous players who were thinking about coming back. The response was uniformly, "sorry, we don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole."
2. We incorporated Niops into the SLDF metafaction in the hopes that we could entrust the SLDF faction to a player and thus move Niops off our hands. Unfortunately, no one wanted to/felt comfortable with roleplaying the Niops characters, which was a problem and just lead to Niops not doing much.
3. Player-driven activities that the GMs were not involved with lead to the Niops garrison being reduced. To emphasize again, there was no secret GM directive to strip the Niops garrison or otherwise render the hex vulnerable.
4. Other player-driven activities targeted Niops for destruction. Whether or not there was an OOC aspect to some of those plans is something I have asked my own questions about, but ultimately the decision was made that: A) the faction doing the attack was behaving in a believable way game-wise, B) the other factions involved were continuing patterns of behavior they had already previously established in-game, and C) regardless of the outcome, the activity itself was beneficial to the progress of the campaign, so we stood by and let the plot play out.
Its probably also worth noting that the GM team had adopted a policy at that time of not going out of our way to preserve microfactions in light of the problems with the size of the player base at the time, so if you thought we weren't exactly engaged in a big outpouring of sympathy for Niops it was a reflection of this policy, and not any kind of situation where were were steepling our fingets and going "eeeeeeeeeeeexcellllllllent" while we watch the Evil Master Plan played out.
So yeah, as much as I was not really convinced that some of the directions of the Niops RP were compatible with the "style" of the BattleTech universe, and thus did not really feel a great sense of loss when the faction was destroyed, the GM team did not deliberately neuter the faction's defenses, nor did we recruit any players to carry out any sort of faction assassination. Niops ultimately fell because no one wanted to play the faction, because several players identified it as a viable target, and some other players facilitated the hit in order to further their own faction goals.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 21, 2011, 05:28:06 AM
So yeah, as much as I was not really convinced that some of the directions of the Niops RP were compatible with the "style" of the BattleTech universe, and thus did not really feel a great sense of loss when the faction was destroyed...
Very diplomatic, Dave ;D
What can I say? I don't want to be a dick, but I don't want to misrepresent myself either. I liked Gio and the gang's RP, I liked a lot of their characters, but I'd by lying if I said Niops as a whole really fit in with the rest of the universe. The Niops-driven stuff that happened in the Star League Council and with the COPS was a really valuable addition to the game and I'll be the first one to praise that aspect of their roleplay. The problem was the "out there" stuff, a lot of which happened in the timeframe of turns 20-35 give or take, that created a stereotype about the faction which made it almost impossible to get players to be interested in it and introduced a lot of anacosmic material into the game; the fall of Niops allowed us to close the chapter on those aspects of the faction without having to roll in with the retcon brigade, and without automatically destroying the most important (and least counter-setting) contributions they made: the First Lord and the formation of the COPS.
So yeah, it would be dishonest of me if I tried to pretend I was really upset when Niops went down; honestly I was more happy with how the book got closed there (the result of player actions) than the way Randis fell during the Dark story arc (that turned out to be so unpopular anyway despite our efforts to tie it into the larger backstory).
Yeah, if we'd have done Randis a year earlier I could have done a better job of it, I think. But every time I think I've got it figured out how much time I'll have for this, something changes and I don't have any anymore.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 21, 2011, 05:28:06 AM
The problem we had with Niops was that no one wanted to play them. So, we took the following steps:
1. We offered it to several people; both active players who had been talking about branching out and previous players who were thinking about coming back. The response was uniformly, "sorry, we don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole."
I know I was in a conversation where Niops was brought up, and the GMs were saying they were having trouble filling the position. IIRC both myself and Cannonshop expressed having thoughts about it. But both of us said that we would have to do something about the more shadowrunny aspects.
Well I did something about it. Gave the Cats safcon right to burn it down right around the elve's ears. heh
Daring to defy the Captain-General.
Pity we didn't have another turn or two was looking forward to First Lord unpronounceable needing to move through FWL space to take it back at the head of a FWL battlegroup and then being clapped in iron's.
:-)
If I only hadn't had to worry about the Dark at the time. I really wanted to address some of the oddness of the Niops faction with the . . . New Avalon Catholic Church. Well actually my plan would have been to convince one of the Star League units stationed at Niops through Special Ops to go rogue against the government of Niops due to its "heretical" ideals. I even set it all up with an rp post where I had the Pope of New Avalon talking to a Bishop about it. That post caused more issue due to the fact that it basically said that some of the church relics that were suppose to be on Randis were in fact fakes thanks to the NACC switching boxes.
The real issue is that when I finally got the chance to do something about it; I was spending everything that I had to realign everything towards fighting the Dark. I even wanted to pull the FedSuns out of the Star League to save money and units if truth be told. Which is the real reason that I accepted SilentWarrior's peace proposal on St. Ives, I didn't want to be fighting another war in addition to the Lyran Implosion, the Dark, and that albatross of the Suns being the Outworlds Alliance possibly going Clan (We lost that one). I didn't get St. Ives for the Suns in the end, but Warlock and Texlos are pretty good. I guess even though I know that I would have been able to secure the whole St. Ives Compact without much fuss: it was just RP and MP that I couldn't afford to waste at that point. Do you know how much MP it costs to move about six hundred FP from the Capellan March to the mid Crucis March? A lot. The only reason that I chased the killer of Quintus Allard-Liao as long as I did was that I really wanted to know who killed the Duke of St. Ives. And then I got that gig being head of 3010.
But sometimes, I wonder what would have happened if I could have done more with the NACC story that I had in mind.
Also, I feel sorry for whoever gets stuck with Northwind since you might have the Targe.
TH has it still
So I guess my next question is what happened to the Star League. Will it survive the jump to 3091? Will it manage to be even less effective than it already was?
Quote from: GI Journalist on May 22, 2011, 03:58:25 AM
So I guess my next question is what happened to the Star League. Will it survive the jump to 3091? Will it manage to be even less effective than it already was?
Will it survive? Yes.
Will it continue to be ineffective? Dunno.. It's early yet.
I wouldn't call the SL ineffective. It managed to prevent the Clans from invading the FWL. Which when you get right down to it was my major goal for it. So good job SL. :-)
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 24, 2011, 07:03:00 AM
HD Green-Lights VEAR Rally, Castes Threaten Violence
26 December 3090 - ATS (TAMAR)
In a 9-7 ruling, the Högsta Domstolen upheld the right of the Volkslyranische-blodfolken Enade Anti-Rasistiskt Parti (VEAR) to stage a mass demonstration on Skokie opposing employment restrictions on members of protected ethnic groups. Referring to the Ghost Bear Warrior Council's renunciation of the Trial of Annihilation against [censored by Chatterweb moderators], Ordförande Miles Hallen opined, "the purpose of the constitutional protections for minority ethnic groups - including those of [censored] descent - is to promote social harmony and ensure equal justice under the law, not to impose internal exile in place of Annihilation."
Conservative groups within the Dominion were quick to react; at a press conference jointly held by the Snow Raven Labor Caste and the All-Rasalhague Communist Party, Skokie Senior Laborer Alfonso promised, "Many compromises were made when the New Dominion was formed, but just because the Not-Named are permitted to claim perveted pride in the dark deeds of their ancestors in places like Orestes and Alshain, their efforts to undermine the pillars of our society will not be tolerated here on Skokie. I cannot accept responsibility for any spontaneous outbursts of anger if these degenerates attempt to force their obscene lifestyle on the honest laborers of this world."
An official at the Krigsministerium, speaking on condition of anonymity, informed Around The Sphere that several Kungsmarin naval infantry sibkos have been placed on alert for possible riot control duty. The State Security ministry was not available for comment.
In sports news, FK Grumium...
Heeey, :P I Used to live in Skokie as a kid, I know exactly what you're doing here :P History repeats itself? :P
Okay, Map looks nice except such ugly dark blue that took the Ice Hellion Worlds.
Took the rest to PM. ;)
I thought you got those back on the last map?
Quote from: Marlin on May 24, 2011, 06:26:49 PM
ugly dark blue
Keep it up, theres plenty to go around
Big Blue is still out there, and much alive, even in the midst of so many others. ;)
Quote from: Fatebringer on May 24, 2011, 10:19:28 PM
Big Blue is still out there, and much alive, even in the midst of so many others. ;)
I thought GTE got absorbed by Verizon back in the '90s? :P
ok, Ive been having problems all weekend in finalizing my T1 orders
everytime I try to copy and paste data from the sheet Ive been working on onto a blank several key pieces of data dont transfer or auto correct...namely MPs created and Perm MP Pool
also, in order to get all my units to fit Ive had to insert additional lines, and on those new lines no data appears regarding MPs
is there any way, short of manually figuring out the MPs created by units, to get get the Order Sheet to figure it out for me....Ive pretty much run out of ideas on how to do this on my own, so any help would be appreciated
Quote from: GraeGor on May 31, 2011, 01:20:46 AM
ok, Ive been having problems all weekend in finalizing my T1 orders
everytime I try to copy and paste data from the sheet Ive been working on onto a blank several key pieces of data dont transfer or auto correct...namely MPs created and Perm MP Pool
also, in order to get all my units to fit Ive had to insert additional lines, and on those new lines no data appears regarding MPs
is there any way, short of manually figuring out the MPs created by units, to get get the Order Sheet to figure it out for me....Ive pretty much run out of ideas on how to do this on my own, so any help would be appreciated
This is a Dave Baughman Qestion since he designed the sheet.
Quote from: Deathrider6 on May 31, 2011, 01:23:14 AM
Quote from: GraeGor on May 31, 2011, 01:20:46 AM
ok, Ive been having problems all weekend in finalizing my T1 orders
everytime I try to copy and paste data from the sheet Ive been working on onto a blank several key pieces of data dont transfer or auto correct...namely MPs created and Perm MP Pool
also, in order to get all my units to fit Ive had to insert additional lines, and on those new lines no data appears regarding MPs
is there any way, short of manually figuring out the MPs created by units, to get get the Order Sheet to figure it out for me....Ive pretty much run out of ideas on how to do this on my own, so any help would be appreciated
This is a Dave Baughman Qestion since he designed the sheet.
Didn't Dave also design the left-handed screwdriver?? ???
i thought that was the left-screwed handdriver?
Quote from: GraeGor on May 31, 2011, 01:20:46 AM
ok, Ive been having problems all weekend in finalizing my T1 orders
everytime I try to copy and paste data from the sheet Ive been working on onto a blank several key pieces of data dont transfer or auto correct...namely MPs created and Perm MP Pool
also, in order to get all my units to fit Ive had to insert additional lines, and on those new lines no data appears regarding MPs
is there any way, short of manually figuring out the MPs created by units, to get get the Order Sheet to figure it out for me....Ive pretty much run out of ideas on how to do this on my own, so any help would be appreciated
The underlying problem is probably cutting and pasting from one sheet to another. That will definitely break any formulas that interact with different tabs, as MS Office will carry them over as links back to the original sheet. If you are just trying to carry over data, rather than actually transferring formulas and stuff, this problem can be averted by copying and pasting only fields that do not contain formulas.
Adding additional lines is a little easier to fix, you just have to make sure of two things.
1. Don't add after the very last row or above the very first row, as this will break the formulas the game uses to calculate the overall totals for FP, MP, etc.
2. After you have created your new lines, you need to highlight a blank row and copy & paste it to the new rows to create the formulas within the line item. That's probably why MP calculation isn't working.
Let me know if that doesn't resolve the problems your having; I'll need to examine your sheet to find out what's broken, but I should be able to ferret out the problem.
Quote from: Fatebringer on May 24, 2011, 04:24:07 PM
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 24, 2011, 07:03:00 AM
HD Green-Lights VEAR Rally, Castes Threaten Violence
26 December 3090 - ATS (TAMAR)
In a 9-7 ruling, the Högsta Domstolen upheld the right of the Volkslyranische-blodfolken Enade Anti-Rasistiskt Parti (VEAR) to stage a mass demonstration on Skokie opposing employment restrictions on members of protected ethnic groups. Referring to the Ghost Bear Warrior Council's renunciation of the Trial of Annihilation against [censored by Chatterweb moderators], Ordförande Miles Hallen opined, "the purpose of the constitutional protections for minority ethnic groups - including those of [censored] descent - is to promote social harmony and ensure equal justice under the law, not to impose internal exile in place of Annihilation."
Conservative groups within the Dominion were quick to react; at a press conference jointly held by the Snow Raven Labor Caste and the All-Rasalhague Communist Party, Skokie Senior Laborer Alfonso promised, "Many compromises were made when the New Dominion was formed, but just because the Not-Named are permitted to claim perveted pride in the dark deeds of their ancestors in places like Orestes and Alshain, their efforts to undermine the pillars of our society will not be tolerated here on Skokie. I cannot accept responsibility for any spontaneous outbursts of anger if these degenerates attempt to force their obscene lifestyle on the honest laborers of this world."
An official at the Krigsministerium, speaking on condition of anonymity, informed Around The Sphere that several Kungsmarin naval infantry sibkos have been placed on alert for possible riot control duty. The State Security ministry was not available for comment.
In sports news, FK Grumium...
Heeey, :P I Used to live in Skokie as a kid, I know exactly what you're doing here :P History repeats itself? :P
Only unintentionally. Originally, the march was going to be on Karbala and Hervor's storyline on Skokie took place considerably earlier in 3090, but I realized there was no reason to separate the two events so I edited Hervor's Skokie post to occur in line with the news post and updated the planet from my draft to the final version.
Besides, VEAR is hardly the NSPA (even if there are some bad actors using them for cover)
Sometimes, I have to wonder if the Capellans will get this free market thing down, Cannonshop. That was an ouch. ;D
Dave, your suggestions worked...right up until my hard drive froze
Now Im just waiting to learn how severe the issue is
Cell phone works for somethings....but not so much for others
BTW, if you have any ideas or would want to take part as a Crewmember in the "Ancestral Home" find, feel free to join. It has likely not much impact but can make a great RP opportunity. If it goes out with just coming back to the ship or with a catastrophe would be your decision. :)
Facts: the ship hangs there, its nearly broken in half, unsalvageable forever. I think it was a Texas Battleship (the one hanging around Tamaron in Canon, for gaming purposes could jump again) Until there.
The ship has a Crew of 155, I think 20 or so could go over without impeding the Ship's performance. (The Captain will not as we are not in Star Trek here. :D )
Interesting that you have it nearly broken in half, because if memory serves me correct the Coyotes were deemed to have put it back into fighting condition. Which it did, when using those Cloud Cobra warships as a speed bump when they tried to interfere with the Coyote departure from Tamaron. Granted, it suffered a fair bit of damage, but it was still able to jump out.
Quote from: Marlin on June 05, 2011, 08:35:47 AM
BTW, if you have any ideas or would want to take part as a Crewmember in the "Ancestral Home" find, feel free to join. It has likely not much impact but can make a great RP opportunity. If it goes out with just coming back to the ship or with a catastrophe would be your decision. :)
Facts: the ship hangs there, its nearly broken in half, unsalvageable forever. I think it was a Texas Battleship (the one hanging around Tamaron in Canon, for gaming purposes could jump again) Until there.
The ship has a Crew of 155, I think 20 or so could go over without impeding the Ship's performance. (The Captain will not as we are not in Star Trek here. :D )
Does it mean you are onboard?
regarding the Naval Recon Order...
who posts the results if successful...the GM or, in this case, me?
and I presume that if a Pirate Transit is unsuccessful, then it's detected...or is there a roll needed to detect the failure?
A successful pirate insertion results in me getting the full disclosure of all naval units in the hex(anything tracked on your naval tab- asf attatched to ground units doesn't count), with you not being able to react or otherwise impede my action- basiclly we get in, we see everything, we get out before you can respond(not sure if you are aware or not I was there- I'm assuming as with all combat posts, you know i was there no later than the beginning of the next turn).
A failed pirate insertion resolves as a normal movement order- my forces jump in, and of your forces present are free to react as they normally would. The one unit that took damage resolves in the same way- he's just hurt. No roll is required.
As for who posts it, I don't think it really matters. The only way to hide from a Naval Recon is if a unit is concealed by a successful intelligence order(in which case Dave would need to post, since we havn't had our turn results back yet). Clandestine + Improved Clandestine Movement units are still spotted(SF teams don't count- they arn't naval units).
Quote from: Daemonknight on June 06, 2011, 09:53:20 AM
A successful pirate insertion results in me getting the full disclosure of all naval units in the hex(anything tracked on your naval tab- asf attatched to ground units doesn't count), with you not being able to react or otherwise impede my action- basiclly we get in, we see everything, we get out before you can respond(not sure if you are aware or not I was there- I'm assuming as with all combat posts, you know i was there no later than the beginning of the next turn).
Does that include posting/revealing the FP value? if it does, I'll have to add that later
it does
also note, that if you don't engage(in combat) a unit on Naval Recon orders, they will still complete their mission. Failing a pirate insertion simply means they're conducting their mission in full view of your forces(if any). Lack of naval forces should also be noted(just so someone isn't left hanging wondering if the unanswered thread was ignore/forgotten/empty).
You can submit the intel via PMs if you wish.
Basically, Graegor, if you have any Naval stuff in the hexes the Scouts misjumped in, you can deploy them. You just have to say so. If he does not move out, then there is a (small, I suppose) battle and he cannot gain more intel than the force you attacked with. Do nothing, he gets all.
In case you should lose against the Scout force, well.. that has never happened before. :P
EDIT: When could we get the Intel and R+D we did?
hopefully soon
You should have it by this weekend. I will be carving threough it faction by faction.
other replies being posted and PM sent with values
Still waiting on the update for Clan Personalities from:
Holt- Clan Diamond Shark
&
Chaosextreme-Clan Steel Viper
Still waiting on the update for IS Personalities from:
Cannonshop- Capellan Confederation
&
Greyjaeger- Draconis Combine
&
Chaosextreme- Free Worlds League
Still waiting for update on Periphery/Independant Personalities from:
GI Journalist- Marian Hegemony
&
Cannonshop- Union of Independant Worlds
&
Jeyar- Taurian Concordant
&
Parmenion- Horse Alliance(The OWA side of things still has VIPs/decision makers, yes?)
Where do you want to put the FRR branch of the New Dominion?
I will add it to Periphery/Independants, for lack of a better place. Use the IS Personalities template, if you please(same for the others, if I didn't make that clear)
This is what I know for now. Dave is Point man on this. As Prince "Elect" there is no Heir Apparent, but several Bloodlines are strongly favored such as Magnusson & Mandotir
Free Rasalhauge Republic - *Member-state of the New Dominion*
Prince-Elect: Rolf Magnusson
Speaker of the Riksdag: Thomas Mountbatten
War Minister: Khan Drasan Tseng
Minister of Foreign Affairs:
Minister of Labor:
Minister of State Security:
Minister of Finance:
Minister of Inteligence: Freya Arik
Minister of the Interior:
Minister of Communications:
Minister of Trade:
is there someone who steps up if the Prince-Elect is for some reason unable to perform his duties? That person would be the Regent(like the VP in the US). Is the FRR's military totally under the control of the Ghost Bears? they don't have top-level command of their own troops? Just making sure I'm clear on who is going where.
And we're not posting up the leader of each ministry- thats for ur IC page. If they're important, reoccuring characters throughout your RP, pick 3 of them(max).
Roger that, but you should understand that the position of Prince Elect is determined by the Riksdag, if they can not perform their duties, there is a vote to replace them and a New Prince Elect voted in. There is no Heir but there are plenty of people to cover the various duties in the mean time.
Quote from: Fatebringer on June 07, 2011, 04:53:58 PM
This is what I know for now. Dave is Point man on this. As Prince "Elect" there is no Heir Apparent, but several Bloodlines are strongly favored such as Magnusson & Mandotir
Free Rasalhauge Republic - *Member-state of the New Dominion*
Prince-Elect: Rolf Magnusson
Speaker of the Riksdag: Thomas Mountbatten
War Minister: Khan Drasan Tseng
Minister of Foreign Affairs:
Minister of Labor:
Minister of State Security:
Minister of Finance:
Minister of Inteligence: Freya Arik
Minister of the Interior:
Minister of Communications:
Minister of Trade:
Thomas Mountbatten is back? This should make for some interesting RP between him and Rolf. hehehe
He was the last one listed :P I didn't know his age :P If you need to change him, let me know :P
I gotta start getting ready for work
will post defending forces (if any) in remaining threads tomorrow after I get home
Quote from: Fatebringer on June 07, 2011, 10:10:05 PM
He was the last one listed :P I didn't know his age :P If you need to change him, let me know :P
He'd be 80 or 90 in '91. But keep him... I think I can have some fun taking advantage of his bitterness towards Rolf's father.
When I look at the page for Clan space attacks and thouse aimed at a single faction don't fit on a single page, there's a part of me that misses the limits on attacks, and I'd feel the same if it was my faction or not, since my main complaint would be that there's little hope of doing MM or any meaningful RP for the vast preponderance of these worlds. DK seems to have been able to do a unique RP for each, which is very impressive, but I know my limits and Grae's limits. We may not be able to pull that off.
That said of course, we'll see if I feel the same when we get you back 8)
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on June 08, 2011, 07:11:59 AM
When I look at the page for Clan space attacks and thouse aimed at a single faction don't fit on a single page, there's a part of me that misses the limits on attacks, and I'd feel the same if it was my faction or not, since my main complaint would be that there's little hope of doing MM or any meaningful RP for the vast preponderance of these worlds. DK seems to have been able to do a unique RP for each, which is very impressive, but I know my limits and Grae's limits. We may not be able to pull that off.
That said of course, we'll see if I feel the same when we get you back 8)
I'd offer to ghost-write, but I'm kind of swamped with my own stuff and I don't think the rules allow it.
That said...holy shit that's a lot of invasions.
QuoteDK seems to have been able to do a unique RP for each, which is very impressive, but I know my limits and Grae's limits
Aff, but his OOC replies were so generic, he's offering ToP's for the Genetic Legacies of Militia? And ignoring any comments from Grea. :P Plus it's very unclanlike. Asking for a second trial before the first is resolved. The blatant over trialing for commanders? I can understand the territory and the "Claim" to it, but Grae should really be setting some return trial limits. AKA the if I win, you won't be back for 6 mo's, a year, counterbidding for territory. That way you can see if the LC are really trying to follow Clan ways or are just dirty stinking spheroids trying to start a war. :P
well I just spent 20 minutes putting up very basic non-IC replies to the ones I missed last night...and in another 20 minutes I plan to be in bed
and close to an hour last night posting the minimal replies that I managed...which pretty much covers my free time before having to get ready/leave for work
if more detailed responses from me are desired, then any combat threads vs the Adders will not be answered until a weekend rolls around, and even then when time permits
IM could have possibly, if his time allowed, posted better, but until recently he didnt have access to the Order Sheet...which is my fault, but what's done is done, and all I and IM can do is make the best of the situation from this point on
Well, a quick count shows 36 attacks, so if you took just 30 seconds to respond to each one (not much time to say anything) if you still set you back the better part of 20 minutes. If a good RP takes just five minutes (plus the time to look up what unit is there and who the commander is, which takes almost 30 seconds all on its own) then you'd spend three hours responding. Which is about four times what I alot for this game each day.
So if our replies are copy pastes for a bit, or if it takes a while, I hope we can be forgiven.
My time is slim the last says as well, but prepare for the Weekend. :D
On another serious note: I would like to have all players whose factions were involved in dismantling the RWR to create a sort of timeline for that. I must assume that the Cats took most of the time of the jump to gain theirs from the RWR, that means fanatical resistance. I would like to have that for the other involved factions as well, aka Lyrans. (No doubt they would it have somewhat easier, although they would be far weaker then now, I assume.)
It may be rough but it is needed and would be appreciated.
my OOC responses were short and generic because there wasn't really much else for me to add. I had originally intended to offer the commander trials only to serving line units, but i was almost falling asleep at that point in time.
My planned timeline was: arrival, commader trial, planetary ToP, cleanup/RTB
And the Lyrans actually couldn't care less about the genetics, they're doing that becayse the Falcons asked them too(though of course, nobody knows that IC).
Onto IM's concern, if anyone wants to proxy any of those planetary ToPs(or if Fate/Chaos want to do one of the 4 naval ToPs for the space stations), you're welcome to it- just let me know beforehand please.
Quick question about the LC attacks, as I read it, the LC is basically launching 2 trials. Now, I have no idea how many units they're sending, but the question is, for 1 unit that has the order Trial, how many things can actually be trialed for? (My reading of the rules would only allow to trial for one item, but if it's not, there probably should be a hard limit.
Theres never been a limit set on the number of trials that i'm aware of, but people are usually unconcerned with anything but taking territory/technology/SafCon, so I doubt it's come up before. As it is, Fate's annoyance with my issuing 2 trials, is because Grae didn't have time to post an IC response to every attack(understandable, theres alot of them). If Grae had been able to post an Adder commander speaking in any way, the ToP for their genetics would've gone out first, followed by the ToP for the worlds themselves.
And I simply copy/pasted my ooc response because I didn't really have a personalized response for "this is whats defending against your trial". Its hard to make a personalized response to...nothing. Again, nothing against Grae- some people have lives they need to attend to. I don't. however, I will be deleting the ones against planetary milita forces, because we don't care about them. Only bloodnamed warriors from actual Line units.
Oh, I wasn't going that you shouldn't be allowed 2 trials, I just think we should have a hard cap so that nobody is going to think of doing 100 trials all for 1/100th of the world or something crazy like that.
i doubt anyone would bother, its too much hassle. As it is, theres a very good reason i'm attacking so many planets simultaneously, and while its alot to go thru, i think that not being able to RP/MM alot of them is a moot point: most combat doesn't get alot of RP in it, unless its something more important than just your average world. And MM doesn't happen alot because nobody ever seems to have time(or they don't ask- i'm always around, but i'm not a good MM player, so i don't MM often because otherwise all i do is lose).
I'll get ahold of Kern, and maybe he'll be down to MM out some of these games for the Lyrans.
There were some rather low limits early in the game, but players ran up against them often enough that they got dropped. And there were IC limits on Clan trials at several points, of course.
Quote from: Daemonknight on June 08, 2011, 09:10:35 PM
i'm always around, but i'm not a good MM player, so i don't MM often because otherwise all i do is lose).
Well, I do have a bit of time for MM comming up... ::)
As far as it goes, I don't mind so much the attacks themselves. Sometimes, something like this is tacticly called for and correct. The FWL contemplated it a few times before backing down for political, not tactical, reasons. And I have something like this cooking in the other game.
Mainly, its what it signifies about what the game has become over the past seven years. Grae's more of an RP guy, and I prefer a bit of that and a bit of MM, and we both shun book keeping as much as possible I think. Yet, this game has grown more and more from an RP/MM game into a stratigy game. Except for a hand full of us like me and Parm and a few others, no one's been here the whole time, so you can't really blame anyone for the change, and its not really either bad or good. But, there's times when I miss the old days. That's all.
the ToPs for the genetic material are the ones I PREFER to MM, because those are entirely an RP device. That being said, I'm willing to put a few of my attemted conquests on the line aswell- i don't know how much time you have, or me really. I started playing EVE Online again, so thats been sucking my free time up. As has hockey- GO BRUINS! :P
Quote from: Elrad on June 08, 2011, 08:54:32 PM
Oh, I wasn't going that you shouldn't be allowed 2 trials, I just think we should have a hard cap so that nobody is going to think of doing 100 trials all for 1/100th of the world or something crazy like that.
Trials are "orders" and you can only execute one of those per operational round. There's six operational rounds in a turn, so that presents sort of a 'soft cap' on trial spam. The cap gets tighter when multi-faction initiative and other stuff come into play, eating up more op rounds.
Per world. But, you can still launch six with each force, so if each of the Lyr-falcon's 34 attacks went six rounds as trials, that would be overwelming in its scope.
As for MM, if you have any you'd prefer to see (notable blood names you want, for example) then note them, and we'll note trials we'd like to see MMed (again, important exclusive names, and also key strategic worlds that we see as important) and we can try to set a priority. We have no objection to most any proxies playing our part, though we'll note exceptions if they arise, and as always priority goes to former members of factions that we've absorbed, if any, if there's a conflict of people wanting to play.
With so many fights, absolutly anyone who wants to play should be able to find some MM fun for themselves.
No worries, I don't have any desire to run 204 rounds of combat this turn :P
As for important Bloodlines: any Steiners, or non-bloodnamed warriors able to claim the Steiner Bloodname(Charlie's or otherwise, not sure if you have discussed using them as material for new sibkos). Otherwise, whomever the highest ranked are(if multiple Bloodnamed are of the same rank, who ever has the most prestigious name, giving precedence to Exclusives of 'dead' Clans). Also, the reason behind this, is because I was told that so long as I hold the genetic legacy, you arn't able to use it in new sibkos yourself(Chaos told me this, I'm not familiar with this part of Clan Law, so if someone knows the specifics or can confirm that is indeed the case, or not, please let me know).
Also, if someone wishes to run the Falcon/Lyran side of a fight, let me know- as IM said, there are enough fights here, especially with the 4 Naval trials, for anyone who is up for a game to get it in. I don't have any real timeline on these, though I'd rather they get done sooner than later. If there is a fight you'd like to have, shoot me and Grae/IM a pm so we can figure it out.
Its a very good point that preposterous numbers of trials can always be declared... but then again, if someone was going to challenge me to 200+ trials in one turn, I'd tell them to bugger off and then break out the nukes ;)
Hey, who let Herb in here? :P
I am always interested in the Naval trials. :-)
My Timeline idea:
It will be needed for the Wiki and our RP so here it goes:
3072-3
In 3072 (or 73 for more realistic timeframe), The FWL, Lyrans and Spirit Cats launched a more or less coordinated assault on the RWR.
The Cats took on the outer positions with the Capital World, while the Lyrans and FWL worked on the vast inner worlds.
Apollo would be placed under a 4 year long blockade, and other planets were taken with much force, however, vicious and fanatical resistance was the answer. Thus, many planets took several years to pacify.
3076
Worst were the central Planets like Apollo, assaulted in 76 and falling in 77 after terrible fights and loss of most Infrastructure. (Nukes, much? Many planets or just a few? None?)
3080
The Spirit Cats had liberated their share of planets until 3080 with Apollo declared pacified in 82, leaving the touman depleted and the conquered territories devastated and in some cases devoid of populace.
3081
Khan Andrea West is shot by a Guerilla on Apollo, succeeded by Selina Fokker. Mattheu Sumner becomes saKhan. (Update for you, Daemon)
3082
End of Campaign
Then began the long process of integrating the planets into the appropriate realm and the rebuilding of industry to pre-war levels. (State as of 91 map)
If there was a final stand of Daphne Rowe and Adam Steiner is not my call. Apollo could be it or another planet more interior at least for "Leonidas". Whatever suits your need for epicness, I guess.
Mind you, that is an important of history and should not be taken too lightly, as 20 years are much time. The fact that so few actually happened in this time could be attributed to this gruesome war.
the Lyrans have Daphne and Peter. Have not decided what ti do with them just yet.
the FWL didn't conquer their section of the RWR- they won it via voting or something like that according to Chaos. I don't remember exactly.
9 years is a ridiculously long amount of time to conquer those worlds. But I don't see a detailed history as being nessicary here. There are other things that're more important to be worked on, and if that campaign happened the way you say it would, there would be fighting between the Lyrans and the Cats. But there wasn't that I'm aware of.
'twas a referendum.....
FWL also picked up the remnants of the RWR military who are itching for revenge against the hated Lyrans and Spirit Cats.
Though their hatred is not shared by the rest of the FWL as a whole (not that any one cares much for Lyrans but those Spirit Cat blokes are a good sort).
Quote from: Daemonknight on June 10, 2011, 09:42:33 PM
9 years is a ridiculously long amount of time to conquer those worlds. But I don't see a detailed history as being nessicary here. There are other things that're more important to be worked on, and if that campaign happened the way you say it would, there would be fighting between the Lyrans and the Cats. But there wasn't that I'm aware of.
For the Lyrans, probably not really. With the decimated state of the LCAF the Lyran nation would have been hard pressed to organise sufficient garrison strength for their important worlds, let alone be able to create an offensive force of sufficient strength to take back those former Lyran worlds held by the RWR.
You guys would have to have kept one eye on the Adders (and the Hellions and Falcons and probably even the Terrans because they don't really like you either) whilst at the same time attacking the RWR on a shoestring operation.
The involved parties (FWL/CNC/CSA/LA) need to come up with data for the Wiki should they choose to. Having that would be nice as well as a Link to the Wiki intself so our newer players can read up on the factions activites. This is a suggestion NOT a requirement.
Just a note the first round of reports will be going out. Watch you PM box.
Quote from: Deathrider6 on June 11, 2011, 12:59:12 AM
The involved parties (FWL/CNC/CSA/LA) need to come up with data for the Wiki should they choose to. Having that would be nice as well as a Link to the Wiki intself so our newer players can read up on the factions activites. This is a suggestion NOT a requirement.
FYI, the URL for the wiki is: http://fc62.intelser.org/ (http://fc62.intelser.org/)
At some point in the future I will research to find out whether or not it is practical to change it to fc91, but to be honest that's kind of a low priority item for me right now.
BTW when editing the wiki, feel free to liberally drop links on key terms by putting double-brackets on them. I went through and did this on the Assassination at Twycross article. If you're in the mood also add appropriate categories at the bottom.
Don't worry about adding red-links, they are often all some other editor needs to remind them of an article they want to write.
If you want to link to something other than the text in the article, just use a bar to seperate the link from the text - for example in Assassination at Twycross I turned "what appeared to be Techs" into a link, but I wanted it to go to "Rabid Foxes" if clicked, so I made it "[[Rabid Foxes|what appeared to be Techs]]"
Happy editing!
One other fun markup note - if you make a redirect page, like "Hellions" which contains just a link to "Clan Ice Hellion" put '#REDIRECT' followed by a space right before the link. This will make it so anyone who types in or links to 'Hellions' will automatically be taken straight to 'Clan Ice Hellion'
I forgot to tell about the Friendly Movement rule where there was some irritation about the Falcons: Grae has it right that an allied movement wanting to mount an attack within the allied territory has to state that in the first hex of the allied territory. As the Ally then becomes enemy in this case, the movement will be denied and the movement Hex has to be taken first. The moving through is definitely not applicable anymore.
Please watch out for this as it could remove some threads yet, at least to my opinion. Dave could clarify that further but that is how I read it.
To the timeline: I know it is long but I needed some sense in the 20 years, so this was the only thing that happened for most. Thus it had to take some time. And knowing the RWR it was good to do it not the easy way. That both leaders would end up in your hand alive and such seems quite the easy way to me but I am not a ruler there.
And the FWL-voted worlds: I hope this did not happen in an instant but rather in light of the aggressive campaign of Lyrans and Cats that those worlds switched to you? Not all at once but over the years?
They chose life under FWL rule rather than to kill themselves and their worlds I would assume. Certainly a smarter thing but still they were RWR worlds for a reason and thus should have had to think a bit on this, right?
Quote from: Marlin on June 11, 2011, 07:23:07 AM
I forgot to tell about the Friendly Movement rule where there was some irritation about the Falcons: Grae has it right that an allied movement wanting to mount an attack within the allied territory has to state that in the first hex of the allied territory. As the Ally then becomes enemy in this case, the movement will be denied and the movement Hex has to be taken first. The moving through is definitely not applicable anymore.
Please watch out for this as it could remove some threads yet, at least to my opinion. Dave could clarify that further but that is how I read it.
It is possible to use allied movement to sucker-punch someone, though it would be hard as the allied movement request PM has to contain:
- FP value of the force
- Final destination (if it is within the ally's territory)
- Request for permission to conduct combat ops
So the would-be attacker would have to tell the potential victim how much he was sending, where he was sending it,
and explicitly request permission to do combat ops. If the attacker isn't paying attention to the PM or naively allows it (maybe you snookered him with an intelligence op or with clever diplomacy), then you could conceivably attack.
QuoteNaval Recon
Type: Raid
Mimimum Force Size: 0.25 FP
Requirement: Mobile or LFB Mobile movement class. Pirate Transit is mandatory.
Effect: If the required Pirate transit is successfully undetected gain full knowledge of enemy forces in hex (100%
reliable). If Pirate Transit fails, the raider may retreat or engage any forces defending (which can be from any or all planets in the hex). If the defender successfully engages then damage is rolled. If the Recon mission is engaged by the Defender the recon unit gains full knowledge of the units that engaged them (only applicable if any of the Recon mission escapes) but no other Naval forces in the
hex.
Gah! An all out invasion on the first turn! I guess I should have anticipated this... ;D
So what information do I owe on the successful naval recon of Alphard? Both naval and ground forces, or just naval forces?
HEy GI. Yeah, you probably should. ;)
But well.
All you have in the Hex would be owed to me. (Except Spec Ops stuff)
Thanks.
After that we can get it rolling.
A reaction on the Lothario Raid was also good to finish that one up as well.
Regarding the new ruling of DR towards Naval Recon:
Could you change the rule appropriately that there can be no misunderstanding contrary to your ruling, please? By now it says: "ALL" instead of all Naval or something. Would be better and spare us trouble later.
I thought everyone understood that NAVAL Recon, only applys to NAVAL forces. Assuming otherwise is kinda pushing logical interpertation of the rules.
Not when taking fluff into account and how it was done before.
I appreciated the GM ruling. As written, it was open to misinterpretation, and I'm glad we could avoid any confusion.
Aye, it obviously was needed. So if you have any Aero or Naval in Alphard Hex, I would still like to know about it. :) ;D
PM on its way, and now I have another rules question.
If I'm producing new units on Alphard, when are they completed? In time for the battle, on the turn I ordered them or next turn?
When you started them in turn 1, then they are ready start of the next turn. Means, all you started in turn 1 are not ready for action.
It also means u don't reveal them to naval recon
That's what I thought. My next question is the obvious one. What happens to the production if I lose the world this turn and the hex is contested? Do I lose the production run? Or does the new unit retreat to the nearby world in the same hex, provided they can run the blockade? ???
If the unit isn't fully constructed yet, it appears somewhere else you have the ability to complete it. If your only SYs and MFs are on Alphard, then you'd lose the units. But if you have alternate sites, it appears at one of them instead(the unit doesn't techniclly exist untill the turn it becomes active).
Quote from: Daemonknight on June 14, 2011, 05:07:16 AM
If the unit isn't fully constructed yet, it appears somewhere else you have the ability to complete it. If your only SYs and MFs are on Alphard, then you'd lose the units. But if you have alternate sites, it appears at one of them instead(the unit doesn't techniclly exist untill the turn it becomes active).
Although in theory/practise DK, you put down the point of assembly on your ordersheet. So if the point of assembly is Alphard, then GI has a little problem (in my opinion).
But if it's not a valid point or origin, it can't be created there. However, that doesn't mean you should lose your units being constructed- they don't exist. Otherwise, you should be able to defend a world with partially constructed units. You can't have it both ways: either the unit is infact there as soon as you begin building it(and its techniclly 'alive' during the tun it's constructed, but can't move), or else it's not in-game in any way untill the turn after it's paid for(and if the primary location isn't availible, you should be able to put it someplace else).
Of course they exist... that's why we have a hex and planetary notation in our orders sheet. And yes, you can have it both ways in that it appears at the end of the turn at the shipyard hex nominated. And it's in game under the current rules because you have expended SY points and RP as per your orders sheet. Granted, if a hex gets attacked and taken by an enemy force and a faction just so happens to have a build being assemblied there, any normal nation wouldn't keep send prefab bits to a contested hex. Therefore the obvious solution would be for a GM addendum in that all SY points and RP within the contested hex is lost (if the planet falls), but all other construction going on at other SY is still paid for and constructed. It just means that these 'off-site' bits are held in the pipeline by the logisitics people until the situation at the contested hex is resolved one way or another.
Ur now trying to apply fluff to rules. Is elaborate, bit on at the hospital. More later. I disagree is all, lol
I do tend to agree with Parm. These units to be don't just exist in the eather, only to be summoned into being all at once when they're done. They exist at some place, and that place is noted on orders. And they don't just spring into bring, they take months of laborious work, in terms of training, drilling, assmbling supplies and material and filling out paper work and other things. No, they're not ready to fight, but they are not non-existant.
As far as fluff vs rules, there's a difrence between a game like this and a board game like BattleTech. That's explicitly a board game, made to be rules driven, with a great bit of fiction that's sprung up to support it. But this is, or at least was, implicitly a Role Play driven game. "Fluff," that is to say the Role Play that we pour our hearts and souls into, is really at the core of the game for many of us, and all these rules have been built up to support that (there was a time when there were not any rules, and it was purely RP driven, though it became problematic over time). So, of course we need to give RP considerations like "is there a unit training" consideration. What an RP oppertuity!
I'll be making a ruling later today.
Wait a second! I thought that Anton was shooting blanks. Something is going on here. And it's obvious that it has to do with something. Something possibly . . .evil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpMUJEEBsAg#).
Chances for evil plot by the Illumanti/Needle Ship Producers/Reverse Vampires/Rand Corporation/StarCorps/Crazy Homeless Steve who thinks that he is Batman/The GeneCaste/Pinkie Pie/LioKaiser/I.M. Weasel/ The frozen head of Al Kahn/The Pants of Precentor Apollyon
[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 5, 5, total 10[/blockquote]
The way I understood things was, a unit is created in the first phase of the turn and not available until the end of the turn. If you lose production during the turn, you have to adjust what you created that turn. An example of something I had to deal with were the attacks on the Sudeten Shipards. When we lost those yards we had to reduce the amount of repairs we did that turn by the lost capacity. But Spec Ops went off before the rest of the turn so we retroactively applied the loss to that turn, on the other side, we didn't pay for the repairs we didn't do. Wether that was right or not, I can't say. We notified the GM's of how we interpreted the loss and were not corrected.
I will point out that previous GM decisions are used equally as good and bad examples of rule interpretation. Also, that a previous ruling doesn't make it correct in the face of a lack of written rules.
I'll ask DR to wait until I'm able to defend my position before he makes a ruling.
So, heres the thing: in the context of this game, yes, units are created from the ether. This game does not track off-board items, like militia, logistical trains, supplies, recruitment or training. Every turn, you have a maximum number of FP you are able to activate. They arn't actually trained during that time- lets not forget, a single turn is 2 months. It takes years to train a basic mechwarrior in Successor State militiaries or the Clans. Anything that exists in the game, and anything subject to the rules of the game, is tracked on the map and the faction sheet.
This is why you can have 50 MFs, and spit out 100 FP at a hex with a single MF- they all weren't built/trained there, but the game doesn't allow for things like 'maximum capacity at Facility X'. Why? Because this game is an abstraction, and does not work when you try and apply specifics. Also, we do not track units until the turn AFTER they appear in your 'Military Construction' tab on your sheet. Therefore, they don't exist as far as the game is concerned untill the turn AFTER you paid for them. You can choose anywhere they should come out, but technically, you shouldn't have to choose until the beginning of the turn they 'come into play'.
So you're suggesting if RP is spent on construction and the factories in a particular hex are unavailable on the following turn (contested, destroyed, etc.), then those resources can be redirected to generate FP at another location?
As far as i know, you need to pick which hex the units will be built at when you pay for the unit, not when it comes into play; hence the 'hex' and 'planet' portion of construction in the excel sheet. You do not keep track of which MF/SYs you use to construct the unit, but you do designate its end location when you pay for it.
Blockade only blocks the income gained from the hex to be banked for one turn, not its production capabilities; You can keep producing at the blockaded hex.
It is a flaw in the blockade rules and easily fixed but until it is as long as you own the hex and it is not contested, any units built pre-blockade or post blockade may start their turn in the blockaded hex.
The rule for blockade not including movement states:
QuoteDuring a Blockade no RP from the target hex may be used, and it may only be banked a maximum of one cycle, in addition no troop or Flotilla movements will be allowed in, out or through the hex unless Blockade Running or Pirate Transit* is used.
P.S. Construction is not considered 'troop movement'.
Quote from: GI Journalist on June 15, 2011, 03:35:41 AM
So you're suggesting if RP is spent on construction and the factories in a particular hex are unavailable on the following turn (contested, destroyed, etc.), then those resources can be redirected to generate FP at another location?
yes
Quote from: Holt on June 15, 2011, 04:05:41 AM
As far as i know, you need to pick which hex the units will be built at when you pay for the unit, not when it comes into play; hence the 'hex' and 'planet' portion of construction in the excel sheet. You do not keep track of which MF/SYs you use to construct the unit, but you do designate its end location when you pay for it.
That is how its currently written, but my point is that the issue is one of timing- we issue orders at the end of one turn, which is also the beginning of another. There isn't a multi-step orders process, like say the way timing works in Magic the Gathering. Everything 'goes off' at once here. It shouldn't, because it doesn't really make much sense when you apply it to context like this.
The units spend a whole turn 'being assembled' off-board- this means they can't be affected by anything that happens in-game. Now, the end of the turn shows up. Techniclly, they still don't exist untill the next turn starts, when they pop out at Hex X. However, if Hex X isn't a valid target(it was conquored, the MF was destroyed), you shouldn't lose those units, they should simply show up somewhere else.
Lets use the RP side, since it's been said that RP should drive the game for some reason.
The Marians begin assembling 20 FP of ground forces at Alphard. January 20th, the Spirit Cats show up. Well, the material that isn't already at Alphard, isn't going to keep going there. It'll be re-routed. And the little bit that has trickled in? Is likly easily replaced at the new site.
Because lets not forget, there is no time-lock in this game, like Flashpoint. Yes, every turn is equal to 2 months, but the actual day of an action is totally upto the writer of the RP. It could be the day the turn ends, and I'm fully within my rights to write an RP on January 1st. Theres no rule against it.
And thats the problem with saying the RP takes precidence over the rules. The rules without RP is a strategy wargame. The RP without the rules is Fanfic. Last I knew, the FGC was a game still.
re-routing = bad idea.
assembled new units doing anything other then going poof = bad idea.
I could see my way to that FP being captured as salvage but even that is far more work then I think worth it.
And this is why
#1) MORE work for the GM's more chances for abuse by players on fudging the numbers as it becomes more complicated. It doesn't even have to be on purpose it could easily be an accident. That's why players have to post where the force they are building will appear so that if that world gets lost they lose them.
#2) The rules as they stand now allow someone to create huge force's and have them pop up anywhere and nobody seems to have a problem with that in how they want to "revise the rules" they just don't want their exposed infra to cost them that huge force they were building on the border if it gets taken out.
#3) Lets be honest people do this for one very good reason. Logistics. You need forces on your border but if your main infra is there defending it is to costly not to defend it like its your capital. But by being able to have it "appear with one or two infra there its very useful.
The ability for that major new force you were building to go poof prevents rampant abuse of #3 while not forcing every new unit to form on Hesperus II, Irian, Tharkad, Menke etc.
It also gives opponents the oppurtunity to pearl harbor you by hitting those border infra worlds with raids or invasions to take out those facilities before a big state can wtf pawn them with giant new units that spawn out of those single and dual factory worlds.
Here's an scenario...
say the HA wants to build another Invictus class dreadnought. With our limited SY capacity, it's going to take a number of cycles to finish, and so we have notated Onverwacht as the location on our spreadsheet (as per the rules). For three cycles it's building merrily awaiting and is half finished (gotta wait for those MDM launchers to arrive!!). Fourth cycle, and constructing continues on, but the FedSuns sends in a mass attack to take out Onverwacht.
Under your proposal I can stargate a half finished Invictus to the Clan Homeworlds and finish it there, with no loss of SY (except perhaps the points from the lost SY at Onverwacht).
We have simplified the rules down as they are so that GM oversight is minimal to observe the construction and movement of FP (as you have mentioned). But surely with the requirement to nail down on our spreadsheets where the finished product is going to become active, at least we have some defining point of reference, rather than just being allowed to stargate all over the place.
I understand being able to forward your production to a place. For the Clans it's a necessity. For the IS, I don't know if it's the norm, but I remember being told as the FS that I had to spend MP to move parts, so I did. As the Ravens it didn't matter, I had the MP to do anything I want and still sell thousands of MP to others :P
But once you declare something is built somewhere, it should be there. On what part of the turn, this unit comes "Into existance" is on the GM. I propose that the unit is created at the start of the round. The orders state that it is done if "Phase one", but instead of stating the unit is not there, or that it poofs out of existance, how about allowing new unit to "Defend Only" until the end of the turn? Just an idea.
Alright folks...here is my take as a PLAYER this is not necessarily going to be my ruling but it will probably have a major effect on said ruling.
Example : Skye had a Fox building at Donegal (hex 1720) (it was started in Turn 41 completes turn 45 is active turn 46). According to how I interpreted the rule as a player I was using all of my SY capacity to build that single fox with attendant DS/ASF so it cost me 25 RP for the FOx then another 40 for the ASF and droppers. I had paid for everything. In turn 45 Donegal was lost to the CLP. So I lost all of that production since the unit was to be present there. According to how the system works I could have had that unit appear at Skye. In hind sight I probably should have done just that.
The issue I am seeing here is timing this game is an abstarction of large scale interstellar combat. As a player I had no issue with the above example I took a risk building that FOx at Donegal because I needed it close to the front. Factions who have exposed infra get the short end of the stick since they lose options on where to deploy thier forces. Small factions do not have a lot of options and have this issue as well. The rules allow for production to be focused on any hex where there is an MF or SY, That is still reasonable. I feel that the rules as written work fairly well if they are not abused.
As it is I lose any capacity on a world when it changes hands and any new construction. Is it fair maybe not does it save paper work definately. Now it would make sense if we tracked percentages complete etc. etc. for units under construction to be added to the defense but who really wants to track 60ths of a unit? I sure don't just because I spend enough time looking at spread sheets and I'm sure that factions with fat bank rolls would hate having to have thier math double checked it would slow things down for combat resolution and we have enough issues with that already...(more)
Well, if you want to argue the hard rules: 1) Construction Rules in the second rules reply explicitly state that the hex where the unit is to be built must be stated in advance. But more over 2) the following post under GM rules gives GMs discression to alter the rules to suit any on going RP as needed, giving a rules structure that does demonstrate the primacy of RP over rules.
That said, refrencing that second point, for an all out attack on a faction's capitol world by an implacable enemy know to have subjigated allies in the recent past may be specal enough to alow a half built unit to join the fray. That is a case where the rules are designed to let RP drive rules.
I also see the other side of the coin. Construction is not considered movement if it was large factions obviously would have the advatage of nice deep MP pools while smaller factions would have to choose carefully. I have seen the "Pearl Harbor effect" of large forces appearing in a hex that a faction was about to hit due to construction. Having the shiny new unit is a good thing. There are several ways I can rule on this and regardless of how I rule I will have at least one person who will not be happy. I personnaly like the rules how they are but with all the discussion over where/what happens to production I am forced to make a ruling. That will be placed in it's own topic and stickied once complete.
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on June 15, 2011, 03:30:05 PM
Well, if you want to argue the hard rules: 1) Construction Rules in the second rules reply explicitly state that the hex where the unit is to be built must be stated in advance. But more over 2) the following post under GM rules gives GMs discression to alter the rules to suit any on going RP as needed, giving a rules structure that does demonstrate the primacy of RP over rules.
That said, refrencing that second point, for an all out attack on a faction's capitol world by an implacable enemy know to have subjigated allies in the recent past may be specal enough to alow a half built unit to join the fray. That is a case where the rules are designed to let RP drive rules.
Good point IM very good point.
QuoteConstruction is not considered movement if it was large factions obviously would have the advatage of nice deep MP pools while smaller factions would have to choose carefully
As the Fed Suns, I never had enough MP :P Their Navy was decemated and their Army was huge and Transported.
[rant]When we were debating the role of Recharge stations before, there was no explaination for the HUGE costs for the faciltiy. I mean, it's the most expensive type of infrastructure and yes, you do get a full RP from it, but when you think about a recharge station you think about movement and what the hell are you going to do with only 5 MP? Move 1 FP - 5 Hexes? Who'se going to invest in that for anything other then Role-Playing when you can make MF's and SY's that actually do something for you.
There are plenty of ways to change the lack of effectiveness of these station, extending the movement of a friendly unit that moves thru the Hex by 1 (2 for LF Mobile), upping the amount of MP created to 50, increasing a Factions MP Pool by 2%, assigning a number of charges to a station, etc. I've seen so many inventive suggestions in the previous thread I was very dissapointed to see nothing changed about this.[/rant]
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on June 15, 2011, 03:30:05 PM
the following post under GM rules gives GMs discression to alter the rules to suit any on going RP as needed, giving a rules structure that does demonstrate the primacy of RP over rules.
It does not demonstrate a primacy of RP over rules, it gives GMs the option to alter a rule for special circumstance IF the RP is there. Of course, that requires people actually write RP, and there hasn't been very much of that going on.
Since we're on the subject of hexes and hex improvements, I would like to see a faction lose the Construction Capacity of a hex if it's terrorized. Doesn't make much sense to lose the RP those facilities generate, but then allow them to keep pumping troops out. In cannon, if Hesperus II went down, the Lyran war machine would grind to a halt. Not the case here(assuming the Lyrans still held HesII) because the number of MFs on it is barely worth mentioning compared to some worlds. However, it stands to reason that losing your income would also affect your production. Care to comment?
I also agree with Fate that the Recharge Stations are woefully over priced considering the minimalist boost they give. You're much better served by building the same RPs worth of Mobile ASF, which doesn't make much sense. HI should prove something that their equivlent cost in military forces can't give you: ICs give you communications and income, MFs give you production and RP, SYs give you production and RP. Why are RS the only useless improvement?
Im not arguing what the rules say, I'm arguing their intent vs whats written. It says the unit needs to be stated in advance- I say thats an incomplete statement. It should be chosen in advance, with the provision that if the primary site is taken, it reverts to a secondary location, perhaps one that doesn't get listed, but is the faction's backup hex. I think its a horrid idea to say that you lose all the RP you invested into building forces because you got unlucky that someone attacked the world you chose to build at. And, if we're going with the idea that they're stuck on that world, its total BS to me to not allow those units to defend the location they're stuck at.
Also, IM/Grae:
would appreciate even a token response to the combat threads for: Tangua, Mahone, Kolovraty, Hood IV, Jesenice, Newton Square. Also, Minderoo goes foreward, because of DR's ruling about map issues messing with movement paths. Even if the response is flat refusal, I need to know before the deadline so I know what my forces are doing there.
I'll look into it, though it may be a bit (I've got my orders on a computer, rather than in the cloud, so I can only get to them some of the time and not other parts of the time, where as I can debate rules anytime I can get on line).
As to recharge stations, I've been on about that for years. But, since they're useless and no one ever builds them, no one ever really bothers about them, either.
When I build new space stations, it kinda seems mandatory to me to have them :P So I build them there. :P Since I'm building them, I figured, bring it up again ;) As they say in the transportation biz, "The squeeky wheel gets the grease." :P
No, i torture my squeaky wheels untill they stop squeeking. Then i give them grease.
Reverse psychology on inanimate objects- it works
Quote from: Deathrider6 on June 15, 2011, 03:28:50 PM
Alright folks...here is my take as a PLAYER this is not necessarily going to be my ruling but it will probably have a major effect on said ruling.
Example : Skye had a Fox building at Donegal (hex 1720) (it was started in Turn 41 completes turn 45 is active turn 46). According to how I interpreted the rule as a player I was using all of my SY capacity to build that single fox with attendant DS/ASF so it cost me 25 RP for the FOx then another 40 for the ASF and droppers. I had paid for everything. In turn 45 Donegal was lost to the CLP. So I lost all of that production since the unit was to be present there. According to how the system works I could have had that unit appear at Skye. In hind sight I probably should have done just that.
The issue I am seeing here is timing this game is an abstarction of large scale interstellar combat. As a player I had no issue with the above example I took a risk building that FOx at Donegal because I needed it close to the front. Factions who have exposed infra get the short end of the stick since they lose options on where to deploy thier forces. Small factions do not have a lot of options and have this issue as well. The rules allow for production to be focused on any hex where there is an MF or SY, That is still reasonable. I feel that the rules as written work fairly well if they are not abused.
As it is I lose any capacity on a world when it changes hands and any new construction. Is it fair maybe not does it save paper work definately. Now it would make sense if we tracked percentages complete etc. etc. for units under construction to be added to the defense but who really wants to track 60ths of a unit? I sure don't just because I spend enough time looking at spread sheets and I'm sure that factions with fat bank rolls would hate having to have thier math double checked it would slow things down for combat resolution and we have enough issues with that already...(more)
My point Deathrider is how the rules work what you did with regards to Donegal is exactly how it works. When you start building a unit you declare when its finished it will show up at Hex # blah, in your cast 1730.
You have to declare it when you first start building it when the money and MF/SY points are first begun to be put toward it and it cannot change from that point on.
For someone to suddenly say Its at Skye is the problem and a case of abuse.
That would be 1720 chaos.
And I agree with you as for Demonknight's point on terrorism it also has merit but that is another can of worms I really don't want to deal with. I see thongs that could be done better in my opinion. I 'm sure everybody does I'm just not willing to put a game on again so I can rewrite rules since most (if not all ) work fairly well. One again there is also the fact that there is no real winner in this game since the object while everyone wants thier faction ascendant is to have fun doing something we enjoy.
I'm happy to see rules discussions back in a rules thread where we know how to find it later : )
In regards to the New Hope Station: Was it not so that the attacker stated his forces with him so the defender could choose what he would defend with? If so, there is a big lecture of the Steel Viper in order. :D
Also, my inner Patriot wants to bid everything there is at his disposal but that would create many other problems. Meta and ingame. Meta: chaos you have 3 Ships there, right? I have none, but yet enough FP to at least threaten them. :/ Unwieldy for Megamek. Not to mention the political backlash of this.
So, what to do?
I mean, its a Regional Capital, once the real capital and stuff. So all should speak for bidding all. Gotta think about that.
BTW: loved your Grand Council bit. As always when you go aggressive and I am not the victim. :D
Remember New Hope Station is a space station.
Quote from: Marlin on June 16, 2011, 06:32:39 PM
In regards to the New Hope Station: Was it not so that the attacker stated his forces with him so the defender could choose what he would defend with? If so, there is a big lecture of the Steel Viper in order. :D
Also, my inner Patriot wants to bid everything there is at his disposal but that would create many other problems. Meta and ingame. Meta: chaos you have 3 Ships there, right? I have none, but yet enough FP to at least threaten them. :/ Unwieldy for Megamek. Not to mention the political backlash of this.
So, what to do?
I mean, its a Regional Capital, once the real capital and stuff. So all should speak for bidding all. Gotta think about that.
BTW: loved your Grand Council bit. As always when you go aggressive and I am not the victim. :D
I know that. What do you conclude outta that fact?
You do not like to answer me, right? Gotta learn to live with that. :(
But I would still like opinions from you peeps.
Quote from: Marlin on June 16, 2011, 06:32:39 PM
BTW: loved your Grand Council bit. As always when you go aggressive and I am not the victim. :D
I do like his Crusaderness. :) I look forward to laying the smacketh down!
Sorry missed this.
Yeah I Sent 3 warships because it was a space station and a regional capital so I was expecting a big fight. Better part of a Galaxy and a half too.
And I did state what I have 1 Front Line Galaxy portions of a Garison Galaxy and 3 Points of a Naval Star.
By the way to be clear. I am not requiring a large large fight. You want to do a Star on Star fight in Zero Gravity Im fine with it. Mind you I was hoping you had a warship present because well I love Warship fights and I figured going for something like this would give me a chance for a single ship on single ship engagement.
What holt is trying to explain is bidding everything would work against you in MM I think. Can Mechs and Elementals fight in Space? Sure. Are they anything other then targets for a warship? nope.
And if you bid everything I have the "honorable" option of bidding everything and then it is not much of a trial. Mind you its an important world so bid apropriately.
P.S.
The clan bidding system works as such.
Attacker = I am so and so of Clan Whosiwhatsits with what forces do you contest our claim?
Defender = I am so and so of Clan Pink Fluffy Bunny I bid such and such in defense of our enclave/technology/purple people eater as we are far better bred and more honorable then Clan Whosiwhatsits
Attacker = internal bidding among lower commanders. We will face you with X forces as our honor is even greater and our breeding far less inbred.
P.P.S.
I assumed the response coming from a Star Commodore meant you had a warship or two there. I mean a Star Commodore without a Warship is a little silly. ;-)
Quote from: Marlin on June 16, 2011, 06:32:39 PM
In regards to the New Hope Station: Was it not so that the attacker stated his forces with him so the defender could choose what he would defend with? If so, there is a big lecture of the Steel Viper in order. :D
Also, my inner Patriot wants to bid everything there is at his disposal but that would create many other problems. Meta and ingame. Meta: chaos you have 3 Ships there, right? I have none, but yet enough FP to at least threaten them. :/ Unwieldy for Megamek. Not to mention the political backlash of this.
So, what to do?
I mean, its a Regional Capital, once the real capital and stuff. So all should speak for bidding all. Gotta think about that.
BTW: loved your Grand Council bit. As always when you go aggressive and I am not the victim. :D
chaos: could be that you are right in Canon. Could also be that it has been forgotten but I think I remember that the rules for a batchall of the attacker involved the revelation of their forces total they brought.
Perhaps that is long gone and was only part of the 62 starting stuff when Trials really were common. Anyone else on that?
And Star Commodore: Whoever has command of large formations for Space only (on a Space Station) I would not give the rank of Star Colonel, but rather COmmodore.
And sorry, I have my Warships elsewhere to get nuked. :P The Cluster here is still fairly large but perhaps not more than you brought in Naval force, but of course they are not Mechs. They are Marines and fighters. As the station is very important.. I think I just have to bid all I have. :P I know it will become interesting afterwards and the problems of that I have already listed. TOo bad I have no advisor (other than my Cats. ;) )
Quotehttp://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=2854.msg23422#msg23422
Marlin, at least it was an init roll and not a combat roll :P (I always feel for those who roll 2's :P)
QuoteI assumed the response coming from a Star Commodore meant you had a warship or two there. I mean a Star Commodore without a Warship is a little silly. ;-)
Actually any fighter group of decent size (Cluster or above) can also be constituted as a Star Commodore, especially when it's a dedicated Naval Escort or guarding a Space Station :P I define whether I use a Star Colonel or Star Comodore by which tab I have the unit listed on :P
QuoteAnd if you bid everything I have the "honorable" option of bidding everything and then it is not much of a trial. Mind you its an important world so bid apropriately
A planet can chose to defend with everything, and still have honor if you've decalared a larger attacking force. If you want honor, your obliged to bid down, there is no "Honorable" Super-overbid. It's looked at as pathetic and weak, especially against spheroids. If it's an invasion, call it an invasion and don't sully the word trial ;)
Yeah, not much hope for the ship, But could be that many more will suffer.. and subsequently, the people.. :P
We will see. It will all be cleared soon.. one way or another.
Remember folks combat ends on the 25th I will be talking a look at several combat threads to ensure the rules are being followed. You guys are doing a pretty good job of self policing and asking for clairfactions and assistance. I would like that to continue. I will be on briefly Saturday afternoon my time to check things over. If anything requires my full attention I will be dealing with it Sunday.
Yeah I shouldn't have too but if Marlin is just wanting me to post my total force points that I could possibly use for the trial first before he makes his defensive bid and then I will make my offensive bid *shrugs* fine.
Quote from: Marlin on June 17, 2011, 07:47:31 PM
chaos: could be that you are right in Canon. Could also be that it has been forgotten but I think I remember that the rules for a batchall of the attacker involved the revelation of their forces total they brought.
This is correct. Codices are exchanged before any bidding is done. You are entitled to know which Galaxies and Warships you face before determining how you will face them.
It's also worth noting that the choice of venue is to the defender.
It is quite possible, for example, to bid everything you have and insist on fighting inside the station or on a nearby lifeless rock. Or even in another system entirely.
In order to deny the Defender this chance, the Attacker can actually preempt the Defender's bid, functionally becoming the Defender themselves.
I'm not sure any of that is how the FGC rules actually work though. Been a while, and I should probably refresh my memory.
Thing is Jedi Bear I did that.
Galaxy Commander etc and Omicron Galaxy with elements of Pi Galaxy along with 3 Points of Delta Naval Star.
Was very clear from the get go who was there to take their stuff.
Oh, the many many questions I've asked people regarding the specifics of declaring combats. The following is how I follow the rules.
The attacker and defender must declare actions and forces. However, they can use general words to describe these forces if they are trying to play their hands to their chest. It is not until forces actually meet that specific force lists must be declared, although, it is considered good form to give a description of what people can see with the naked eye. Example: "The forces of the New Dominion arrive at the Nadir Point, jump signatures of various masses show a large fleet pushing into Draconis space..."
I myself would typically include number of jump signatures and mention how many larger ones are there that can only be warships, etc.
If an interdiction is declared, then you declare your intentions to stay put, go home, engage it, or try to have your ground forces run the unknown orbital defenders. The total FP's for that engaggement must be declared in the thread at that time. Specific can be sent via PM or just put in the post if you don't care about keeping it a secret, but must be sent to your opponent. When you take damage to your units, inform your opponent how you split up the damage. Where you take damage is your choice. I got to watch half a Terran Fleet survive with less then 1 FP each because of that :P
Now for Clan Trials, I'm honorable, so I transmit aaaaall data to my opponent immediately with my batchall. The Defender chooses his forces and the location.
I've only overbid a defensive bid once since I've been playing, and that was because I strongly believe all 7 ships would have been needed to face off against that Leviathan II the Bears sent to outpost. Yes, the FP was nearly twice what the Levi II was worth, but still.... IT WAS A LEVI II! :P Plus the challenge was for my only Inner Sphere holding and I did not have the time to relocate while trying to plan my attacks against the TH :P
The attacker bid should almost always be an underbid! Even if it's a token -.25 FP off a large defender's bid. I will always give mad props to the Star Adders for taking that 3 to 1 challenge and beating me. :P Dishonorable as their use of physical attacks to end the fight was, the accomplishment itself outshined that flaw in the Adder's behavior, and oh yes, I will remember it for the next time ;) I find 1-3 FP challenges to be managable in megamek and try to stick in that range. Outside factors like alliances and rivalries figure into my bidding as well. I rarely underbid against a Viper, and I give Blood Spirits better odds.
In as much as there's no consesus, this Adder/Mandrill/Mongoose/whatever (though not as a Jaguar, since I tend to play them as an extra specal sort of ultra concervitive) has always tended to feel that physical attacks are just an extention of their mech's native capabilities and a demonstration of the warrior's skill (the change to TW rules that links physical attacks to piloting skill helps this argument), even though this Adder/Mandrill/Mongoose/whatever is aware that many of his opponents will tend to frown on his tactics. He invites them to face him in a circle of equals (a really small one that favors point blank combat ;) ) if they take issue with it.
As to bidding, the problem with bidding in canon vs bidding with FP is that in canon, its quite possible to bid a 'smaller' force that is infact 'stronger' by having more weight or skill or speed than its opponents. So, if the Adders bid to defend a world with a green binary of light clan mechs (.75 FP) and the Falcons bid to take the world with a single star of elite warriors in medium clan mechs mechs (if I do the math in my head right, this is 50% more FP) then we, though the OOC lense of our FP system, would see this as dishonorable, while a purely IC, canon-esq Clanner would be able to view that as quite an acomplishment, using half the number of mechs and a smaller amount of total tonnage (depending on the exact bid, but let's say it is) to win; if the Adder warriors are poor and the Falcon ones are not, then that's the Adder's problem, and not the Falcon's problem. But, with that OOC lense in place, the Falcons would need to oppose that binary with far less than a star (I think three mechs would do it).
IC, Clanners want to put themselves in a position where its their combat skill that makes the difrence between victory and defeat (in that first example, if the Adders were veterans and the Falcons were regulars, they'd have little chance to win; only the Falcon's superior skill enables a relitively easy win). In this game, we're asking forces to not just put them selves in a place were its in the hands of skill as a warrior, we're asking them to factor skill in, and since MM is rare, simply put themselves in a place where it up to luck, and they're on the wrong end of the odds. I don't think, speaking for myself OOC as a player and also IC as a Clanner, that that is really what Kerensky had in mind.
If MM was on the table, that would be difrent. I've got no problem winning or losing by my own MM skill, since I have confidance in myself. But I've got not a lick of confidance in the RNG to win me battles, and I'm loath to make it's job any harder, no matter what IC needs might offer.
I don't know that there's a solution contained in there. Its just how I feel about it.
There is always a chance to abuse the power, no matter which way you do things. In the Flashpoint game, a "Fair" FP exchange was a super legedary trinary of Wolf's Dragoons fighters vs a Thera and it's escorts :P FP wise, they were equal, but in reality, I don't care how good you are, without fiat or some other special event, your not going to be able to make up that difference in an actual game.
In the FGC picking your forces with FP can be completely unbalancing as well. A binary of mechs can vary completly and factions that go for personality over twinkage, can find themselves easily outbalanced. The following match up is no where near equal, but are each worth .6 FP
Team 1 (13997 BV)
Executioner A
Turkina B
Dire Wolf C
Team 2 (7651 BV)
Bane
Gargoyle Prime
Pheonix Hark IIC
When I first joined up with the FGC, there were the trials for the Star League Naval Stars and the GM's warned us not to twink out our forces. I made sure to pick a diverse group from my faction, only to have to face off against a star of Pulse / Tarcomp monsters. The loss cost me a star with a Monsoon in it and I learned the essense of the FGC, people will do what they want. I choose to keep flavor in my forces and will do my damndest to add good mechs to my RAT so that I can pick good mechs and still keep my flair. ;)
To be clear, I still prefer the FP system over RAT charts because I don't like to be limited to what I can use. :P
Well, its not a perfict example, since the worse force is second liners and therefore inferior, the Clans would consider that a 'fair' fight, since each side is using three points of force. Impetus of War offers a very similar example, where Loran Jeffereys and the Highlanders are faced with a bid of five points of second line force. Since they are impersonating front line (therefore cocksure) Jaguars, they are advised it would be "In Cherictor" to bid just four points of force... of front line omni mechs. But, Loren bids five, which while not an honor winning under bid is considered fair and ballanced.
The problem is, the Clans would consider sending six light mechs up against either force 'unfair' and an over bid, even if our FP system would consider it fair, and BV might say any number of difrent things depending on the mechs. And if the front line force given was elite, that match up would still be 'fair.' If the second liners lose (and IC any clanner watching would expect them to) its their own fualt. If their Clan was strong, it would have given them better mechs (even second liners could have had access to an Imp C and, a Whammy IIC, and a Gargoyle D, which would give that front line force a hell of a time with the same tonnage of mechs) and if they were skillful, they would have been able to overcome their disadvantage in mechs (put elites in thouse second liners and the BV, and the fight, gets a bit closer, especaly given the speed of the Gargoyle and P-Hawk to avoid fire and pick range, and its possible to imagine the second liners winning). After all, the Clans value warriors over their mechs (some Clans more, some less so).
The system is what it is. If you really want to game the system, you can. If you don't, you may very well get taken by an unscrupulious opponent who does (who will quickly get a reputation, and then everyone will know not to give them an inch, while you get a rep for being a good guy, and other good guys won't tend to game you).
But, the system is I think a poor reflection of how an IC Clanner would tend to view things, so when we talk about winning or loseing honor by under or over bidding, I think that FP is not always a good guide.
I use the Gargoyle in my front line units, just usually not the Prime. ;) Still, the point was not to point out mech choices, but the variance between mechs in the same category. It doesn't matter if their 2nd line units, they're worth the same FP and people haven't bid down and rightfully so. That was just an example of some of the sucky assaults. I can easily make a 2nd line unit that could stand up to any Front line unit.
Bane 3
Highlander IIC
Marauder IIC
In regards to the 6 lights vs 3 assaults, I know I wouldn't. If I were facing off against Hellions, I'd expect to see at least 9 Lights vs 3 Assaults as their Pack Zell allows. (1 Light vs 1 Light, 1 light vs 1 Medium, 2 Light vs 1 Heavy, 3 Lights vs 1 Assault) and in any situation, they can substitute 2 lights for 1 medium (1 Med vs 1 Heavy, 1 light & 1 medium vs 1 assault) It's not about the numbers, but the quality and skill.
QuoteBut, the system is I think a poor reflection of how an IC Clanner would tend to view things, so when we talk about winning or losing honor by under or over bidding, I think that FP is not always a good guide.
I agree to this. RP should come first in trials, but as we've seen over and over, some people have been doing trials, "By the rules" and the rules called trials invasions, and as long as you followed the invasion rules, the GM's didn't care that what was going on was unclanlike. There were no rules set up for Clanners to do "Call Down" bids and those people that opted to reinforce their trials from huge call down pools abused the system because all it proved was that if you send enough soldiers at something, eventually you will win.
I liked the old rule were trails were 1 round of combat unless there was a tie or an RP reason to continue. People who feel that their combat should not be dictated by 1 roll because they can roll a 2 and it shouldn't reflect the combat, aren't thinking about the potential RP or the fact that Clanners should be trying to prevent wastefulness. The dice gods, they be fickle, but you should roll with it. I've rolled plenty of sucky rolls.
While not a "Trial" example, I didn't want the TH / WiE to live thru Orestes, but my rolls sucked and they did. How did I RP it off? The Jade Falcons found out they had a chance to Finish off the Dezgra Wolves and did a Risky maneuver in a mindless assault on the WIE position and were denied by a coordinated defense. I took my licks, and moved on.
yeah, thanks again for RPing away our inability to kill the Wolves on my faction :P jerk ;)
As far as I know, Trials are actually considered 'Battle' type orders, as opposed to Invasions(techniclly, an Invasion is a series of Battles/Raids, with whoever gets to 3 victories first 'winning' the invasion). Now, we don't actually see much of that(especially the 3-combat then retreat portion), but thats how the rules are actually written down last I looked through them. A Trial is always 1 die roll(except in a tie), though I've never actually worked out which gives you victory- more damage, or the winning roll? Because if you bid a smaller force and roll a 10, but your opponent rolls a 9, he is likly doing more damage, even though you actually 'fought better'. And then Criticals get involved and muddy it further.
Well, my take on that is that Clan trials are over when they're over. So, if one side takes a lot of damage and calls 'uncle' (which is seen reasonably often in canon, and considered a mark of honor, in knowing when you've been beaten and avoiding waste) then its over. But, if that party would sooner fight to the death, then there's plenty of honor in that, too (at least if the target is at least moderately important; fighting to the death over a spoon would be pretty wasteful).
So I would think that rather than one side declairing victory, it would be a case of the other side conceeding defeat, as being the most in line with how I tend to see canon Clan trials working. Of course, sometimes someone who's at ease with a bit of legal manuvering (or just lieing, like Amy Lynn) may simply declare victory where there is none, or where there is some uncertanty, and hope to get away with it (which, for the record, I did in the example above) but that is what it is.
After all, how else to model something like the Hellions' first strike? (I actualy played a trial out like that once, too, which was wildly rediculious)
I must disagree with your notion about fighting to the death as it pertains to the Clans. They abhor waste in all forms, and dying to the last man(unless the odds are dead even, or in favor of the Clan in question) is never going to be seen as honorable if it does not gain victory. Dying in combat in and of itself is not an honorable end- dying in pursuit of victory is. If you are heavily outgunned/outnumbered, with little chance for victory, but you charge in anyways 'to take as many down with you as possible', thats about as wasteful as you can get. Even Aidan's last stand was only honorable because of the lives he saved, not because he took down X enemies on his own.
However, from an RP sense, yes, one side either requests/accepts hegira and is defeated. I just doubt many people will actually RP this out, or else will take a very loose interpertation of the Clans' hatred of wasting men or materials.
Wellll, I'm not so sure about that. Three ten-ship squadrons of maximum-munch heavy Omnifighters with 0/1 pilots would tear up pretty much any warship (with
no fighters because of the order the Thera selected), even if they take heavy losses in return. But that touches on one of the big problems with Flashpoint which was that I didn't spend enough time teaching every one the (
very different from FGC) rules when I had the free time to do so. But... the trials and tribulations of Flashpoint are a totally different discussion.
Quote from: Fatebringer on June 20, 2011, 08:03:06 PM
There is always a chance to abuse the power, no matter which way you do things. In the Flashpoint game, a "Fair" FP exchange was a super legedary trinary of Wolf's Dragoons fighters vs a Thera and it's escorts :P FP wise, they were equal, but in reality, I don't care how good you are, without fiat or some other special event, your not going to be able to make up that difference in an actual game.
hopefully when GIC comes out, such issues will be resolved- especially because I'll hopefully still be running the Navy :P
Quote from: Daemonknight on June 21, 2011, 07:21:40 AM
I must disagree with your notion about fighting to the death as it pertains to the Clans. They abhor waste in all forms, and dying to the last man(unless the odds are dead even, or in favor of the Clan in question) is never going to be seen as honorable if it does not gain victory. Dying in combat in and of itself is not an honorable end- dying in pursuit of victory is. If you are heavily outgunned/outnumbered, with little chance for victory, but you charge in anyways 'to take as many down with you as possible', thats about as wasteful as you can get. Even Aidan's last stand was only honorable because of the lives he saved, not because he took down X enemies on his own.
However, from an RP sense, yes, one side either requests/accepts hegira and is defeated. I just doubt many people will actually RP this out, or else will take a very loose interpertation of the Clans' hatred of wasting men or materials.
Hmmm...the 11th Kowloonese Coast Guard Relief Company, Kwangchowwang, 3069 (or thereabouts?) demonstrated this principle rather precisely against the Star Adders-when the Adders broke their bid, the Coastie infantry accepted hegira, and walked out with a moral victory and serious bragging rights even in the midst of losing the planet.
It is not dishonourable to offer, or accept, Hegira when the imbalance in firepower and manpower are both quite severe-for the side with the advantage, it can be seen to be a sign of great strength to be able to make the offer, and accepting it carries no shame (at least, if you actually READ the rule of Zellbriggen). In the Kwangchowwang example, the Adders broke bid and called down a full cluster on the remains of what amounts to a reinforced light infantry company that had managed to out-manuever and out fight a roughly equivalent force of Clan vehicle and BA troops-the rough imbalance added up to more than 10 to 1 odds if the Coasties kept fighting after the Adders broke their bid (based on survivor counts, the next round would have been at 20 to 1.)
By offering Hegira at that point, the Adders salvaged some of the honour lost in breaking their bid that severely under the rules of Zellbriggen. the fundamental rule of Clan ROE is that it's not enough to merely "win", you have to look good doing it. On a clan scale, the Coasties there made their opponents look foolish and bumbling, particularly since they didn't break Zell themselves in the combat- This is a key element for Inner Sphere forces fighting the Clans for the first time, and one that the Lyrans have just exploited this turn in a rather massive way-by waging Trials and not breaking Zell, they've hammered the Star Adders pretty thoroughly at minimal loss to themselves, and so long as they don't break Zell, they're racking up reputation at the expense of their opponents.
Of course, the Lyrans should be offering Hegira if they want to retain those gains in reputation as they take worlds from the Star Adders-this will, among other things, make the Lyran Alliance look stronger by far to other potential 'playmates' in the Clan Sphere-after all, they demonstrate that they are strong enough to let an honourable foe go, rahter than waste men and materiel (and risk Collateral Damage) trying to hunt him down to the last man.
Well, as I say, its an RP thing. But, I think that RP is the mechanism for settling these close battles, rather than just a review of the dice rolls. Yes, Hegira is something to be offered to an opponent who is respected and who has fought well but is clearly not going to win (though even then, both in canon [Twycross] and in this game [Amanda Carrol was killed by a one legged mech that had only two working weapons and needed 10s to hit that had no reasonable chance to win asside from the maraculious shot that it infact made] we've seen warriors fight back from hopeless situations and win, so an IC rational for not accepting hegira always exists). But, if either condition is not met, if the opponent was not someone you respect, or if victory is in doubt, then it should stay off the table.
That I think is the only point, that the resualts of trials that don't go to the bitter end should be an RP thing, and even the right to fight to the bitter end or not (against a very hated enemy, or in defense of a very specal prize, or by solahma warriors just looking for death for its own sake) should be an RP thing.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on June 21, 2011, 07:39:43 AM
Wellll, I'm not so sure about that. Three ten-ship squadrons of maximum-munch heavy Omnifighters with 0/1 pilots would tear up pretty much any warship (with no fighters because of the order the Thera selected), even if they take heavy losses in return. But that touches on one of the big problems with Flashpoint which was that I didn't spend enough time teaching every one the (very different from FGC) rules when I had the free time to do so. But... the trials and tribulations of Flashpoint are a totally different discussion.
Quote from: Fatebringer on June 20, 2011, 08:03:06 PM
There is always a chance to abuse the power, no matter which way you do things. In the Flashpoint game, a "Fair" FP exchange was a super legedary trinary of Wolf's Dragoons fighters vs a Thera and it's escorts :P FP wise, they were equal, but in reality, I don't care how good you are, without fiat or some other special event, your not going to be able to make up that difference in an actual game.
If it did come down to Clan Trinary on Thera, the Thera still win without taking any serious damage. It may not have a ton of Capital weapons, but what they do have are oodles of anti-fighter weapons.
8 ER Large Lasers
8 Large Pulse
8 Medium Pulse
8 Small Pulse
2 LB-10X
2 LRM 20's
2 SRM 6
4 AMS
Capital Laser bay that can target Fighters well.
Capital AC bay that can obliterate a fighter in one shot.
And that's just the front arc. It has the same weapons in every arc, but adds a Barracuda missle and more NAC's for the other arcs. ;) While Capital AC's have the penalty to hit, if they do, they devastate.
This isn't a rules debate so much as a solid, "these fighters were doomed", statement. The aspect of space combat states that the most you can get for a defensive movement modifier without sacraficing your fire as an ASF is 2 + Range and that depends on you keeping a predictable attack vector. Even Clan Fighters have their limits in firepower and ammunition (Most Clan fighters are ammo Hogs and can only make a few passes before having to go resupply).
So while the Clan Fighters would be pretty much auto-hitting when they get close, they just can't hurt a monster like a thera quick enough and Range doesn't help them. Even with the hardest hitting crew, There's no way they could get thru nearly 300 points of armor per side before they were space dust. I mean, oh look, I'm down a 1/3 of my armor on that side, <<Roll>> Aaaah, that's better!
The best thing the Clans have is the Hydaspes, that's 7 pts of damage a turn consistant. The LRMs have 16 ammo each which it is a good supply, and it has plenty of other weapons and tons of armor. However, a traditional Clan Fighter like the Khirgiz though, only has 250 pts of armor, and has enough ammo to fire it's LRM's for 6 turns. So for 6 turns it can do a MAX 12 damage, but the average is more like 8 because of Missles. After that, it drop to 5. I'll never understand why some designs will have 24 shots for the Guass, but only 6 shots for the LRM's ;P The AC20 Carriers also usually carry low ammo such as the Khirghiz C only carring 10 shots for a for a UAC so go double rate, you last 5 turns :P
Well, far be it for me to turn this into a 'fighters vs warships' argument but...
A) Why would fighters making a strike against an enemy warship want to loiter more than 5 or 6 turns anyway?
B) lets take a more detailed look at what would be on the board...
Star 1/Section 1
1 Xerxes
1 Scytha '
1 Kirghiz '
2 Jenghiz A
9 ERLL = 9 Cap
4 ERPPC = 6 Cap
8 LPL = 8 Cap
2 GR = 3 Cap
3 UAC20 = 9 Cap
1 LB10X = 1 Cap
Maximum damage per turn: 36
Star 1/Section 2
1 Jenghiz B
1 Kirghiz A
1 Scytha B
1 Schtha C
1 Hydaspes
3 GR = 5 Cap
2 ERLL = 2 Cap
6 ERPPC = 9 Cap
8 LPL = 8 Cap
6 MPL = 4 Cap
2 LRM-15 = 2 Cap
2 LRM-20 = 2 Cap
Maximum damage per turn: 32
Star 2/Section 1
1 Jenghiz '
1 Scytha '
1 Kirghiz '
1 Jenghiz A
1 Jenghiz B
1 LB10X = 1 cap
1 UAC20 = 3 cap
1 GR = 2 cap
5 ERPPC = 8 cap
5 ERLL = 5 cap
6 LPL = 6 cap
2 MPL = 1 cap
2 ERML = 1 cap
2 SRM6 = 2 cap
2 LRM20 = 2 cap
Maximum damage per turn: 31
*has ECM
Star 2/Section 2
1 Jenghiz B
1 Kirghiz A
1 Scytha B
1 Scytha C
1 Kirghiz C
1 UAC20 = 3 cap
3 GR = 5 cap
8 ERPPC = 12 cap
11 LPL = 11 cap
2 LRM20 = 2 cap
2 ERML = 1 cap
Max damage per turn: 34
Star 3/Section 1
1 Jenghiz '
1 Scytha '
1 Kirghiz '
1 Jenghiz A
1 Jenghiz B
1 UAC20 = 3 cap
2 LB10X = 2 cap
3 GR = 5 cap
7 ERLL = 7 cap
5 ERPPC = 8 cap
6 LPL = 6 cap
2 MPL = 1 cap
2 ERML = 1 cap
2 SRM6 = 2 cap
2 LRM20 = 2 cap
Maximum damage per turn: 37
*has ECM
Star 3/Section 2
2 Kirghiz A
1 Scytha B
1 Scytha C
1 Hydaspes
2 GR = 3 cap
3 ERLL = 3 cap
6 ERPPC = 9 cap
13 LPL = 13 cap
8 MPL = 6 cap
2 LRM15 = 2 cap
Maximum damage per turn: 36
Total maximum damage per turn: 206
Now, I'll be the first to agree that these ships will not be doing their maximum damage due to the way the shooting rules function (though they will be hitting more or less all their shots, regardless of capital ECM, on account of their 1/2 pilots plus lots of pulse and tarcomp and LBX in the mix), but lets assume they are hitting for "average" distribution of 60%, we're talking 124 damage per turn. We can also I think safely assume a falloff of 10% per turn due to attrition.
Assuming those fighters loiter for 6 turns, stay parked in one arc (remember, fighters always win initiative versus capital ships), that Thera is going to be taking about 558 capital damage. A Thera's best-armored arc + I.S. is what, 480 points of damage capacity? So... that aero trinary actually poses a real threat if its own right - if it can keep locked on one location and the dice gods don't frown on them, they actually have a shot at sinking the Carrier (something, I should note, that would be very difficult to achieve in Flashpoint simple rez, and which would require some very difficult critical hits -- the Goons would have to get multiple instances of critical hit #2, which only has a 1/36 chance of being rolled - to deplete all of the Thera's FP). The more that I look at this (admittedly extreme case) I think the Goons actually have a better chance in MegaMek than in Simple Rez.
It look to me, by the numbers, that a trinary-sized strike against a Thera by legendary Clan heavy omnifighters (using the Wolf Dragoons' aero table from Flashpoint) actually poses a serious threat that that carrier. Of course, the Goons are also going to take losses (probably heavy losses), but that's a given with any kind of aerospace strike against a WarShips.
In Flashpoint, the FWL Thera was worth 346 FP (again, not counting its fighters because they weren't used in that fight. Personally, I would have used them initially to atrit the Goons down to a level where they were not a threat to the carrier any more). The Legendary Goons were worth 222 FP, so they were at a significant disadvantage to begin with.
Given that the -average- fight outcome in Flashpoint is 40% damage, the Goons would probably get mauled (~60% losses) while the Thera took 89 FP... more than enough to get its attention but not enough to scrap it outright (remember, no "direct damage" rule in Flashpoint to kill WarShips without depleting 100% of their FP). Moreover, the weakened Goons would be much more vulnerable to follow-up attacks by the Thera's fighter wings and might be in really sorry shape by the end of the campaign, while on the other hand the only real adverse impact on the FWLN would be strategic - having to pull back the Thera for repairs and possibly having its skill level drop.
So... I think actually the balance of power in that scenario was about right in Flashpoint. Having said that though I know I'm biased since "it was my baby" - I just wanted to put the math out there.
Well, that sounds like a test for MegaAero, no?
(not for me, though, as I suck at that,)
In Megamek, armor is under BV'd. So if the Dragoons took off even 1/2 of it's armor, I'd doubt if it lost more then 10% of it's BV.
Granted the fighters would win init, but still, managing the movement is still a tricky thing and they would most likely be facing fire before they were in range, and then 3 arcs when they were in range. No matter how much you try to focus on one arc in Naval, Like vehicles, you hit a lot of locations you don't want to speading your damage.
QuoteWe can also I think safely assume a falloff of 10% per turn due to attrition
Aff, but that 10% is cumulative. You have to conside the loss of firepower over 5 turns if that is our model.
With the average of 124 as you stated, - 12 for turn 1 is 112, - 12 for turn 2 is 100, -12 on turn 3 is 88, -12 on turn 4, is 76, by the time turn 5 comes, you've already lost 40% of your firepower and have done an average of 500 Damage. Now, assuming the long range stuff didn't whittle them down a little, mass critical combat losses haven't started to occur, the ship doesn't manage to give them fresh armor, ignore the dozen AMS that are shooting down missles, and they miraculously group all their fire into one section, yeah, they could do some internal damage. The biggest asset to this scenario is to say that they are auto-hitting, which for the numbers I'd grant because I mean come on, when you throw a ball at a wall, you hit with the ball, you throw 20 paper clips at a wall, you hit with 20 paperclips :P All missles should hit. :P But lets avoid physics, I like catgirls, especially Chloe King :) I miss The Gates, but at least she's got a new show :)
Oh, and most importantly, the "Max Damage" Number scenario you gave doesn't involve the Heat Factor...
224 Heat Sinks vs 294 Heat for just the first squadron, and Megamek won't let you fire weapons that you don't have the Heat Sinks for because of the new rules. If they've fixed that errata, then it would be a PSR (not a big deal for legendary warriors), but you'ld still have overheat penalties.
Anywho, I make my point, the only way to show it first hand is as marlin says, to play a game ;) I'm still waiting for my match avainst Jedibear for the "Debacle at Galedon" ;) I insist that even a sick Conqueror crew backed up by the Sovetskii Soyuz shouldn't have lost to the Texas / Cameron combo. ;)
Thank you for reigniting my passion for talking naval stuff ::)
Quote from: Marlin on June 21, 2011, 06:10:01 PM
Well, that sounds like a test for MegaAero, no?
(not for me, though, as I suck at that,)
Get one player who's good to referee, and two who suck to actually play it out. The reason is 'Soldier Proof testing'-we don't have sufficient GOOD MM/MA players to stage a test with great players on both sides, but we've got lots of people who stink at it...(like me, and by your own admission, you...) this gives a good baseline of comparison based on "Lowest Common Denominator of Play".
Of course, the true obstacle, is that nasty little 'lack of interest' thing. People will go on pages upon pages of debate on an academic level, but when it comes to testing theories on a practical level, most folks are un-interested.
(that, and the only 'practice' I get with MA rules, is on the ground map, because the damn Bot only wants to handle surface units, everything else magically hovers in one spot...)
For scrubs, I'd agree. Good test format, but for what Dave wants, you have to have someone playing the Dragoons, that is good because of the precision manuevering the fighters will have to do not to overextend themselves and stay in the same arc. It's totally possible, but hella hard. Doesn't matter about the Thera. Just make sure to tell them, shoot the Anti-Air stuff before capital, and they can spam all day long.
If you find the time to meet my schedule, Cannon, we can practice MA. But for a fight involving 30 Fighters I dont have the nerve. And it seems I cannot even get more than one in 'merica at my time. And we have.. problems. So, show up on Skype again and lets try a match. ;)
Quote from: Fatebringer on June 21, 2011, 06:42:17 PM
In Megamek, armor is under BV'd. So if the Dragoons took off even 1/2 of it's armor, I'd doubt if it lost more then 10% of it's BV.
I agree, if the Goons make movement errors their ability to hurt the Thera in game mechanically tracked ways decreases considerably.
Granted the fighters would win init, but still, managing the movement is still a tricky thing and they would most likely be facing fire before they were in range, and then 3 arcs when they were in range. No matter how much you try to focus on one arc in Naval, Like vehicles, you hit a lot of locations you don't want to speading your damage.
QuoteWe can also I think safely assume a falloff of 10% per turn due to attrition
Aff, but that 10% is cumulative. You have to conside the loss of firepower over 5 turns if that is our model.
With the average of 124 as you stated, - 12 for turn 1 is 112, - 12 for turn 2 is 100, -12 on turn 3 is 88, -12 on turn 4, is 76, by the time turn 5 comes, you've already lost 40% of your firepower and have done an average of 500 Damage.
Yes, that's the same figure I listed in my post ;)
Now, assuming the long range stuff didn't whittle them down a little, mass critical combat losses haven't started to occur, the ship doesn't manage to give them fresh armor, ignore the dozen AMS that are shooting down missles, and they miraculously group all their fire into one section, yeah, they could do some internal damage.
A similar statement could be made about all the things that could happen to enhance the fighters' chances, but honestly I think either approach is a little misleading. For example, the loose calculations listed in my post don't factor in the high likelyhood of a powerful unit like the Goons having the AB unit improvement and bringing a load of anti-ship missiles or even rocket launcher spam to the fight. Likewise, it doesn't touch on ERLL/LPL spam closing damage nor on the impact of direct blows and 'perfect shot' criticals.
The biggest asset to this scenario is to say that they are auto-hitting, which for the numbers I'd grant because I mean come on, when you throw a ball at a wall, you hit with the ball, you throw 20 paper clips at a wall, you hit with 20 paperclips :P All missles should hit. :P But lets avoid physics, I like catgirls, especially Chloe King :) I miss The Gates, but at least she's got a new show :)
Oh, and most importantly, the "Max Damage" Number scenario you gave doesn't involve the Heat Factor...
224 Heat Sinks vs 294 Heat for just the first squadron, and Megamek won't let you fire weapons that you don't have the Heat Sinks for because of the new rules. If they've fixed that errata, then it would be a PSR (not a big deal for legendary warriors), but you'ld still have overheat penalties.
If they haven't fixed this shortcoming I will be... disappointed. But that's a MegaMek bug, not a rules shortcoming.
Anywho, I make my point, the only way to show it first hand is as marlin says, to play a game ;) I'm still waiting for my match avainst Jedibear for the "Debacle at Galedon" ;) I insist that even a sick Conqueror crew backed up by the Sovetskii Soyuz shouldn't have lost to the Texas / Cameron combo. ;)
Thank you for reigniting my passion for talking naval stuff ::)
My pleasure ;D
I guess though the important thing to reiterate is that as much as I think you are greatly selling short the Goons with your opinion that "they are all doomed," there are some key points:
- In simple res, of which the accuracy or lack thereof we were initially discussing when we got onto this, the Goons were definitely not on equal footing with the FWL's elite Thera, much less with "the Thera and her escorts"
- The Goons would have needed to roll very well relative to the FWL to even win the battle, and would have needed a series of rolls with a probability of about 1/200,000 of occuring to actually sink the Thera
- Having said that, the Goons' FP assessment is not wildly out of line - a trinary of legendary heavy omnifighters is dangerous, and I think we can both agree would probably make short work of most smaller WarShips. The Thera, as you noted, has the advantage of very high armor and is effectively a battleship in defense terms. Most WarShips that would be the target of an ASF strike would not have that kind of protection.
Quote from: Fatebringer on June 21, 2011, 06:59:06 PM
For scrubs, I'd agree. Good test format, but for what Dave wants, you have to have someone playing the Dragoons, that is good because of the precision manuevering the fighters will have to do not to overextend themselves and stay in the same arc. It's totally possible, but hella hard. Doesn't matter about the Thera. Just make sure to tell them, shoot the Anti-Air stuff before capital, and they can spam all day long.
Hold on there for a sec ;). This isn't "what Dave wants," I was just running with the example you brought up. As I mentioned above, I don't think this is a particularly good example because both of the units involved as extreme examples and even though I think the FP assignments to both are reasonable its not reflective of what the vast majority of fighter vs. warship scenarios in the FlashPoint system would be.
By what "Dave want", I mean what your scenario would require. Presicion movement. Take that same formation, give it to a nub, then watch them spread out their fighter groups and attack from different angles... :P Those Dragoons would move from 10% to 30% combat losses per turn :P
QuoteA similar statement could be made about all the things that could happen to enhance the fighters' chances, but honestly I think either approach is a little misleading. For example, the loose calculations listed in my post don't factor in the high likelyhood of a powerful unit like the Goons having the AB unit improvement and bringing a load of anti-ship missiles or even rocket launcher spam to the fight. Likewise, it doesn't touch on ERLL/LPL spam closing damage nor on the impact of direct blows and 'perfect shot' criticals.
Granted, but give the Thera it's CA, and what do you have? 10 fighters that will go hunting out of the gate and either delay or increase the combat losses of the Dragoons. Granted those IS FP's sucked compared to the Clanners, but still, extra is extra.
One of my points was that, 40% losses to the Dragoons, vs Moderate Armor Damage to the Thera, even if the Dragoon plan worked to the tee. But I do conceed, one pass on a Lola, ... bye-bye lola dear. The Thera doesn't just have the armor, it has the Anti-Fighter abilities. It's designed to be a carrier and hold off enemy fighters, while it's fighters do their job. The fact that the rules would exclude the Thera's fighters is unusual for a carrier design. Most other ships aren't built that way, I'd give them odds against an Aegis, once they're in min rage of those big guns, the Aegis is hosed if it doesn't have friends.
In straight up FP rolls, the Dragoons have much better odds to sink the Thera, but in the game, what happened was, they engaged the group, the FWL engaged with a fighter group, round 2, the slightly wounded Dragoons went up against the Thera with 7% ASF support, the dragoons took 90% losses , and were forced to withdrawl. then was engaged by a different fighter group and when they finally broke off from that, were at 15% strength and headed to atmo to support their ground troops which were being OB'd. :P
the Thera didn't have it's fighters because Chaos forgot to issue the correct orders to the ASF wing, if I'm remembering that fight correctly. But I always wondered why it was a % of the ENEMY force, and not % of the total unit.
Quote from: Cannonshop on June 21, 2011, 06:55:48 PM
Quote from: Marlin on June 21, 2011, 06:10:01 PM
Well, that sounds like a test for MegaAero, no?
(not for me, though, as I suck at that,)
Get one player who's good to referee, and two who suck to actually play it out. The reason is 'Soldier Proof testing'-we don't have sufficient GOOD MM/MA players to stage a test with great players on both sides, but we've got lots of people who stink at it...(like me, and by your own admission, you...) this gives a good baseline of comparison based on "Lowest Common Denominator of Play".
Of course, the true obstacle, is that nasty little 'lack of interest' thing. People will go on pages upon pages of debate on an academic level, but when it comes to testing theories on a practical level, most folks are un-interested.
(that, and the only 'practice' I get with MA rules, is on the ground map, because the damn Bot only wants to handle surface units, everything else magically hovers in one spot...)
Pulls out his snazzy black and white striped shirt. I can watch a MM game and answer questions on IM even if it is during work. As long as the game is scheduled beforehand it can be anytime day or night and I can answer everyones MA questions.
Quote from: Daemonknight on June 22, 2011, 05:15:38 PM
the Thera didn't have it's fighters because Chaos forgot to issue the correct orders to the ASF wing, if I'm remembering that fight correctly. But I always wondered why it was a % of the ENEMY force, and not % of the total unit.
#1) Used the Thera because losing whole Wings of Fighters is killing a top level unit. The Legendary Dragoons had the ability to take out my top Level Aerospace Wings which is auto -1 Public support and could have gotten real expensive in Public support missions and counteracted the narrative I was running inchar about a charismatic dictatorial career politician with delusions of Divine Right reuniting the FWL or burning it down whichever.
#2) I did the cost benefit analysis and decided losing the Santorini for a single turn while I spent everything I had on repairing it was acceptable as it was not going to die (and I had hope's of MA the game in other words killing that Trinary of Fighters in exactly the method Fate had described. Also no one was fighting me with anything warship wise and the Santorini's main job had been show up to a planet each turn and force a surrender by dint of "OH SHIT IT's an Elite Thera SON that boy Hunter don't be playing! "
#3) Once I had the Legendary Fighters to the point where they could not wipe out any of my fighter groups I was hoping to use them as a pinata for the various regular FWL wings one after another but they fled to the planet to get orbital bombarded with the rest of the Goons. Plus I thought it was a good narrative to have the legends smacked down in a workman like fashion by a series of fighter wings which broke off just as the Goon's were about to put them into a killing position with their sheer individual skill.
Never did get around to writing a bit about how those regular pilots felt about making the Goons run under the guns of the orbital bombardment rather then face them in the skies. K cera cera
Star Adders "Proxy" request:
As is becoming evidant, the two Adder players have neither the time, nore to be perficly honest the inclination, to go through the large number of combat threads involving us for resolutions. We there fore request the help of any intrested parties to help us in this matter by rolling out nessissary combats and caluclating damage and resolutions.
In the intrest of speed, some assumptions about Adder actions can be made:
Any Adder force reduced to 2/3rds of its opponents strength (after damage to both sides is calculated; that is to say the strength at the start of the next round) will accept any Hegira offered by its opponent. Any Adder force reduced to 1/3rd strength or less will actively request Hegira. Of course, no Adder force will retreat, and will fight on if Hegira is not offered.
Any Adder force that has any amount of advantage over its opponent in strength will offer Hegira to its opponent. Hegira will also be offered in the case of any ties. In any such cases, Hegira offered by opponents will not be accepted.
In any case where Adder strength is more than 67% of its opponents, resolution will be refered to Adder players to determine the responce based on IC factors (the unit, the opponent, the world).
If no players are willing and able to do this, we will do our best to get around to it, but be cautioned that our best may not prove very good. If a few days pass and there is no responce, Demonknight may resolve these himself, if he has the time and energy.
As for Bloodname trials, we have determined the essance of our responce. Don't worry, as we'll be refusing many of the trials, for any number of reasons (lack of bloodnamed warriors in some cases, other reasons in other cases) but we will also be accepting some. We just need to determine what blood names are likely to be present, based on unit histories any and RP that may have been done pre-jump, and what sort of bids are appropreate for each (a notable N'Buta liniage might be defended by the whole cluster present, while a dishonored Burrock liniage might see just the warrior in qustion, unaugmented, in a trial we'd be more than happy to lose, as two examples).
Of course, Grae is senior, so he may if he wishes void some or all of this, at his discression.
Im always up for a fight who's game?
In the case of the bloodname trials, let's just say the Falcons will bid at max a star for a 'dead clan' bloodname, except Steiner(we will accept anything upto Cluster size). Non exclusive, high prestige; exclusive low prestige would be a star to trinary. Exclusive high prestige(like the afore mentioned N buta) would be trinary and up( sub in IS units for th Lyran issued trials).
The Lyrans especially would peruse the Steiner line as vigorously as possible. Aside from that and any high prestige lines, we won't make an issue of denied trials, and grant safcon to all Adders forces leaving systems we won.
Cannon, I know you're only starting now, so I don't know how far you'll get, but I'm off to bed now, so I'll just say Thanks in advance, even if you don't get more than the two I've seen done. :-*
Okay, I did about a page's worth. The rest are either already resolved, or need actual force-breakdowns for the two sides. Not a lot of surprises over-all, although the Adders did have a very good showing at Greenlaw (good being relative, for the numbers to work out, they had to have killed some of their own guys who were encircled and captured. 2*65%=130%, subtract 20% from damage leaves 110%, which just covers the damage to the Lyran forces PLUS the 10% the Lyrans encircled. Messy...
Anyway, it's up to you guys to go through and mark the 'completed' on the subject headers, count up the win/loss ratio, and all that good citizen stuff.
Quotethey had to have killed some of their own guys who were encircled and captured
How does this happen? That FP doesn't go to the enemy's battle line, it goes to the isorla pool.
QuoteI agree to this. RP should come first in trials, but as we've seen over and over, some people have been doing trials, "By the rules" and the rules called trials invasions, and as long as you followed the invasion rules, the GM's didn't care that what was going on was unclanlike. There were no rules set up for Clanners to do "Call Down" bids and those people that opted to reinforce their trials from huge call down pools abused the system because all it proved was that if you send enough soldiers at something, eventually you will win.
I was helping put up the calculations for the adder threads, but then had to stop as we have our first example of horribly dezgra bidding followed my more call down bids <<Shakes head>> I resolved anything I could that didn't involve adding forces that weren't bid in the trial.
http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=2807.0 (http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=2807.0)
In the other trials were people did "Call Down" Bids, they declared an FP amount of a larger force. Lets say, they declared they had a 13.75 FP cluster. Then bid 3 of that cluster.
Please people, DON'T declare trials unless you have honor.
Technically its only honorable to call down your last bid.
Calling down multiple times is Dezgra but they are Lyran units and probably don't know any better I must admit I haven't read the thread.
Quote from: chaosxtreme on June 23, 2011, 03:05:05 PM
Technically its only honorable to call down your last bid.
Allowed, not honorable, and there were no previous declared bids.
At least in the previous "call down" example an initial force was declared before bidding down. Then as per the rules on invasions, they were not breaking the rules of the game by doing multiple call downs because they had declared a larger invasion.
The following was stated to a 1 FP militia force after ignoring a Forced Withdrawl event....
Quotethe militia and the force they're facing are down to .25 FP, and the Lyrans are offering Hegira on the basis that while they're currently even, the milita can't possible hope to hold out against the force thats waiting for them.
I mean what kind of initial bid could a 1 FP trial have had if the "Bid Down" against militia was 1 FP? This entier statement shows that the attackers consider their entire force part of their bid and never actually bid down, but was determined to engage them a piece at a time to play at being honorable.
Well, there's 'permissable' under the strict rules, and 'honorable' under the norms of the day.
Traditionaly, any amount up to the opening bid, the very first bid made by any particapant in the bidding, may be called down, but at a 'significant loss of honor.' The penultimate bid may be called down, with a relitively minor (but non zero) loss of honor. So, the Lyrans are within their 'rights.' Under the trial system. In many fights, the only recorse the Adders have is name calling (and reciprocial behaviors in the future).
But, it is worth noting that in all the fights that are not millita, only a fraction of the defenders were used, and while its never actualy been seen, one imagines the defender retains a similar right as well.
So, in battles where the Adders are down, but not by more than one third of their opponents strength (for example, I saw battles were the next round would stand at 2-1.5, which is 75% strength, or 2.75-2, which is 72%) per the guidelines I set (before I knew about the call down bids, too) Adders would at least give consideration to fighting on. So, in accordance with the guidlines I left, such trails should be considered every bit as open as the ones with the Lyran call down bits, and not LA victories.
Just be sure that the name calling will be intense. And that you reap what you sow.
Oh, and again thanks for the help.
QuoteCalling down multiple times is Dezgra but they are Lyran units and probably don't know any better I must admit I haven't read the thread.
If these Lyrans know enought about bidding to do "Call Downs" they're not inexperienced. :P I mean, after 40 years of trials, being an ignorant dirty spheroid loses the "we didn't know" clause, especially if you have Clanners in your corner to explain how things work for you. ;)
Just ensure that threads that are completed have been properly marked. IF there are any disputes please refer them to me send a link to the GM account while CCing me Directly. FWL rebellion threads will be dealt with as well since at least at this point they are RP only.
Go Rebels! XD
Go Federalies! :P
For Aiur! Wait this isn't Starcraft! Carry on.
He he he, I haven't had power in 2 days,:P When I finally get back on though.
FOR THE HORDE!!! XD
I usually play Tauren, but I'm liking my Worgen sneaky rogue. The extra speed buff they get makes a huge difference, especially once you get the ability to vanish :)
Quote from: Fatebringer on June 23, 2011, 03:12:21 PM
The following was stated to a 1 FP militia force after ignoring a Forced Withdrawl event....
Quotethe militia and the force they're facing are down to .25 FP, and the Lyrans are offering Hegira on the basis that while they're currently even, the milita can't possible hope to hold out against the force thats waiting for them.
I mean what kind of initial bid could a 1 FP trial have had if the "Bid Down" against militia was 1 FP? This entier statement shows that the attackers consider their entire force part of their bid and never actually bid down, but was determined to engage them a piece at a time to play at being honorable.
In this particular case of the Trial Force being wiped out, there is no one to call further things down and sending more troops in would effectively void the Circle of Equals, making this an Invasion. Now, I dont know how those pan out after 1 or 2 bouts of fighting, but if push comes to shove, they only have one more round in invasion mode and in case of losing, lose the Invasion.
Could be, could not be. Not sure there. In any case, its no Trial anymore.
This one wasn't the one where the Trialing force was whiped out. This is the one where .25 FP of Lyrans were forced to withdawl, so he pulled down another .5 FP of forces to replace them.
This is the only mention of forced withdawl in the rules because it's a carryover from Flashpoint only because it's still on the chart. To bring down more forces however would undermine the purpose of the event. A 12 is rolled, as long as you have a force left, you win.
It's like in DnD, even if you don't have the bonus's to qualify for the difficiculty rating there's always a chance for success and if you roll a 20, you succeed.
Ok, if no force was wiped out but a withdrawl was done, then it comes also down to breaking the Circle as the force withdrawing already lost the Trial itself. Calling down more just switches to Invasion.
Quote from: Marlin on June 23, 2011, 06:35:36 PM
Ok, if no force was wiped out but a withdrawl was done, then it comes also down to breaking the Circle as the force withdrawing already lost the Trial itself. Calling down more just switches to Invasion.
Quoted for truth, at least in my personal and non-binding rules-wise opinion.
While conceivably a Trial in the IC sense can consist of multiple operational Trial orders, especially when large forces are involved, committing additional forces would occur during the orders declaration step of the next phase... so presumedly if one force had withdrawn the trial would be already concluded under the normal procedures unless the trial area was so huge as to include the enemy encampment... but in that case then the reinforcements would be in violation of the circle of equals so its still problematic.
Quote from: chaosxtreme on June 23, 2011, 03:05:05 PM
Technically its only honorable to call down your last bid.
ah well thats my fault for not knowing that.
And the initial bid was actually the whole unit in all of those cases. We then reduced our forces to whatever the Adders had there. It just so happens the Lyrans consider those planets important. *shrug* call me what you will
Hey I am not hating DK.
My usual last bid IS the entire unit. And I have in previous case's called the whole thing down.
There was a bit of a row until all the Clan law afficionado's went through it and saw that YES I had obeyed by Clan Law the entire time.
You can call down the whole unit you just can not keep calling down. Im sure your enemies will use it against you and those of us who are indifferent will use it for our own gain. ;-)
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on June 23, 2011, 03:37:26 PM
Well, there's 'permissable' under the strict rules, and 'honorable' under the norms of the day.
Traditionaly, any amount up to the opening bid, the very first bid made by any particapant in the bidding, may be called down, but at a 'significant loss of honor.' The penultimate bid may be called down, with a relitively minor (but non zero) loss of honor. So, the Lyrans are within their 'rights.' Under the trial system. In many fights, the only recorse the Adders have is name calling (and reciprocial behaviors in the future).
But, it is worth noting that in all the fights that are not millita, only a fraction of the defenders were used, and while its never actualy been seen, one imagines the defender retains a similar right as well.
So, in battles where the Adders are down, but not by more than one third of their opponents strength (for example, I saw battles were the next round would stand at 2-1.5, which is 75% strength, or 2.75-2, which is 72%) per the guidelines I set (before I knew about the call down bids, too) Adders would at least give consideration to fighting on. So, in accordance with the guidlines I left, such trails should be considered every bit as open as the ones with the Lyran call down bits, and not LA victories.
Just be sure that the name calling will be intense. And that you reap what you sow.
I'm perfectly happy to open the combats up again if you decide you like the odds and want to roll another round, or drop more troops out. As for the 'Calling down multiple times, I have a solution, but it requires your agreement(because it would invalidate a few of the rolls). Instead of brinning down forces to equal, we're bring down a big chunk of the forces there(maybe not the whole unit, but some of it anyways).
Quote from: chaosxtreme on June 23, 2011, 09:03:24 PM
Hey I am not hating DK.
My usual last bid IS the entire unit. And I have in previous case's called the whole thing down.
There was a bit of a row until all the Clan law afficionado's went through it and saw that YES I had obeyed by Clan Law the entire time.
You can call down the whole unit you just can not keep calling down. Im sure your enemies will use it against you and those of us who are indifferent will use it for our own gain. ;-)
Is this the way Clanners bid? Generally not and as you can see, the fact that they do is very annoying to me, so I'm vocal about it. When I first joined the FGC, I had to take a test to be a Clanner. I don't know if the GMs ever rejected someone from the clans, but if this is how someone is bidding a clan force, then they should be rejected.
I cheer every time I see someone actually underbid. Honor for them, none for joo!
I tend to look at this whole issue as a phenomena of the game. In the truest sense, the actual bidding would be internal to the units. However, I don't see how bidding a regiment or RCT for a whole planet, and then matching the lower bid, is dishonorable.
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on June 22, 2011, 09:57:49 PM
If no players are willing and able to do this, we will do our best to get around to it, but be cautioned that our best may not prove very good. If a few days pass and there is no responce, Demonknight may resolve these himself, if he has the time and energy.
as for this, I'd be happy to roll out the rest of the combats myself to save DR the work, and it'd obviously be done according to your stated wishes. However, I don't know if there is actually line units at each world, or what size for you'd have setup to defend the planet- the current range is 3-5fp, so i'd be forced to go with 4. However, thats not something I'm comfortable doing unless you specificlly say that its okay. Plus as I said- not sure if any of those worlds are undefended, making it a 1fp militia trial.
if you can either post here that 4fp is good, or 3, or whatever, I can finish up all the planetary top trials, and we can move foreward with the Bloodline trials whenever you guys get that setup(however, we only have 4 days, so if you're going to get it done, we need to move on it, otherwise I have to assume you are denying all of them).
not to sound bitchy fate, even though i'm sure thats how this will come off, but I'd prefer to close my own combat threads. And this isn't because of Greenlaw- thats a rules dispute, and I still stand by you and CS being wrong, but we will let DR have a look at it.
I had this happen before, and Dave B backed me up(at the time, though perhaps he doesn't remember). The crits that modify the damage dealt by x% are modifying damage, based on the rolls. All those modifers MUST go through first, before doubling, otherwise if he had, for instance, had a +10% damage, it wouldn't be doubled. You can't apply it two ways, and the defender most DEFINETLY does not get to decide the order in which critical events are applied.
LOL, oh, I know I've come across as bitchy in these rants, because it's annoying me.
QuoteHowever, I don't see how bidding a regiment or RCT for a whole planet, and then matching the lower bid, is dishonorable.
My entire point is summed up as this. "Matching" a bid is not what clan trials are about. People are
matching bids because they don't have the balls to follow the system and
Underbid like they should be.
Overbidding and Call Downs are not the clan norm, but because they've seen it done once in a book, people are doing it all the frickin time. I'ts only an FGC "Phenomena" because people don't want to lose and then say, it's because I underbid. But guess what, that's what's supposed to happen. You go for it, it means something, you play it safe, your a coward and no one respects you. That's Clan society. People who play it safe should expect the derision of their peers.
Oh I am fine with underbidding. If someone is prepared to take the game to MegaMek or Mega Aero. I do not underbid when it comes to Simple Resolution because that is just mathematically dumb.
Of course if I was underbidding I would be taking fewer mechs with better pilots most likely but that's just how I roll.
Underbidding and cut downs have their place but its just not a good idea in simple res as the numbers are against you and continue to go against you the more rounds that go on.
The odds in Megamek are as statistically stacked against you as in simple resolution. The point is to be consistant and follow the intent of your people. Just because you can't twink out a zombie assault force like you do, doesn't mean you this part of clan society should be ignored.
Quote from: Fatebringer on June 24, 2011, 01:41:51 PM
The odds in Megamek are as statistically stacked against you as in simple resolution.
I disagree here. I think many of us in our heart of hearts, weather we're right or wrong, truely belive that we're better MMers than everyone else. Conversely, no one belives there's a better dice roller than anyone else (well, someone might, but they'd be harder pressed to support that notion).
As for 'bidding,' there was a rule in the early game that Clans with two players actualy had to really, truely bid for things. Every now and then, when there are several Clans in the bidding, things get really spirited and competitive. Not once in thouse situations has the resualting bid been over the defender. Often, its below 80% of the defender. This is what real, true, competitive bidding does. There is no qustion that when it really comes down to it, as players we have the same behavior as Clanners, in that we're willing to take big risks for our shot at glory.
Now, its not really reasonable or practical to simulate that for any but the most critial trials (which are inveriably to be MMed out). And in the case of Lyrans, I had simply imagined that there really was no bid and they're just tweeking the rules for their own gain, which is a reasonable IC thing for them to do I feel. But, for any faction, I think its important to pause for a second and think about what is reasonable for them to have done. Did they bit against one another, but the target was important and no one wanted to go below the cut down? Did the commander simply assign the bid? Is the whole unit involved anyway, so bidding is moot? Or is the unit just being and buch of IC sleeze balls (what ever the OOC intention may be) and abusing Clan honor for its own gain?
What IM said.
Even against those who I consider really good MM'ers, I feel that if I have a skill boost which most front line units will have over Garrison and secondline forces, and with Zellbrigen being enforced that I will be able to claim glory.
Even without those things if I am on the defense I believe I can pull a win through the defenders option to pick the battlefield and tailoring my force to compliment it best.
But the dice roller has no skill to it. There is no way I can maneuver that on this turn to give me an advantage and yeah I could still get a really bad series of dice rolls and lose but even then I can pull out before it gets to bad.
It gets even worse with warships as their expensive have negative bonus's in simple res that effect their survivability and are "weak" to easily/cheaply produced units (aerospace can be produced at MF's and SY's).
Mind you I understand the reasons Warships were getting to prevalent and something had to be done to give those who can not afford the beasties a way to compete. But in a MA game I do not care how big the board is if a fight is lost against fighters I am probably going to be able to get a real warship off the map before it succumbs to the plink of doom.
Sincerely,
Robert Johnson
QuoteI disagree here. I think many of us in our heart of hearts, weather we're right or wrong, truely belive that we're better MMers than everyone else. Conversely, no one belives there's a better dice roller than anyone else (well, someone might, but they'd be harder pressed to support that notion).
I may have phrased it differentl, but that's what I was saying. :P
QuoteThe odds in Megamek are as statistically stacked against you as in simple resolution.
The use of "stacked against you" was just my way of pointing out that we will always beat Chaos. ;) he he he, so it was just me messing with him. The statement essentially means, there is no difference between the two.
As said before, matching an FP bid, might not actually be a matching bid. It might be less machines, with better pilots, or smaller machines with better pilots. I don't remember how many units involved in my side arn't Regular, but its over 1/3, so theres a case for that opinion. Either way, I don't see matching as an 'honorable' course of action, but that doesn't automaticlly make it 'dishonorable' either. there is a grey area of 'well, thats not really scummy, but its not really kosher either'. And thats where the Lyrans are sitting pretty right now(or trying to anyways).
To consistantly fail to be bold is scummy in Clanner eyes and yes, scum builds up and is then harder to get off. Of if the upper crusty LA preferes, tarnish. ;)
Hey, i think 20 something attacks at once should count for something. Those poor Lyrans could barely put down some fool peon rebellion 2 decades ago. Now they're making the Adders slither all over themselves in fear. I call that progress.
On the subject of 'slithering over themselves in fear'- poor chaos. Even when he wins, he doesn't win. I think the Adders have lost less FP(and no warships) in 30-odd trials. ;)
The way I see it, even with the Salvage, the Vipers are down 100 RP, and the Cats are only down 50. Will see if he keeps trying to pull that shtick ;)
No, with the Salvage, he should be back in the green. Not counting the RP loss for a 10 FP LiFu Warship. I think he came out good enough despite some bad rolls and stuff.
Well, he also won the prize, which was sufficantly valuable to him to send three high end warships to take, so I'd say the Vipers are 'ahead' in the end for their win, even if it may have been more costly than they might have liked to see in a more sedate trial.
Quote from: Marlin on June 24, 2011, 08:00:29 PM
No, with the Salvage, he should be back in the green. Not counting the RP loss for a 10 FP LiFu Warship. I think he came out good enough despite some bad rolls and stuff.
yes, but that 10 FP warship is worth 82RP because of the cost modifier and training :P
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on June 24, 2011, 08:15:59 PM
Well, he also won the prize, which was sufficantly valuable to him to send three high end warships to take, so I'd say the Vipers are 'ahead' in the end for their win, even if it may have been more costly than they might have liked to see in a more sedate trial.
True, if you add in the prize, they're ahead, but just as far as the battle goes, they're under, but then, what is the honor they lost worth...?
On the one hand, honor won't put food on the table. On the other, dishonor can encourage other people to take food off your table. Tricky qustion. As is so often pointed out, its all about how we each RP our responce to it.
If you want to just assume a 1FP bid, then we can fill in weather it was a line unit bidding low, or a millita unit bidding everything, after the fact. I should be able to reserch our orders for that data early next week (maybe).
Quote from: Daemonknight on June 24, 2011, 04:56:27 AM
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on June 22, 2011, 09:57:49 PM
If no players are willing and able to do this, we will do our best to get around to it, but be cautioned that our best may not prove very good. If a few days pass and there is no responce, Demonknight may resolve these himself, if he has the time and energy.
as for this, I'd be happy to roll out the rest of the combats myself to save DR the work, and it'd obviously be done according to your stated wishes. However, I don't know if there is actually line units at each world, or what size for you'd have setup to defend the planet- the current range is 3-5fp, so i'd be forced to go with 4. However, thats not something I'm comfortable doing unless you specificlly say that its okay. Plus as I said- not sure if any of those worlds are undefended, making it a 1fp militia trial.
if you can either post here that 4fp is good, or 3, or whatever, I can finish up all the planetary top trials, and we can move foreward with the Bloodline trials whenever you guys get that setup(however, we only have 4 days, so if you're going to get it done, we need to move on it, otherwise I have to assume you are denying all of them).
Problem is if it is a line unit once you get to MM.
It is either a line unit with cruddy second rate equipment fighting novice's in Fafnir's. Or nope.....thats pretty much it.
Never seen one "militia" fight that went to MM where they were sporting equipment off the A and B RAT's. :-) Mind you its fun but when your Militia is running around in Fafnir's and Devastator's it doesn't matter that theri IS Regular when the Elite Clanner is running around in a Urbie IIc.
Am I wrong?
:-)
P.S. To me skill modifiers should not even count towards the "Fairness" of a contest. Can anyone imagine a Second Line Garrison Cluster saying to a enemy Clan's Second Line Garrison Cluster "WHAT you filthy surat your bringing down three of your five trinaries to face my 5 of Second Line Battlemechs! That is dezgra!"
No because no clanner even if he is a commander of a Solhama unit is going to call another Clan's force superior warrior for warrior. It does not matter if its the other Clans Keshik being substituted in, or if his own mechs and armor are substandard he is just not going to do it.
Miracles do happen....
Kelenfold Militia Wolverine 6K vs SLDF Stalking Spider (http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=2458.0)
Winner: Kelenfold Militia! ;)
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on June 24, 2011, 08:35:43 PM
On the one hand, honor won't put food on the table.
Which is pretty much the definition of being dezgra and the reason why we hate mercs... or as Chaos says, a dirty stinking spheroid. But the IS factions that try to play ignorant ran out of excuses about 30 years ago after 10 years of dealing with and abusing bids. :P
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on June 24, 2011, 08:35:43 PM
On the other, dishonor can encourage other people to take food off your table.
Which is the standard Clan response. But before another Clan comes for your food, they mock you mercilessly as being a pregnant surat who needs the food so badly that you have to fight without honor to feed your freebirth surat litters. Which is the phase we're at right now ;)
Quote... and we can move foreward with the Bloodline trials whenever you guys get that setup
**Cough Cough** Harvest Trails!!! *** Cough Cough**QuoteAm I wrong?
Not that I can see. :P But I've lost track of where some of these examples have gone. I know there was some description of how the same amount of FP can represent vastly different forces, but no Militas get anything but a single lvl 1 light or medium mech, plus some vehicles infantry :P So, no comparing them to a Fafnir on Elite Urbie match :) That Wolverine 6k was one of the best mechs I could pick. I vary my stuff from crappy to good, light to medium, as I feel it should be. No picking a Cronus every time :P Gimme a Whitworth, a Hunchback, a Locust, a ... whatever ;)
Alright here's the deal. If it isn't done by 11:59 PM PST Tomorrow (tonight) it becomes my issue. If there are any outstanding disputes from the combat threads that are complete I'll deal with it. You will have until 1159PM PST on the 27th to issue any special orders that I need to apply.
can everyone see the T2 boards, or did I miss a permission somewhere?
I only see T1.
T2 threads visible and accessible to me.
Let me know if its visible now Fate
Yuppers
Holy Diceroll, Batman. That were some ugly things there. You really rolled some high numbers, Dave. And I guess the Alphard fight was heavy. How they would capture so many Cats however, will need some thoughts. I am open for proposals. Or, if someone wants to write that down at all, I would want to hear that as well.
Pretty sure 'encircle and capture' sums it up about as well as can be expected. Your forces got encircled...and captured...
Well being that the Marians are on the ropes we'll just have to see what the next turn brings the rolls were high and the fights were very,very bloody. I would not want to be doing any recon of those hexes at this point....
Quote from: Daemonknight on July 03, 2011, 09:05:09 PM
Pretty sure 'encircle and capture' sums it up about as well as can be expected. Your forces got encircled...and captured...
Well, no. Its not as easy if you look at the force encircled and the force the Marians had available. The captured stuff itself is larger than the defense. So, I cannot see it that easily. As I lack the time for proper RP, a real shame, I would really like some thoughts on this. (A Batt is managing them away from battle and then bluff them to think they are about to get nuked or something like that, and the GalCom there has no Comms anymore and powers down to save his dudes.) But not an encirclement by itself. That would be rather stretching it.
Anyway, the salvage is still TBD? Are the threads done then?
Quote from: Marlin on July 04, 2011, 05:40:08 PM
Quote from: Daemonknight on July 03, 2011, 09:05:09 PM
Pretty sure 'encircle and capture' sums it up about as well as can be expected. Your forces got encircled...and captured...
Well, no. Its not as easy if you look at the force encircled and the force the Marians had available. The captured stuff itself is larger than the defense. So, I cannot see it that easily. As I lack the time for proper RP, a real shame, I would really like some thoughts on this. (A Batt is managing them away from battle and then bluff them to think they are about to get nuked or something like that, and the GalCom there has no Comms anymore and powers down to save his dudes.) But not an encirclement by itself. That would be rather stretching it.
Anyway, the salvage is still TBD? Are the threads done then?
No, it just means that little scrub force out-fought and out-generalled the larger force, but didn't have the sheer numbers to survive when the enemy called in backup.
You can certainly try to write it down, Cannon, have a go and have fun. :) I just dont see it that way. But if you do the RP, at least it will be glorious. And the Caesar DID fight well enough. (or the Cats fought rather badly)
Quote from: Marlin on July 04, 2011, 05:55:08 PM
You can certainly try to write it down, Cannon, have a go and have fun. :) I just dont see it that way. But if you do the RP, at least it will be glorious. And the Caesar DID fight well enough. (or the Cats fought rather badly)
Seems to me to be a little of column "a" and a little of column "b", Marlin. The Cats obviously NEEDED a minimum overmatch in numbers-they didn't have the chops to fight it out evenly, and that goes for both major attacks they launched. The lesson from the Marian conflict is that the Spirit cats are BIG...
They're just not very GOOD.
which should be an embarassment for the Spirit Cats-they had to use raw numbers AND technological superiority, and the foe they used these on not only beat them man-for-man, but inflicted heavy damage on their vaunted fleet, and the only saving grace they had?
Manpower, they won by outnumbering, not by superior warrior skill. A couple more Alphards or Lotharios and the Spirit Cats should (if the Clans are being 'Clan like') appear to be QUITE weak to the other Clans in the Grand Council. After all, they had to out-
number a pathetic periphery state, and still took heavy losses.
From a Clan Traditionalist or Crusader point of view, that's an awful lot of waste for not much gain, and coming on the heels of losing New Hope Station...
Thankfully, I don't have to worry-the Clans that might see this as an advantage to exploit aren't on my borders so I don't have to worry about spillover on to the UIW from someone else taking advantage of this perceived weakness on your part, nobody's going to be demanding safcon to pass through my territory into yours.
From an IS perspective, on the other hand, witnessing someone you share a border with, launch a war of extermination against someone else with no pretext, nor cause, an un-provoked war, is frankly disturbing as all get-out. Means we don't have a safe border there, means all that silence is 'scary silence' on the diplomatic front. Means making sure my alliances are close enough to call on if you decide to head north.
I thought about your fears, which are obvious. Without any input or stuff however, I lack the time and will to change it right now, though. Fact is, you did nothing to approach the Cats and they saw no need (and I lack the time and stuff to do it :P ) so it is like it is.
One thing you could think about though: being hurled at with dozens of nukes does not make a Warrior happier or better, I say. Anyway, no time to RP, take it up if you want, I am serious. Or tell me to shove off. ;) Lest I will pester you more with that.
Quote from: Marlin on July 04, 2011, 06:31:52 PM
I thought about your fears, which are obvious. Without any input or stuff however, I lack the time and will to change it right now, though. Fact is, you did nothing to approach the Cats and they saw no need (and I lack the time and stuff to do it :P ) so it is like it is.
One thing you could think about though: being hurled at with dozens of nukes does not make a Warrior happier or better, I say. Anyway, no time to RP, take it up if you want, I am serious. Or tell me to shove off. ;) Lest I will pester you more with that.
The nukes were used exactly as Nukes
should be used, the sheer size of the force coming in is enough that the user has no other options-you backed them into a corner from which their ONLY rational alternative was using the weapons-I was frankly surprised that they didn't use them in the ground battle, but instead restricted them to the naval engagement. That many enemies, they didn't have any option BUT the nuclear option. as the attackers, the Cats didn't even give them the lip-service excuse of a Trial-this was a straight curbstomp-by-quantity, it's doubtful anyone BUT the Cats would have the slightest pang over the warship losses they suffered-after all, it isn't like you were going against a first-rate navy armed with comparable vessels, you were up against back-benchers, and sent your front-liners in force, under ROE that, given the Clan pattern, would read to either a Clan observer, or an Inner Sphere observer used to dealing with the Clans, is unrestricted.
Which in turn means the Spirit Cats set the rules of further conflict on "no Holds barred".
at this point, there's nothing the Marians or their allies can do short of nuking/bombarding surface targets, that isn't hoyle against the Spirit Cats-they've already tossed Clan Honour rules out the window, and it can be argued Inner Sphere rules as well.
That's the exterior perception, anyway.
Trying to find out two things, why the second crit was rerolled. Typically either an effect is stacked or irellavant and why is the hex contested? The Marians had 51 FP left, and the Cats did 52 damage... that should whipe out defending force...
Quote from: Fatebringer on July 05, 2011, 01:38:14 PM
Trying to find out two things, why the second crit was rerolled. Typically either an effect is stacked or irellavant and why is the hex contested? The Marians had 51 FP left, and the Cats did 52 damage... that should whipe out defending force...
Indeed. Good pickup Fate.
the hex is contested because there is another control world the Cats failed to attack this turn. Might not have any defenders, but they still didn't hit it. Same with the Lothario hex
Aaaah. Hex is contested, not world is contested. Gotcha :)
Cannon, of course that can be one POV. However, eliminating a pirate state that collaborated or still does with the WOB is good for the Clans. The Terrans are still out there. The other option could have been to try to negotiate. That was not used by the Marians and well, after they tossed out nukes like candy it isnt for either party.
BTW, I just followed the plan laid out by the last Cat player, and the whole logistics of the Cats were quite impressive if you ask me. You don't but lets find some points in their favor here. :D
Quote from: Marlin on July 05, 2011, 06:03:07 PM
Cannon, of course that can be one POV. However, eliminating a pirate state that collaborated or still does with the WOB is good for the Clans. The Terrans are still out there. The other option could have been to try to negotiate. That was not used by the Marians and well, after they tossed out nukes like candy it isnt for either party.
BTW, I just followed the plan laid out by the last Cat player, and the whole logistics of the Cats were quite impressive if you ask me. You don't but lets find some points in their favor here. :D
But the Marians have a twenty-year (actually longer) history of NOT ACTING LIKE PIRATES.
You attacked a neighbour you've been at peace with for the last twenty years, with a massive "Destroy them" force.
but no pretext, no justification IC, no attempt at communication prior.
The faction that ends up looking the pirate, are the Spirit Cats in this scenario, not the Marians.
Points in the Cats' favour?
They're bigger than the Marians, with more hardware, that's more advanced...
The 20 year gap at restart is plenty of time to change Hugin's policies, it's not like we're still playing in 3070 here, the diplomatic and military terrain are considerably changed from when Hugin planned this.
The jump did only delay the invasion. If not for the jump, they would have been there already.
I say its better they actually do something instead of rot away senselessly. :)
And the marians are still Pirates. The Interwebs has spoken. :D Seriously, its useless to argue about that here.
Actually its not, and as to your other point, to Wobbies arn't in Marian space either, C* is running all IS comms, or atleast thats what one would expect with the whole 'kicking them out of the IS' bit that went down. So both of your (outdated) pretexts are basiclly non-starters. And you acted like a total bandit, launching an invasion with overwhelming force to simply obliterate them, without even a token batchall.
The interwebs have spoken again- the Cats calling someone else pirates/bandits/whatever, is the pot calling the kettle black at this point. Tell you one thing, you've lost all credability as 'honorable opponenets' you might've had from the FedSuns, Lyrans and Falcons.
Quote from: Marlin on July 05, 2011, 07:18:43 PM
The jump did only delay the invasion. If not for the jump, they would have been there already.
I say its better they actually do something instead of rot away senselessly. :)
And the marians are still Pirates. The Interwebs has spoken. :D Seriously, its useless to argue about that here.
if this were 3070 or 3071, that would matter, but it's 30
91, the Word of Blake is effectively a campfire story people tell their kids to get them to go to church instead of hanging out with that weird preacher guy on the corner, and the border with the Marians
was quiet until now.
Militarily, you err'ed as well-you dumped enough force to take the Marians, and wasted it taking two worlds without taking hte hexes (and hex elements) you were after. In 3071, those hexes had at most 1 control world, they've developed, now there are two, leaving even your success stalled due to poor deployment choices. What should've been a knockout, is...degraded.
You're going to have to stay and finish the job at this point.
Yes, by all means, stay. The Spirit Cats showed up on my doorstep with little more greeting than, "Surrender or die!" Therefore, you have no reason to complain that you got a warmer reception than you were expecting. You slaughtered the defending aerospace forces. Now I'm sure the Legion will be happy to send even more cowardly Spirit Cat warriors to hell in a blaze of thermonuclear fire. The Spirit Cats went after my best troops on Alphard with overwhelming force, and it seems they underestimated them. Of course, Caesar Julius O'Reilly, who brought his nation out of piracy, respected the Star League charter and prevented the Legion from using nukes on ground targets. However you may have lost those assurances when Caesar perished in the final assault on Alphard and you decapited the Marian Government.
The Marians, now a civilized state, may be forced back into piracy, but if so, it will be because of the actions of the Spirit Cats, who are attempting to carve out their own Bandit Kingdom. The entire clan is behaving like members of the dark caste, and it's just a matter of time before someone within the Clans notices.
Yes, do stay. ;D
As opposed to slavery or death?
This is all well and good, but twenty years of being 'nice' doesn't make up for over fifty years of rape, pillage and plunder. It's going to take a lot longer of the Marians playing 'nice' to come within the boundaries of decent neighbours.
And you all are conveniently forgetting that it was the Marians who launched an attack on a fellow Star League member state without any concrete evidence of wrongdoing by the second party. And that it was the Marians themselves, along with the Taurian Concordant, that murdered their own sailors. Killed when those two realms gutted that destroyer and used said incident as a pretext for war.
Oh, and guess what. Launched raids on themselves to frame an innocent independent nation and who then used that as a pretext to launch a massive attack and conquered them.
IC, the Marian leadership has used lies, deceipt and murder to gobble up smaller neighbours. Morals worthy of an Inner Sphere Great House.
But the clans do believe in true forgiveness. While I do agree that they did things that would warrant this action, I see both sides of this coin, one side claims to have changed, but wasn't given a chance to prove it, the other side was working off the template and guidelines they had been given. On the other hand, I can't blame the cats for their actions and I think it should be an interesting mix from here on. Sorry to hear Ceaser died. I know when I ran the fed suns, we kept a spec ops detail on him at all times. Perhaps he could have had some help getting to a safer place?
I will note that the Cats arn't the only faction that seemingly managed to carry on a grudge for 20 years over some slight or another...
... and the sooner we Leaguers get thouse damn Terrans, the better, right?!
They will stay, GI J, they will. At least its gonna be interesting, right? Even if it went not so well with us 2 involved.
And yeah, blame me for the bad execution of the stuff, happens when one does not check the rules or is generally on his own with all this. A corrector at the side from time to time was really good, thats why I mostly envy the factions that have 2 or more players.
Quote from: Parmenion on July 06, 2011, 12:05:08 PM
As opposed to slavery or death?
This is all well and good, but twenty years of being 'nice' doesn't make up for over fifty years of rape, pillage and plunder. It's going to take a lot longer of the Marians playing 'nice' to come within the boundaries of decent neighbours.
And you all are conveniently forgetting that it was the Marians who launched an attack on a fellow Star League member state without any concrete evidence of wrongdoing by the second party. And that it was the Marians themselves, along with the Taurian Concordant, that murdered their own sailors. Killed when those two realms gutted that destroyer and used said incident as a pretext for war.
Oh, and guess what. Launched raids on themselves to frame an innocent independent nation and who then used that as a pretext to launch a massive attack and conquered them.
IC, the Marian leadership has used lies, deceipt and murder to gobble up smaller neighbours. Morals worthy of an Inner Sphere Great House.
IIRC, the Magistracy wasn't a Star League Member at the time, and in fact refused to acknowledge the MH as a legitimate state at the time. (I don't know of any attacks PRIOR to Turn 26, unless you count the MH/FWL war and the rickokulous force levels the then-staff gave the Terran Hegemony...) None of those involved the Spirit-Cats directly, so there's no source for a grudge there, the MH was decidedly inactive during the renewed Clan offensive, so there's no basis of a grudge THERE, and they let the Spirit Cats HAVE NIOPS without a fight, so there's none there (hell, based on the map, the Cats had to transit Marian Space unless the FWL was actively helping them to take NIOPS, which is a relationship about as dirty as anything you've listed.)
it's a land-grab, which is part of the game, but the manner of the action was, well...
poorly thought out, and based on obselete information, or it would've succeeded a bit more thoroughly. There was ample time for the Spirit Cats to adjust their force deployments before orders-due (final) for turn 1, if they'd done so, they'd have both hexes uncontested, based on sheer numbers sent in.
That's my criticism on the tactical front-they attacked before they were actually ready. Are they Clanners, or Kzin?
Strategically, the template didn't account for political changes in the environment-do the Marians have allies that might actually do something? how much foreign development is going in, and are those foreign powers going to notice? The presence of G(MF) on a couple sites in the Hegemony means that unlike NIOPS (Which was effectively cut off from everyone either by politics, or geography and had NO foreign investment), the Marians have someone who isn't going to be keen to lose their property to a hostile third party.
Some of those taking offense have forces in or near the area, and likely won't be keen on letting those forces be annihilated without a response either.
at this point, the Spirit Cats
Need to make their case-if not to the inner sphere states, then to the Grand Council, as to why it's vital that their operations go uninterrupted.
which is probably going to be a tough sell to anyone but the Star Adders (who're having troubles of their own and could probably use the assistance of an ally that owes them quite a lot, really), and the Hell's Horses. (reasons for the second should be obvious.)
The Cats need to engage in a propoganda blitz, I'd actually suggest shotgunning it onto both the Chatterweb, and the IS News threads-not about how successful their operations are (there's not a lot to crow about when you need three to ten times your target's manpower, and you fail to secure the sector), but about the good 'moral' reasons behind their operations-why it's necessary, why it was necessary to wait, and why it is necessary to act. a couple Disseminate missions framing the Marians for bandit raids or something would help too. They also need to start aggressively pursuing diplomacy with neighbours and neutrals both to firm up coverage on their rear areas, and to cut the Marians off from potential foreign assistance.
In this situation, the Cats can't just wait for others to want to talk to them-they're CLAN, nobody outside the Clans is going to make the first move unless they want something from them.
All your points are quite sound, Cannon (I miss our RP collaborations), but much of what you say need manpower to do. I hope I get the Orders in time to create facts, you know? And yes, they should go out on the PR front, they are investigating what happened to the WoB there. It was their base outside Terra etc. etc.
But well. Cant do much right now.
Quote from: Parmenion on July 06, 2011, 12:05:08 PM
As opposed to slavery or death?
This is all well and good, but twenty years of being 'nice' doesn't make up for over fifty years of rape, pillage and plunder. It's going to take a lot longer of the Marians playing 'nice' to come within the boundaries of decent neighbours.
And you all are conveniently forgetting that it was the Marians who launched an attack on a fellow Star League member state without any concrete evidence of wrongdoing by the second party. And that it was the Marians themselves, along with the Taurian Concordant, that murdered their own sailors. Killed when those two realms gutted that destroyer and used said incident as a pretext for war.
Oh, and guess what. Launched raids on themselves to frame an innocent independent nation and who then used that as a pretext to launch a massive attack and conquered them.
IC, the Marian leadership has used lies, deceipt and murder to gobble up smaller neighbours. Morals worthy of an Inner Sphere Great House.
Thank you for such flattery. ;D
Sadly, I can't take all the credit, but one thing is true, the Marian Hegemony has struggled to gain recognition as a Star League member with a standing close to those of one of the Great Houses. You have to remember that the Hegemony is a very young state, born out of the hard scrabble lot of the Periphery in the early 3000's. Piracy was the norm. The previous faction head spent considerable time developing them, eliminating slavery, and making the Lothian League an equal partner. Granted, they were not immune to taking advantage of the occassional bit of intrigue to achieve their ends. Of course, Parmenion is treating us to a nice taste of the kind of propaganda that the Magistracy of Canopus will use to take advantage of the Hegemony's current situation.
This is considerablly refreshing compared to the bandits formerly known as Clan Spirit Cat, who have never really advertised the reasons for their actions. They seem to either view the Marian Hegemony as undeveloped real estate, or they have some kind of undisclosed link to the Magistracy of Canopus. Either way, their actions won't gain them any glory in the eyes of their fellow Clans. As I recall, the Coalition of Periphery States did make a push on the Magistracy, with the Marians leading the way, claiming that the Magistracy of Canopus was colluding with the Clans. Sadly, the Star League didn't see it that way, and the offensive stalled. When we left them, the involved parties were at the negotiating table, until finally the Spirit Cats crushed the absentee Niops faction. This effectively disbanded the CoPS and returned control of all Magistracy planets to their rightful owner.
I wouldn't expect the Magistracy of Canopus to forgive and forget, even after twenty years of the Marians "playing nice." However, I wouldn't have expected the Spirit Cats to get involved at all.
Go figure.
Quote from: Marlin on July 06, 2011, 05:55:57 PM
All your points are quite sound, Cannon (I miss our RP collaborations), but much of what you say need manpower to do. I hope I get the Orders in time to create facts, you know? And yes, they should go out on the PR front, they are investigating what happened to the WoB there. It was their base outside Terra etc. etc.
But well. Cant do much right now.
Investigating my capitals with the Khan, SaKhan, and a fleet of WarShips?
With that investigative team, the only evidence your recon-in-overwhelming-force is likely to find are the Alamo missiles that I used to vaporize your WarShips. That's definitely a side benefit of past Word of Blake support, whose technological aid packages tended to include a disproportionate number of weapons of mass destruction. Lucky for you, I've chosen to use them responsibily. ;)
If this is your motivation, it's also unfortunate that you initially targeted only the capital worlds, leaving any real or imagined Word of Blake elements at my other improved communication site free to respond. Therefore, I can only hope your invasion is entirely without merit, and there are no WoB agents hiding in Marian space.
--
Quote from: Marlin on July 06, 2011, 05:55:57 PM
All your points are quite sound, Cannon (I miss our RP collaborations), but much of what you say need manpower to do. I hope I get the Orders in time to create facts, you know? And yes, they should go out on the PR front, they are investigating what happened to the WoB there. It was their base outside Terra etc. etc.
But well. Cant do much right now.
Based on the reputation of the Spirit Cat navy, and on your attacking forces at Alphard, you don't have a manpower shortage to speak of-the force you sent is enough to cover almost every hex in the MH if you were recon-raiding, for instance, plus you have the SC's special-forces units for certain missions, plus budget for a host of intel ops that, if you hadn't hauled off in the first turn, could've developed sufficient intel to know where he's strong, where he's weak, and where his nukes were.
Your strategy as it stands could manage to still survive and net you results, but again, that's only because you outnumber him so much that you can still blow attack rolls and win in simple res-the only chance he's got is to pop '12's in large numbers-repeatedly.
which goes back to my original point-under those conditions, if the smaller faction HAS nukes, they're negligent if they DON'T use them. Your WoB pretext doesn't hold up to even a cursory look, because you targeted zones that don't HAVE the IC's that would be staffed by a WoB force. This leaves only a couple base options for why you're doing this...
1. The MoC hired the Cats to attack their old enemies
2. The FWL hired the Cats to attack an old irritation.
3. Clan Spirit Cat is carving an empire in the south, away from the other Clans.
1&2 are really the same option-the Spirit Cats are doing this on behalf of someone else-a motive that better fits known 'mercenary' states like the UIW, which has a twenty-year reputation of only fighting other people's wars, in exchange for industrial development and Cash-and only justified by the relative poverty of the faction, They even advertise their services with fixed rates and contract terms. NOT the reputation you want for a Clan, whom fight for Honour as much as Territory.
3 Raises questions about the motives of the Spirit Cats themselves-and why not? they used to be NovaCats, a Clan that turned on the other Clans and went into exile with the Terrans, they next are seen coming to the Homeworlds, hands-out, with data designed to trigger a major war-a war that cost more than one Clan their very existence. Their ally the Star Adders are under massive Lyran attack, and the balance in that combat is not going in favour of that ally...and where is the Spirit Cat Fleet? Too far away to affect the outcome, and they OWE the Adders much of the territory they hold above Waypoint.
What can be derived, based on the last 25 years in-game, is that the SC's are indifferent allies verging on serial traitors-they've betrayed everyone in both the Inner Sphere and Clans at least ONCE-in public perception-but the ground-shot is that they're not reliable allies, and after this series of programmed attacks, they're not particularly good strategists when working for their own benefit.
But, they DO have a large and powerful fleet (relative to other states, maybe not relative to the Dominion, but that's a super-state of a different, bluer colour.)
The presence of FWL designs in the Spirit Cat fleet (and the absence of conflict with said FWL) points large and bright to option 2 of the list-the Cats are Cat's paws for....
...an Inner Sphere Great House.
This can, if true, prove difficult to explain, as the Clans that have OPEN relationships with Great Houses (Jade Falcon, Ghost Bear, Snow Raven, Hell's Horses) have this relationship openly, they make no pretense of independence-of-action where the interests of both House, and Clan, merge.
Unlike "mercenary" factions, the Spirit Cats, having only recently won back a seat on the Grand Council, MUST maintain the image of Legitimacy within said council-their position there is too fragile to risk even the scented hint of potential betrayal, or weakness. Even with Clans in exile and destroyed, (and it's a fair list of both) the problem the Cats have, is that the Grand Council is made of people that, if they're true-to-type, aren't particularly patient OR forgiving folks when it comes to errors among their own.
All that said, "I" know you were just finishing Hugin's plan... but that plan was put together when the map looked VERY different.
Had the cats acted earlier, maybe they would have gotten a bigger piece of the jump forward pie. :)
The fact that they waited, meant they had to fighter the Marians after they got their piece. Makes a for a bigger war, and as people stated before, we now have 2 groups that have spent some of their "Mad Money" for an in game effect.
The Lyrans have been busy, but they've also saved their mad money by issuing trials, conveniently after the Archon said there would be no Zell for the honorless snakes :P Sounded kinda like FS-DC talk :) We know who'se related to who now ;)
its called rousing the troops ;)
Nice writeup Cannon. You should really join some Clan. Perhaps even the Cats. :)
Seriously. The GC is not what it used to be. To the rest, I wont comment too much. I think if it keeps people thinking about possibilities, it is a good thing and keeps the game alive. Bad enough that all the big powers in the east play nice with each other.
Well without a DC player, there really isn't much that can be done in the east
What has happened with Grey?
And besides, even when they had one or more, there was one major incident quite early in the game, after that, peace.
Quote from: Marlin on July 07, 2011, 05:54:11 PM
Nice writeup Cannon. You should really join some Clan. Perhaps even the Cats. :)
Seriously. The GC is not what it used to be. To the rest, I wont comment too much. I think if it keeps people thinking about possibilities, it is a good thing and keeps the game alive. Bad enough that all the big powers in the east play nice with each other.
right at the moment, I need to get the Cappies into some kind of shape worthy of handing off to another player first-I didn't realize what a basket-case mistake I was making until it was too late with them. Once they're in-shape and handed off to a new boss, I can think about taking another faction.
It'll probably be the Blood Spirits-why?
Because there aren't that many of the Clans I
like left close enough to 'open' to be worth the effort. Daemonknight's got the Falcons pretty much front-to-back, someone else has the Steel Vipers, the Bears, Snow Ravens, etc. are one big happy superstate now, the Hell's Horses are in good hands, and the Goliath Scorpions are...well...gone.
Oh, and the Star Adders? Unrecognizable, too many changes, too many policies that, in my "Clanner" Game-Face I'd have to challenge over.
You'll note, I'm not all that keen on Warden Clans. I consider the Crusader philosophy (when articulated intelligently) to be a better grounding in-character than the Warden, esply in this setting.
I never really
liked the Cats, even when they were just Nova-Cats, and Diamond Shark as a faction doesn't do anything for me either. Playing Clanner for me means playing Crusader, and in particular, playing crusader means playing someone who honestly and sincerely believes in the Way of the Clans, and honestly thinks that that way needs to be spread in a war of conversion, with guns, for the honest beneficience of his fellow man.
It also means measuring both the character's 'self' and his Clan by adherence to the Honour Road, and HONOURABLE success in battle-winning isn't everything, winning with HONOUR is.
The only "Crusader" clan that still has more than a vestige of that, that is also open..? NOT the Cats.
So...for the time being, I'm satisfied with running my two little factions-the UIW, and the Cappies, and maybe eventually I'll be able to hand off the Cappies to some lucky person after I've gotten them sorted out into something worthy of being a nemesis to someone.
Quote from: Marlin on July 07, 2011, 06:19:40 PM
What has happened with Grey?
And besides, even when they had one or more, there was one major incident quite early in the game, after that, peace.
Grey left the game before the turn actually started. If memory serves, it was before the actual start of the game.
Uh, really? I remember some interesting RP on his side, but if so, damn. :(
Cannon: I see your point. I also share your sentiment regarding the Crusader-Warden-split, however, the game is running for too long to keep those categories imo. I agree though, that the Spirits, with the right leaders, could be some kind of guidance for the few remaining Clans. If they follow their late course, they are just doomed. :-\
You did not mention the Hellions at all, though. I am sad. So very, very sad.
Crash and the Boys - I'm So Sad, So Very, Very, Sad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLz54rWO2xM#ws)
Quote from: Marlin on July 07, 2011, 06:19:40 PM
What has happened with Grey?
And besides, even when they had one or more, there was one major incident quite early in the game, after that, peace.
What has happened to Grey is quite extreme.
1. For those of you who do not know, my son passed away this past Christmas Eve. This event has affected, altered, and warped me in ways I am still discovering. I am coping, but it is a struggle.
2. While this is going on, my (now)ex-girlfriend (my boy's mother) decided this would be a perfect time to exasperate the situation.
Now, in the pre-relaunch, I had a disagreement with another player that added another source of stress I do not need. Compounding the situation, the disagreement was over something that, in my view, went against the spirit, as well as the letter of the Law (rules), as well as my sense of propriety.Trying to get through the mountain of stress I have to deal with in the real world has played out my ability to deal with any extra. In these kind of games, there are going to be disagreements, misunderstandings, hurt-feelings, and what not. But I simply do not have the ability to put up with stress, aggravation, and irritation from what is supposed to be a recreational activity. Also, my ability to deal with people who are the sources of stress, aggravation, and irritation is limited after being severely compromised. So with a complete lack of the ability to, or desire to, deal with what amounts to be a heaping pile of bull#$%^, what option do I have other than not participate?
I am not writing this to gain sympathy or pity.. I don't want it nor do I need it. Truth is I do not know why. I just felt the need to.
:'(
Did not know that, Grey. I am sorry.
And I still apologize for our little argument flaring into what it did. I wasn't aware of #2, but I can see how that would make RL stresses enough to make dealing with the BS that inevitablly crops up in this game not worth the effort.
Perhaps when this game inevitablly gets shelved and we restart in a different period, you'll consider coming back in some small capacity, so we don't see you disappear totally.
Please change the Spirit Cat Khan to Lasse Morris, Loremaster to Daimon Rwabdogo.
updated
I found my Jump Drive! XD
But have been without power the last two days. :P We were out 3 days last week so I'm trying to catch up on stuff. :) But it's good to have my notes back. Don't have to rename all the commanders again for 200 Clusters :P
Quote from: Fatebringer on July 13, 2011, 01:59:22 PM
I found my Jump Drive! XD
But have been without power the last two days. :P We were out 3 days last week so I'm trying to catch up on stuff. :) But it's good to have my notes back. Don't have to rename all the commanders again for 200 Clusters :P
Only 200? That's a nice little Touman.
better than the Falcons, only about 110 there. 190 if you count the ASF detachment as separate, which i usually don't. Never got around to doing each cluster, though I did all my Galaxy Commanders. Naming them and all the RCT commanders was headache enough.
Some of the "Claw" Clusters are like 1.5 FP, Claws being all elemental units. ;)
ah, yeah, I don't have any of those :P
and I've got like 20 of them :P
Guess Grae must have blown all our money on Texas Hold-em, since we've only got 90 clusters ::) And we don't know the commanders for more than four or so of them.
I never got around to naming most of my FS commanders. I have Christian Johnny who commands the Davion Brigade of Guards(i forget which RCT he's actually in direct command of), and Arthur Steiner-Davion. Otherwise, I'll have to make them up as I go and remember to make a note of them.
Though I did all my warship captains for the LA/CJF...not sure why I never got around to doing up the FS. And theres no way I could give a name to every regimental commander in the FS or LA...gods, each RCT is 7-10 regiments...eagh, I'd be looking at a few hundred names, per faction. *shudder* Thats a bit too much devotion, lol. I killed myself for 2 days writing all the unique RP for my turn 1 attacks. Hope nobody expects that of me again :P in scope of attacks, or the RP written. Tried as hard as possible not to make any of it sound copied, though I know it kinda started to flow together near the end.
I noticed combat threads are up, when are we getting our turn reports?
That's it, I am fucking done
25 damn trials posted...so far
I dont have the fucking time, let alone the damn desire to reply to 20+ fucking combat threads AGAIN...the lack of IC posts in those threads should have been a clear indication of that
last turn everytime I had some good RP I wanted to post, Id see those combat threads and that desire just evaporated
and seeing another score of such threads appear has killed my desire to continue playing
enjoy this fucking game without me, I am outta here
Quote from: GraeGor on July 14, 2011, 05:54:30 PM
That's it, I am fucking done
25 damn trials posted...so far
I dont have the fucking time, let alone the damn desire to reply to 20+ fucking combat threads AGAIN...the lack of IC posts in those threads should have been a clear indication of that
last turn everytime I had some good RP I wanted to post, Id see those combat threads and that desire just evaporated
and seeing another score of such threads appear has killed my desire to continue playing
enjoy this fucking game without me, I am outta here
Damn. I did NOT see that much activity happening on that front this turn, all prior indicators showed Daemonknight was consolidating his gains and preparing for a counter.
And here I was, laboring under the misconception that we were playing a WARgame. Not a Skirmish-game, or a raid-game, but war. War usually evokes a certain scale of conflict, that being a large scale. To look at the cannon, we see conflicts spanning hundreds of light-years, dozens of inhabited star systems, and involving hundreds of thousands of soldiers. Excuse me for launching an operation commensurate with the background material.
And this isn't an argument about rules vs RP driving the game, that's irrelevant. The stories we develop, are done so to a backdrop of massive interstellar wars, very tenuous alliances, and tense borders. I have an enemy on my border, who tends to focus large forces on singular objectives, concentrating their firepower to maximum effect. The effective counter strategy, is to attack enough targets that your enemy is unable to employ this strategy and has to spread out; worst-case we're at even strength, if my cards are played right, I have numerical advantage more often than not.
Here is my other problem: if you're time is very limited, and you can't deal with spending a lot of time on this game, why does someone insist on running a faction? There is plenty that could use a second player. It takes 30 seconds to respond to a trial with a token "we bid X forces" post, and maybe another 30 seconds to make the rolls required once I've accepted. 25 trials(and that is all of them btw), lets say 2 minutes per trial, means a total of less than an hour. Less than 1 hour of time required, over the course of a month, to get through all the trials. I spend more time planning out the minimal RP I wrote, than it would take to actually finish the trials up.
I play the strategy portion of the game, like the strategy game that it is. I write the RP alongside it. Just like you need a character sheet to play DnD, you need the strategy game to give the RP something to stick to. Its all one package, like it or not. As I say, if you want the RP without the game itself, we call that fanfic, and there is a nice big section of the CBT boards just for fanfic.
Alright Folks...reports are being processed but at the same time I DO have to ensure that eventually I begin to make some form of steady and Legitimate income. On the other hand participation in this game is optional and making an issue of being smacked around by an opponent WILL NOT get me to put a leash on a player. Rules violations will which is why I look over orders sheets. I have been paitent and let a lot of the OOC bickering slide but I WILL not tolerate further public displays of interplayer dirty laundry. Period.
I have been in Grae's shoes and understand the whys of his departure but I also see DK's point as well. Grae made his choice and I wish him well. I also appreciate the work he put in to fixing the mess that was the Adders.
In closing this game has been running for well over 5 years now it has had it's issues but overall it has been an achievement that every player and staff member should be proud of. It has survived numerous staff changes and a move from one site to another as well as the comings and goings off too many players to count. So let's finish this turn and see where we stand. I will open a thread to explore options for what to do next.
Okay, so Iron Mongoose needs either to join a running faction, or get someone in to babysit the strategic and paperwork end of the Star Adders so he can do some fun Roleplaying.
Whoever ends up in that barrel's going to have to have a copy of the current order-sheet (from the GM staff) and the immediate task of resolving 25 fights this turn.
If nobody steps up, Deathrider's going to have to spend time resolving 25 fights this turn instead-which will probably make all sorts of GM functions LATE.
Now, I've had a running rule not to play factions that are adjacent for a reason-I've been desperately trying to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest, which would be a big one in the case of the UIW in this, a faction that I not only run, but created and have a certain amount of attachment to.
So, who's got a free hand they can throw on this, that isn't either part of the Adders, or on their border?
We ought to do this quick, so that it doesn't hash up moves this turn or delay things for next. Fact is the faction's in play, so it NEEDS a stand-in to babysit the paperwork, if nothing else.
I will make a decision on the Adders based on what IM wants to do and what he has time for. There are lots of things going down this turn most will appear once reports are released. They WILL be out NLT SUNDAY NIGHT. Reports for late factions will be released 7 calandar days from initial report release.
Nice posturing Marlin, but you didn't actually prove anything with the ToG. Winning a ToG doesn't prove your opinion, it settles a dispute. And honestly, the fact that your Khan wouldn't leave his mech, doesn't reflect badly on the Falcon warrior, it proves your afraid of him. So nice try with the spin control.
Everything we write on here is spin control, it is the version of events as we see it and want others to also. One thing i have learned in my many years in the FGC is that the truth bears no meaning, only what you can push others to view as the truth.
I think that that's true for a lot of things.
Of course, also in a lot of things, people belive not just what is pushed on them, but what they chouse to let be pushed on themselves, which doesn't help.
LOL! A catastrophic misjump has caused nearly the entire Marian Legion to vanish into space!
Commanded by Trierarchos Jon Magdalyna of the MHS Carausius, the Marian Hegemony Navy fleet on its way to relieve Lothario has disappeared. I don't know where they are, but this nuclear armed fleet was backed by several of the Legions, plus every unit I could launch with every JumpShip and transport I possessed.
Now they are gone, vanished without a trace!
Fear not, lovers of Roman Space Pirates! Nothing ever goes away forever in the BattleTech universe. The Marian Hegemony may fall, but now its spirit will live on elsewhere in the galaxy!
That is sick.
But yeah, perhaps they come back up somewhere and build a new society. I gotta write some RP about it in the thread.
Quote from: GI Journalist on July 17, 2011, 08:49:05 AM
LOL! A catastrophic misjump has caused nearly the entire Marian Legion to vanish into space!
Commanded by Trierarchos Jon Magdalyna of the MHS Carausius, the Marian Hegemony Navy fleet on its way to relieve Lothario has disappeared. I don't know where they are, but this nuclear armed fleet was backed by several of the Legions, plus every unit I could launch with every JumpShip and transport I possessed.
Now they are gone, vanished without a trace!
Fear not, lovers of Roman Space Pirates! Nothing ever goes away forever in the BattleTech universe. The Marian Hegemony may fall, but now its spirit will live on elsewhere in the galaxy!
The dice gods have been unbelievably cruel to you :(
Quote from: Dave Baughman on July 17, 2011, 09:38:56 AM
Quote from: GI Journalist on July 17, 2011, 08:49:05 AM
LOL! A catastrophic misjump has caused nearly the entire Marian Legion to vanish into space!
Commanded by Trierarchos Jon Magdalyna of the MHS Carausius, the Marian Hegemony Navy fleet on its way to relieve Lothario has disappeared. I don't know where they are, but this nuclear armed fleet was backed by several of the Legions, plus every unit I could launch with every JumpShip and transport I possessed.
Now they are gone, vanished without a trace!
Fear not, lovers of Roman Space Pirates! Nothing ever goes away forever in the BattleTech universe. The Marian Hegemony may fall, but now its spirit will live on elsewhere in the galaxy!
The dice gods have been unbelievably cruel to you :(
I think GWA would laugh though. Must tell him about this.
DK... where did you get an Outpost class dropship from?
Its a dropship thats been around for decades. Everyone likely has a few examples.
About the MH's tagic misjump: I assume you were on Invasion orders for those troops? They can't actually utilize Pirate Insertion. It specificlly states in the rules that you can't use Pirate Insert for Invasions. So your forces dont disappear.
Quote from: Daemonknight on July 17, 2011, 11:25:32 AM
Its a dropship thats been around for decades. Everyone likely has a few examples.
No. Unless the GMs have allowed a second faction to own and manufacture the Outpost,
everyone doesn't likely have a few examples. It is a Clan Hell's Horses dropship, not a falcon vessel, and as the CHH/HA Khan I know exactly how many others have either trialled for the ship or been given some. Or might even have picked up one in combat. Don't count on it being a number greater than zero.
Otherwise, by your reckoning, everyone can have a few Leviathians or a few Thera as they too have been around for decades.
Quote from: Daemonknight on July 17, 2011, 11:25:32 AM
Its a dropship thats been around for decades. Everyone likely has a few examples.
About the MH's tagic misjump: I assume you were on Invasion orders for those troops? They can't actually utilize Pirate Insertion. It specificlly states in the rules that you can't use Pirate Insert for Invasions. So your forces dont disappear.
No such rules are listed under the orders section for Naval Engagements. Pirate Transit or Blockade Running was a requirement for entering a Blockaded system. Nor did I consider it an invasion, as the system is still contested, and my ground forces were on a relief mission for the defense. I didn't want to waste them running your Blockade, so I gambled on a Pirate Transit roll.
I opted to attempt Pirate Transit in an attempt to either get a jump on your forces or force a Naval Engagement with your Blockade. It was a risky move, and I knew it. I took my chances, so now I'll take my lumps. Had I succeeded, I would be bombarding your ground forces from orbit right now and nuking your fleet into particulate matter, so you should not feel the least need to protect me from the consequences of my decision.
I stand by my decision to use Pirate Transit. The Legion disappears into space and fades into history. I'm afraid you'll have to satify your need for conquest on the remaining pockets of resistance.
Don't worry...there's still plenty of defenders waiting for you on other planets! ;D
---
Psssttt... GI Journalist. Daemonknight isn't the clanner your looking for. Marlin is running the Cats.
Quote from: Parmenion on July 17, 2011, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: Daemonknight on July 17, 2011, 11:25:32 AM
Its a dropship thats been around for decades. Everyone likely has a few examples.
No. Unless the GMs have allowed a second faction to own and manufacture the Outpost, everyone doesn't likely have a few examples. It is a Clan Hell's Horses dropship, not a falcon vessel, and as the CHH/HA Khan I know exactly how many others have either trialled for the ship or been given some. Or might even have picked up one in combat. Don't count on it being a number greater than zero.
Otherwise, by your reckoning, everyone can have a few Leviathians or a few Thera as they too have been around for decades.
Yeah, except for the fact we don't track warships the same way we track everything else. Don't be dense. And I don't agree that you would be able to account for every single Outpost thats ever been built by your faction since 63 when they were first put into production. Does anyone else have Summoners? Because thats a Falcon-built design, but I'm willing to bet others have them. And by everyone, I meant the Clans. Just like every Clan has Summoners, or Timber Wolves, despite those being Jade Falcon and Wolf designs respectively.
And I would love to see the ledger you've kept for every single Outpost ever built by the Hell's Horses since 63, since you've said you know exactly how many trials have been fought, and how many might've been picked up as salvage.
Quote from: GI Journalist on July 17, 2011, 02:01:15 PM
No such rules are listed under the orders section for Naval Engagements. Pirate Transit or Blockade Running was a requirement for entering a Blockaded system. Nor did I consider it an invasion, as the system is still contested, and my ground forces were on a relief mission for the defense. I didn't want to waste them running your Blockade, so I gambled on a Pirate Transit roll.
I opted to attempt Pirate Transit in an attempt to either get a jump on your forces or force a Naval Engagement with your Blockade. It was a risky move, and I knew it. I took my chances, so now I'll take my lumps. Had I succeeded, I would be bombarding your ground forces from orbit right now and nuking your fleet into particulate matter, so you should not feel the least need to protect me from the consequences of my decision.
Invasion is an order type GI. All your ground forces had to be on Invasion orders if your intent was to attack the planet and retake control. Those ground forces couldn't have attempted a Pirate Insertion, so they don't disappear. If you had naval forces on Naval Engagement orders, they could try a Pirate Insert(though I've no idea why would try and avoid the enemy's aerospace forces, when you are trying to engage their aerospace forces...).
Hmmm....In the case of GI Journalist's lost Legion...the rules may not allow for it (the option is not there I checked) if he wants to use the result and make roleplay spawn from it I will allow his unit lost scenario to stand. This is with the understanding that in the future he understands that Invading units cannot use the pirate transit rule to bypass blockades. THIS POST DOES NOT CHANGE THE RULES it is a one time ruling. Pirate transit is used for Naval Recon and raiding.
To be clear since GI has accepted his dice roll (which was horrible) and is having fun with it I'm gonna let him.
I'm satisfied with this decision.
There was method to my madness, even though it went horriblly, horriblly wrong. I'm very happy to let the Legion follow the fleet into obscurity, rather than try to separate my tactical errors from my rules misinterpretations.
Thanks for trying DK, but there's really no saving me from myself. ;)
Just for the sake of clarity, am I right to think this means that any invading ground or naval unit must use the Blockade Running rules? From the way the rules were written, direct naval engagement of a Blockade didn't appear to be one of the options. Engaging enemy aerospace forces piecemeal via Blockade Running didn't appeal to me, so I took a risk. I was attempting to use Pirate Transit to force a total naval engagement or perhaps even bypass his force entirely. I considered the actual result unlikely.
Woe to those who tempt the dice gods! ;D
---
Quote from: Parmenion on July 17, 2011, 02:46:08 PM
Psssttt... GI Journalist. Daemonknight isn't the clanner your looking for. Marlin is running the Cats.
Oh, right. I'm just so use to arguing with Marlin about the rules, I didn't notice who the post was from. I should have realized.
Sorry about that.
Quote from: GI Journalist on July 17, 2011, 07:00:52 PM
Quote from: Parmenion on July 17, 2011, 02:46:08 PM
Psssttt... GI Journalist. Daemonknight isn't the clanner your looking for. Marlin is running the Cats.
Oh, right. I'm just so use to arguing with Marlin about the rules, I didn't notice who the post was from. I should have realized.
Sorry about that.
GI please PM me the force data on what you lost to the GM account we can always use pirates!
Just a note reports are done save for some infomation that is on orders I have not recieved I am sending out PM's tonight (or at least trying to) I am not feeling well. Rest assured I will get the information to you as soon as I feel better.
Quote from: Daemonknight on July 17, 2011, 04:56:42 PM
Quote from: Parmenion on July 17, 2011, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: Daemonknight on July 17, 2011, 11:25:32 AM
Its a dropship thats been around for decades. Everyone likely has a few examples.
No. Unless the GMs have allowed a second faction to own and manufacture the Outpost, everyone doesn't likely have a few examples. It is a Clan Hell's Horses dropship, not a falcon vessel, and as the CHH/HA Khan I know exactly how many others have either trialled for the ship or been given some. Or might even have picked up one in combat. Don't count on it being a number greater than zero.
Otherwise, by your reckoning, everyone can have a few Leviathians or a few Thera as they too have been around for decades.
Yeah, except for the fact we don't track warships the same way we track everything else. Don't be dense. And I don't agree that you would be able to account for every single Outpost thats ever been built by your faction since 63 when they were first put into production. Does anyone else have Summoners? Because thats a Falcon-built design, but I'm willing to bet others have them. And by everyone, I meant the Clans. Just like every Clan has Summoners, or Timber Wolves, despite those being Jade Falcon and Wolf designs respectively.
And I would love to see the ledger you've kept for every single Outpost ever built by the Hell's Horses since 63, since you've said you know exactly how many trials have been fought, and how many might've been picked up as salvage.
I always get a good chuckle when new guys like you come into the game and think they know everything. The Summoner was around pre-gam in canon, which even I think you will agree on. And because canon had that Mech as being used more or less with every Clan, then non-CJF Clans had a legitimate right to use it in limited numbers at the start of the game. FM: Updates was used quite extensively at the time to determine who had what, what they could use and what they could produce. Are you keeping up so far?
Now in regards the Outpost, it was a design introduced within the game itself. And it is indeed a Hell's Horses design. We introduced it into our Touman quite recently in regards the number of cycles ago. Cycle 43 to be precise. I still have the PM from the GM at the time, which I'm more than happy to forward to the actual GM of this game. Yes, twenty years have passed since then, however none of the previous Falcon leadership ever raised interest in obtaining any, nor did you when you picked up the Falcons during the pause.
Amend you post.
Can I just jump on the chuckle band-wagon for this? Really, there's little more to say than what's been said, I think.
Effective immediately I am taking over the Administraive and Combat rolls for CSA. IM is the role play guy still so ALL PM's regarding CSA must be CC'ed to the GM account AND my personal PM boxes so I don't torpedo IM's RP posts because I move something or someone because I don't know what IM has been told regarding possible joint ops or blow away you ilchi's jumpship as it arrives >:( because I don't know your coming. We all have enough on out plates.
Otherwise putting it simply I'm the orders guy if I don't know about it before I do the sheet then it ain't gonna happen. You have been warned.
I would like to talk about an extension for this turn. I will be getting up the last threads of my factions but then it is already late. An extension could also give us some breathing room to allow for some MegaMek, there is the Niflsmeet, but there could be others. I think foremost of the Adder trials. What do you think?
It's only the eighteenth, Marlin, we've got seven days to get this done, that mass of attacks last turn took about an hour to resolve out. Part of what killed the last game, was the constant reliance on extensions-usually granted, followed by long stretches of both jack, and shit from the people who asked for 'em (and a healthy quantity of whining and complaint when things didn't go their way in spite of the extensions.)
The only reason I see for any extensions to even be talked about, is hard and fast appointments for Megamek fights that can't make the deadline, and that's only a couple days' worth, give or take. Fights going to Simpres are going to go to simpres, and they'll be resolved in minutes, not hours or days.
Short form, based on what's gone on here before, extensions are counterproductive delaying tactics far more often than they are beneficial. They should be granted rarely, and for very short periods only, for very specific reasons, and when one is granted, this site should be busier than hell making use of it.
Which ain't hte pattern historically with turn extensions-the more common pattern is another long period of inactivity followed by a chorus of "WTF???" when the extension lapses and the people who've asked for it are whistle-bit because the opponent they were ignoring wasn't ignoring them. (Coventry in turn 43/44/45 is a perfect, textbook, example of this.)
That's my argument against extending THIS turn. Unless you've got a bunch of scheduled MM fights that can't finish in the next seven days, and both you and your opponent are going to actually show up to fight them out with a witness, there's no reason to stretch it out-RP posts can be (and you an' I have done this) shuttled back-and-forth and posted in a fairly short time, or in the periods where nothing else is going on, there's the entire PM system, plus Skype, plus the board itself.
Oh, and Marlin, you've got seventeen threads to reply to in the combat threads area, mostly dice-rolls, including 2 raid responses, a handfull of Naval Recons that were seen, and counter-rolls for a batch of Commerce Disruptions.
If you really NEED me to write RP for those, I will, but most of them aren't important enough to actually do that until we have some results numbers, and the clock's ticking.
I saw those with disgust. Hopefully I can do them tomorrow or Wednesday, cant do much more right now. :P
If you want, do some RP of course. :) I trust you on that one.
Quote from: Marlin on July 18, 2011, 06:16:57 PM
I saw those with disgust. Hopefully I can do them tomorrow or Wednesday, cant do much more right now. :P
If you want, do some RP of course. :) I trust you on that one.
I hope you have some good fights in there for me, I picked targets that should have significant defenses, and blew all my intel checks-the only way I'll know what my opposition is at this point, is the recon ops-and that'll only tell me Naval-you're at an advantage...
Dunno. You picked the right target. All not today though, I gotta get away from the PC.
Nilfsmeet is not affected by combat deadlines so is not a valid excuse for an extension. All combat hreads that are not resolved by the 25th will end up in my hands unless I decide to extend as I am still waiting for some orders select combat threads may not appear until next turn much to the annoyance of people who got thier orders in.
Yes, the Niflsmeet is a 1 day event and will start on time. If people don't show up, people don't show up and it will be RP only. I haven't had a Megamek game and the way people haven't been playing megamek, I don't expect a lot of participation :(
Quote from: Deathrider6 on July 18, 2011, 09:55:33 AM
Effective immediately I am taking over the Administraive and Combat rolls for CSA. IM is the role play guy still so ALL PM's regarding CSA must be CC'ed to the GM account AND my personal PM boxes so I don't torpedo IM's RP posts because I move something or someone because I don't know what IM has been told regarding possible joint ops or blow away you ilchi's jumpship as it arrives >:( because I don't know your coming. We all have enough on out plates.
Otherwise putting it simply I'm the orders guy if I don't know about it before I do the sheet then it ain't gonna happen. You have been warned.
So does that mean you're posting the big attack, or am I?
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on July 19, 2011, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: Deathrider6 on July 18, 2011, 09:55:33 AM
Effective immediately I am taking over the Administraive and Combat rolls for CSA. IM is the role play guy still so ALL PM's regarding CSA must be CC'ed to the GM account AND my personal PM boxes so I don't torpedo IM's RP posts because I move something or someone because I don't know what IM has been told regarding possible joint ops or blow away you ilchi's jumpship as it arrives >:( because I don't know your coming. We all have enough on out plates.
Otherwise putting it simply I'm the orders guy if I don't know about it before I do the sheet then it ain't gonna happen. You have been warned.
So does that mean you're posting the big attack, or am I?
Post it IM I'll roll it out.
This is the first offensive in twenty-some-odd turns I have launched against ANYONE. I planned a few back in C27 and C28, but they didn't go anywhere, and there were three minor trials in C41.
But this,here, is the first on-screen offensive I've ever launched, and I got more interaction/response so far with the bloody third-party witnesses than I have from the guy I'm attacking.
I work full time, often I end up working over-time. I'd like to be able to finish posting my orders (or not carrying them out) based on the in-game tactical and/or diplomatic situation, rather than based on the timer running out because somebody's panicked 'cause I didn't sit in my corner for yet another turn racking up the infra upgrades.
I know it sounds selfish, but I signed back up to do stuff. I'd like to get on with the doing of the stuff...
Good to hear it, your timing seems to be well done. I myself and trying to work on some politics, us silly ravens are like that ;) The Grand Council situation is particularly entertaining to me. :)
To be honest with you all: if I had known what it meant to do such large scale invasion and then what that triggered, I would have seriously thought about taking over the Spirit Cats. Right now it is more a burden than anything else. Also, I do them harm in not focusing on them in my planning too well, perhaps it would have been better to let them die out. :(
Anyway, just a heads up.
Quote"You Falcons have already lost your honor if you cannot even uphold to the Trials of our Founders. How you even aquired a bloodname is beyond me, lest you would know that the Defender in a Trial determines the manner of the Trial as well as the location. If the Falcons could not afford a Mechwarrior with a Bloodname to fight a Clan and thus do not take Trials seriously, then I cannot help you. The Khan won honorably. You better shut your beak about things you do not understand and tell me how and with what you will defend. Otherwise I will have to show you the folly of your ways."
Daaayum DK! You gonna let an ICE HELLION talk to you that way!?
LOL, granted these aint your geneparent's Hellions :) They got Skills ;)
Hey, Hellions always got skills. Ask those fighting Asa Taney. He was just an idiot off the Battle Field.
*mumbles about youth*
Quote from: Fatebringer on July 21, 2011, 06:42:15 PM
Quote"You Falcons have already lost your honor if you cannot even uphold to the Trials of our Founders. How you even aquired a bloodname is beyond me, lest you would know that the Defender in a Trial determines the manner of the Trial as well as the location. If the Falcons could not afford a Mechwarrior with a Bloodname to fight a Clan and thus do not take Trials seriously, then I cannot help you. The Khan won honorably. You better shut your beak about things you do not understand and tell me how and with what you will defend. Otherwise I will have to show you the folly of your ways."
Daaayum DK! You gonna let an ICE HELLION talk to you that way!?
LOL, granted these aint your geneparent's Hellions :) They got Skills ;)
was the ice weasel prattling on again? my warriors are trained to ignore annoying insects, especially ones who require 45 tons of battlemech to deal with a single unarmed warrior. When they stop hiding behind the Grand Loremaster's skirts, and fight like Clanners, perhaps they will be worthy of being listened to. Untill then, I'm not sure theres anything for me to say to them, let alone listen to them drone on about the same worthless arguments from a group of so-called 'superior warriors', who need to wait untill the Adders are absorbing all my forces before they launch their attacks. Cowards are not deserving of honorable treatment.
The Khan fought in a 45 ton Omni, though. ::) Thats nearly half the weight you mentioned, which would indeed be seen as cowardly.
:D
if it takes the Hellions a 45 ton Battlemech piloted by their Khan to defeat a single Jade Falcon eyas, then I hope the Hellion naval arm is packing some experimental new warship designs if it wants to fight my battlemech forces.
Okay folks please read and review the rules...
Okay, so far I've fixed a bunch of shit-units on orders they couldn't carry out due to the rules and my failure to spot certain changes thereupon.
Still leaves me with three invasions (instead of the five I THOUGHT I had) that aren't hashed up, and only one or two groups of units that I need a ruling on as to where they 'stopped' this turn.
Gi Journalist, could you take a look at the other of the invasion threads? Pompey is a victory for you, but perhaps the Cats can pull a bit from those space romans.
Okay, now we're down to resolving the Naval actions off Mainstreet, which includes the SUCCESSFUL Naval Recon, (rolled a 10).
Things Cannonshop learned this turn:
1. Don't make your first required dice-roll on the first post, it ends up with a 'tamper' flag when you go to edit the subject line after item is resolved.
2. check the category of the item you're doing, if it says "Battle", it doesn't have the same problems "Invasion" does.
3. next time you take "a job" for another faction, have your excuses pre-thought-out in-character so you can respond to your opponent's queries clearly, concisely, and intelligently.
4. Don't over-pack your operations. I could've run ten or more physical RAIDS if I hadn't overconcentrated on two objectives.
5. WAIT for recon results, and pester the other guy about them first-some missions need not be launched, it's a nice thing when you know which.
Lol. All good points.
Point 4: I can only apologize. I did not do the Cats justice and that is sad. It shows that having more than 1 factions does harm to one. At least in case of the Mid-Carders or low tiers. :-\
Hey, where's the maps? (not on the map thread.) I have a new guy wants to play.
Say "Hi" Marc.
Map guy has a life....but don't panic one will be forth coming.
1.) A lesson that we all find out eventually. I usually post unit arrival first and any chatter, then do rolls.
2.) Yeah, when saw Commerce distruption was listed as "Invasion" I was confused, I always thought it was a raid.
3.) Amen. I noticed you had a lot of "Help" in the region. AFFS, SLDF, etc.
4.) Dude, you hit each of those planets with a minimum of 3 missions each. That's a lot of work.
5.) The only way to really use Naval Recon the same turn you plan on attacking is to post it early and hope the players being active enough to get an early response.
FYI: We have TWO yes TWO new players coming in for next turn. Interaction is STRONGLY encouraged but rick rolling them and their factions is not. I do expect limited combat operations of some kind from everyone who can to be initiated (raids, recon all that goodness maybe even an invasion or two so that they get the chance to actually get a handle on their factions and the rules). I also would like to thank CS for recruiting both of them They will be watched and guided along by myself and the rest of you I'm sure. To the new folks if you have a question on a rule ALWAYS ASK even if the question is trivial or you can find it yourself. I am happy now that the DC and the TC have dedicated players.
Quote from: Deathrider6 on July 25, 2011, 10:40:46 PM
FYI: We have TWO yes TWO new players coming in for next turn. Interaction is STRONGLY encouraged but rick rolling them and their factions is not. I do expect limited combat operations of some kind from everyone who can to be initiated (raids, recon all that goodness maybe even an invasion or two so that they get the chance to actually get a handle on their factions and the rules). I also would like to thank CS for recruiting both of them They will be watched and guided along by myself and the rest of you I'm sure. To the new folks if you have a question on a rule ALWAYS ASK even if the question is trivial or you can find it yourself. I am happy now that the DC and the TC have dedicated players.
Never going to give up your CAPITAL!!!
We're no strangers to invasion
You don't know the rules andI do
A full commitment's what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't get this deal from any other guy(player)
I just wanna tell you how to play
Gotta make you (mis)understand
Never gonna give up your Capital
Never gonna let you win
Never gonna run around and help you
Never gonna stop make(ing) you cry
Never gonna say goodbye (to your capital)
Never gonna(stop) tell(ing) a lie and hurt you
We've known each other for so long ( not really)
Your heart's been aching, but
You're too shy to say it
Inside, we both know what's been going on
We know the game and we're gonna play it
And if you ask me how I'm feeling
Don't tell me you're too blind to see
Never gonna give you up (your conquered territory)
Never gonna let you down (totally am)
Never gonna run around and desert you (except every time)
Never gonna (stop) make(ing) you cry
Never gonna say goodbye (to your capital)
Never gonna (stop) tell(ing) a lie and hurt you
Yeah that is right...I just rick rolled your post Deathrider
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
(Ooh, give you up)
(Ooh, give you up)
Never gonna give, never gonna give
(Give you up)
Never gonna give, never gonna give
(Give you up)
We've known each other for so long
Your heart's been aching, but
You're too shy to say it
Inside, we both know what's been going on
We know the game and we're gonna play it
I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
Gotta make you understand
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Rob you have waaaaayyy to much free time at work LOL.
Hey, does anyone know a good place to buy Memory Eraser-class bleach? The thought of Chaos singing anything, regardless of topic or tonality, is something I prefer not to live with, just on the off chance he might try and dance/roll/flop around while doing it. And I have no desire to see, imagine, or have explained to me, such an event.
Quote from: Daemonknight on July 26, 2011, 12:07:55 AM
Hey, does anyone know a good place to buy Memory Eraser-class bleach? The thought of Chaos singing anything, regardless of topic or tonality, is something I prefer not to live with, just on the off chance he might try and dance/roll/flop around while doing it. And I have no desire to see, imagine, or have explained to me, such an event.
Yeah...watch me destroy your mind with two words.
Baby oil.
not effective. my mind is already destroyed at this point
Ahh just to prove a point comabt appears to be all resolved at this point (or damnned close).
Hey guys,
It's hard to gauge feelings on a Forum and I know some people in the past have taken things way too personally, myself included. I would like to remind people that this is just a game. One that does not require us to be friends but to follow the rules. There is going to be a certain amount of rules lawyering to put forth someones point, but please don't let frustration interfere with the RP or Game Mechanics.
We really can't afford to lose more players. It happened to at least one person recently and I wouldn't say anything if I wasn't worried it might happen again. From one player to all of us, we need to accept that things happen and keep things In-Character and generate In-Character and Game responses no matter how frustrating things get.
Quote from: Fatebringer on July 27, 2011, 07:00:57 PM
Hey guys,
It's hard to gauge feelings on a Forum and I know some people in the past have taken things way too personally, myself included. I would like to remind people that this is just a game. One that does not require us to be friends but to follow the rules. There is going to be a certain amount of rules lawyering to put forth someones point, but please don't let frustration interfere with the RP or Game Mechanics.
We really can't afford to lose more players. It happened to at least one person recently and I wouldn't say anything if I wasn't worried it might happen again. From one player to all of us, we need to accept that things happen and keep things In-Character and generate In-Character and Game responses no matter how frustrating things get.
Seconded.
Quote from: Deathrider6 on July 26, 2011, 02:33:32 AM
Ahh just to prove a point comabt appears to be all resolved at this point (or damnned close).
Coz I know Fate is the shy and retiring type ;), could I perhaps point you in this direction for but a few moments for Clan Star Adder input:
http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=3040.0 (http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=3040.0)
The Marian Threads will need GM supervision. Not one of the Invasion threads besides Akko, Suetonius and Pompey were answered. What to make of these?
Declare they move forward and ask for GM to post the defenders. They have the orders.
Quote from: Marlin on July 28, 2011, 05:51:37 PM
The Marian Threads will need GM supervision. Not one of the Invasion threads besides Akko, Suetonius and Pompey were answered. What to make of these?
I will handle them Marlin.
Quote from: Deathrider6 on July 28, 2011, 08:52:45 PM
Quote from: Marlin on July 28, 2011, 05:51:37 PM
The Marian Threads will need GM supervision. Not one of the Invasion threads besides Akko, Suetonius and Pompey were answered. What to make of these?
I will handle them Marlin.
Thanks for taking care of those, as I've been off the net. I just stopped by to update the away thread. Catch you all later.
Will be trying to wrap stuff up no later than Sunday night. Been a bit busy.
Still looking for Spec Ops results I PM'd you about...
Daaaayum! Just finished reading War of Reaving. Awesome book! Both as a story and a campaign guide. This one book completely puts the entire Jihad to shame. Go buy this book!
Quote from: Fatebringer on August 04, 2011, 12:32:20 AM
Daaaayum! Just finished reading War of Reaving. Awesome book! Both as a story and a campaign guide. This one book completely puts the entire Jihad to shame. Go buy this book!
Gah, now I have no choice. Time to spend more money...
Wow, it starts with a renegade Clan stealing the founders' genetic legacies in a suicide mission to Strana Mechty. Where have I encountered this plot twist before...?
Seriously though, I'm sure its 100% coincidental. Its just awesome we totally called the way things would go down what, two years ago now?
How about my foreseeing Brett Andrews penchant for pulling pistols and shooting people in the head? :P
Yeah, Fate, thank you for alerting me to this one... its a great read so far :)
Interesting also to see Trials of Annihilation and Abjuration being voted on what may be a simple-majority basis. I wonder when the Grand Council adopted that little twist on the rules?
Quote
I was informed with some candor the other week by a Councilman
(Senior Member Miletus from Radstadt, I believe) that the Republic had grown weary of being a veritable "pet state" under ComStar's watch. While they were still trading one ruler for another (a simplistic
way to see it), the fact was that most Republicans trusted the Dominion more than ComStar.
Yeah, now who was "playing his faction wildly out of character and doing things they would never do in canon" when he launched Operation Red? I got a good :o followed by a LOL when I saw this particulary "crazy anti-canon fan theory" validated :)
Me I am more interested in finding out what Leviathan Prime is.
An Improved Levi II upgraded for even more pawnage???? And yet they did not include any specs on it.
Much nerd rage was had by me.
This book was such a page turner. I was lucky my boss was out and today was my easy day. I bought this about one and stayed at the office reading it til seven, then I finished up my stuff at work and went home :P
I've had buyers remorse from certain TRO's where I bought the thing to see my faction get less than a handful of new toys I wanted, or the JHS that didn't give us any real info, but kept the feel of the moment alive, here, there's none of that. It's brutal and it's beautiful.There were times when we were playing that I wanted to play it safe and keep my warships out of battles because they're my babies, but I felt the clanner in me say, "That's now why they were made" and I put them on the line. This book shows EXACTLY why clanners do what they do.
My personal favorite moment in this book was the Kael Pershaw trick.
Quote...Loremaster Pershaw, the only remaining Falcon warrior on Strana Mechty, challenged Andrews to single combat, "bringing nothing more than my flesh and bones, and the machines grafted to them." Andrews accepted; Reaving the old Falcon warrior would do much for his ris-tar status within the Vipers. As Pershaw prepared to meet the Viper commander, he ordered the rest of the enclave staff to leave with the departing Ghost Bears, with whom he had negotiated passage through Tseng.
Fully expecting an easy win, Star Colonel Andrews entered the Circle of Equals and was dead less than a minute later, the victim of a small laser pistol that had been grafted inside Pershaw's left arm. Because Pershaw had not violated the batchall or the Trial, Andrews' Starmates grudgingly allowed him to depart.
And for those of us that don't know, it explains later on in the personality section about his extensive modifcations to himself and why. He was a big hero in this book.
Still need the results from Marian battles, Dave. Time is running low.
I am having some buyer's remorse from this book. Yes, I know my boys bite the dust, and I am fine with it. It looks like they are making the Vipers the villains during the WoR. I am cool with that. But at least make them INTELLIGENT villains huh? The Vipers start off cold, calculating, and efficient. At the point I am at now, The Wolf Abjurement, the Vipers are acting like complete f&^%#$g morons. For example, look at Fate's quote. Pershaw pretty much tells his opponent, I HAVE A WEAPON!!!!, yet his opponent just grins like an idiot and walks right into a gunshot. Yeah.. Real good writing. Still reading, just starting to get a bad taste in my mouth from what right now seems to be lazy writing.
Quote from: Fatebringer on August 04, 2011, 04:13:19 AM
This book was such a page turner. I was lucky my boss was out and today was my easy day. I bought this about one and stayed at the office reading it til seven, then I finished up my stuff at work and went home :P
I've had buyers remorse from certain TRO's where I bought the thing to see my faction get less than a handful of new toys I wanted, or the JHS that didn't give us any real info, but kept the feel of the moment alive, here, there's none of that. It's brutal and it's beautiful.There were times when we were playing that I wanted to play it safe and keep my warships out of battles because they're my babies, but I felt the clanner in me say, "That's now why they were made" and I put them on the line. This book shows EXACTLY why clanners do what they do.
My personal favorite moment in this book was the Kael Pershaw trick.
Quote...Loremaster Pershaw, the only remaining Falcon warrior on Strana Mechty, challenged Andrews to single combat, "bringing nothing more than my flesh and bones, and the machines grafted to them." Andrews accepted; Reaving the old Falcon warrior would do much for his ris-tar status within the Vipers. As Pershaw prepared to meet the Viper commander, he ordered the rest of the enclave staff to leave with the departing Ghost Bears, with whom he had negotiated passage through Tseng.
Fully expecting an easy win, Star Colonel Andrews entered the Circle of Equals and was dead less than a minute later, the victim of a small laser pistol that had been grafted inside Pershaw's left arm. Because Pershaw had not violated the batchall or the Trial, Andrews' Starmates grudgingly allowed him to depart.
And for those of us that don't know, it explains later on in the personality section about his extensive modifcations to himself and why. He was a big hero in this book.
Well, this is BattleTech we're talking about. I wasn't expecting War & Peace when I bought the book... I found the book exceeded my expectations for a BT product and it was a pretty fun read (at least up to where I've got so far). I definitely agree with you that there are aspects where I was like "If I were writing the book, I would have done __________ instead" though - but I can't think of any recent BT product where I haven't had one or two of those moments, and to be fair at least I haven't run into any agregious offenses against language and history in this one (other than the magical appearance of an "i" on the end of Nikola Tesla's name) .
Dude I am a Free Worlder so I feel your pain.
But you know every faction is going to have to take stupid pill's from time to time.
Here's hoping its just as amusing when its the Fedrat and Lyran's turn.
Though I am surprised by how large the Fleet's still are at the end of the war of reaving.
The Clan's are maintaining the lead there over the Inner Sphere which is good.
True. Like I said, I have really liked a lot of what I have read right up to the Wolf Abjurement. I think the shift feels so abrupt is why I noticed it. I do have to say the Ravens scouring of Galedon, and the assaults that preceded it seems so out of place for the Ravens.
QuotePershaw pretty much tells his opponent, I HAVE A WEAPON!!!!
Actually, that's why I included the exerpt from Pershaw's bio. He's got so much cyberware, he could have been talking about the mechanics inside of him. I'm sure he when he said that he wasn't pointing to the laser, but pointing at him with a mechanical hand.
Quote from: GreyJaeger on August 05, 2011, 03:07:05 PM
True. Like I said, I have really liked a lot of what I have read right up to the Wolf Abjurement. I think the shift feels so abrupt is why I noticed it. I do have to say the Ravens scouring of Galedon, and the assaults that preceded it seems so out of place for the Ravens.
We knew about the Raven tantrum, and I can honestly say I've played my Ravens a bit more cool and calculating than that. We would have seriously participated in the Orbital Bombardment of Sudeten if I wasn't a new player being told, "Hey, you guys signed the Ares II Treaty!" and pushed me off the idea.
Quote from: GreyJaeger on August 05, 2011, 02:15:17 PM
I am having some buyer's remorse from this book. Yes, I know my boys bite the dust, and I am fine with it. It looks like they are making the Vipers the villains during the WoR. I am cool with that. But at least make them INTELLIGENT villains huh? The Vipers start off cold, calculating, and efficient. At the point I am at now, The Wolf Abjurement, the Vipers are acting like complete f&^%#$g morons. For example, look at Fate's quote. Pershaw pretty much tells his opponent, I HAVE A WEAPON!!!!, yet his opponent just grins like an idiot and walks right into a gunshot. Yeah.. Real good writing. Still reading, just starting to get a bad taste in my mouth from what right now seems to be lazy writing.
I think the whole Taint thing just pushed most Clanners into a bloodlust, but it especially did so with the Vipers.
Someone in the spoiler thread on CBT made an awesome comparisson to Andrews and Hitler (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,8764.msg203621.html#msg203621). :P
Does anyone know how long I have to wait before I can put this info up on the Raven Board? Or does that only apply to the CBT board?
Quote from: Lord Harlock on August 05, 2011, 05:41:52 PM
Quote from: GreyJaeger on August 05, 2011, 02:15:17 PM
I am having some buyer's remorse from this book. Yes, I know my boys bite the dust, and I am fine with it. It looks like they are making the Vipers the villains during the WoR. I am cool with that. But at least make them INTELLIGENT villains huh? The Vipers start off cold, calculating, and efficient. At the point I am at now, The Wolf Abjurement, the Vipers are acting like complete f&^%#$g morons. For example, look at Fate's quote. Pershaw pretty much tells his opponent, I HAVE A WEAPON!!!!, yet his opponent just grins like an idiot and walks right into a gunshot. Yeah.. Real good writing. Still reading, just starting to get a bad taste in my mouth from what right now seems to be lazy writing.
I think the whole Taint thing just pushed most Clanners into a bloodlust, but it especially did so with the Vipers.
Now you can see Grey, why I said you were playing the Vipers too timid :P The Ravens tell their sibkos that the Vipers are going to try to eat them in their sleep... the meanest thing you did was that major hit on Hellgate after we agreed to interclan cooperation. ;)
Quote from: Fatebringer on August 05, 2011, 06:31:52 PM
Someone in the spoiler thread on CBT made an awesome comparisson to Andrews and Hitler (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,8764.msg203621.html#msg203621). :P
Personally, I liked the Robespierre comparsion better since it is more appriopate to the insanity unleashed from the decisions made.
Quote from: chaosxtreme on August 05, 2011, 03:03:52 PM
Here's hoping its just as amusing when its the Fedrat and Lyran's turn.
Honestly, the Lyrans got their turn in
Bonfire of Worlds with the Wolf turnabout. Personally, I haven't been looking forward to whatever Loren Coleman has or had planned for the Suns since I was in a public chat with him after the release of either
Sword of Sedetion or
Fortress Republic. Over the years, it lead to me basically trying to make sure that Caleb could never come into existence in FGC 3062. Why was there a Tikonov Ball? To find someone to marry Yvonne to that would keep a Caleb from ever being born was the main objective.
But look at it this way, the Suns' fans generally liked Harrison Davion, and then the TPTB gave us Caleb after a bit of patricide/regicide. Most of us are pretty sure that it'll end in fire, a black hole, supernova, and Sun-Tzu rising from his grave to eat Julian Davion. New Avalon turned blacker than Luthien. Capellans making wind in the frozen halls of New Syrtis. The Robinson Battle Academy being torn down brick by brick . . . again. The Avalon Hussars reduced to two Urbanmechs. And at least three fans of some other factions saying that we got off easy. Etc. Even with all the devestation from the Jihad, we are pretty sure that any recovery from that will probably be ripped apart worse from years of worry about what is going to happen. :'( So anything that happens that is less than the complete collapses of the Suns, extermination of the Davion line, and doomsday is a win for us at this point since a lot of us are convinced that the absolute worse is going to happen.
Quote from: GreyJaeger on August 05, 2011, 02:15:17 PM
I am having some buyer's remorse from this book. Yes, I know my boys bite the dust, and I am fine with it. It looks like they are making the Vipers the villains during the WoR. I am cool with that. But at least make them INTELLIGENT villains huh? The Vipers start off cold, calculating, and efficient. At the point I am at now, The Wolf Abjurement, the Vipers are acting like complete f&^%#$g morons. For example, look at Fate's quote. Pershaw pretty much tells his opponent, I HAVE A WEAPON!!!!, yet his opponent just grins like an idiot and walks right into a gunshot. Yeah.. Real good writing. Still reading, just starting to get a bad taste in my mouth from what right now seems to be lazy writing.
Quote from: Fatebringer on August 04, 2011, 04:13:19 AM
This book was such a page turner. I was lucky my boss was out and today was my easy day. I bought this about one and stayed at the office reading it til seven, then I finished up my stuff at work and went home :P
I've had buyers remorse from certain TRO's where I bought the thing to see my faction get less than a handful of new toys I wanted, or the JHS that didn't give us any real info, but kept the feel of the moment alive, here, there's none of that. It's brutal and it's beautiful.There were times when we were playing that I wanted to play it safe and keep my warships out of battles because they're my babies, but I felt the clanner in me say, "That's now why they were made" and I put them on the line. This book shows EXACTLY why clanners do what they do.
My personal favorite moment in this book was the Kael Pershaw trick.
Quote...Loremaster Pershaw, the only remaining Falcon warrior on Strana Mechty, challenged Andrews to single combat, "bringing nothing more than my flesh and bones, and the machines grafted to them." Andrews accepted; Reaving the old Falcon warrior would do much for his ris-tar status within the Vipers. As Pershaw prepared to meet the Viper commander, he ordered the rest of the enclave staff to leave with the departing Ghost Bears, with whom he had negotiated passage through Tseng.
Fully expecting an easy win, Star Colonel Andrews entered the Circle of Equals and was dead less than a minute later, the victim of a small laser pistol that had been grafted inside Pershaw's left arm. Because Pershaw had not violated the batchall or the Trial, Andrews' Starmates grudgingly allowed him to depart.
And for those of us that don't know, it explains later on in the personality section about his extensive modifcations to himself and why. He was a big hero in this book.
Stupid-pills and stupid-juice are how you can TELL who the 'villains' are in the CBT universe, which is why, unlike some speculations, I don't think we'll be seeing it afflicted upon the Davions and the Steiners to any serious degree, now that we've had the FedCom civil war storyline-the Steel Vipers are minor enough players that the Devs don't have a problem with using them up as the cardboard baddies of the week.
doing now the open threads in Marians, assuming where there was no answer, there was only Militia. Although all that can be changed if there was more, of course. Illyria might be having more troops. Or Logan Prime.
Okay, finished reading the WoR, and overall, I am impressed. My main complaints was still the Wolf Abjurement, the Wolf Stand at Kerensky's Blood Chapel. It just felt so contrived.
The Vipers are gone, but they went down like a Boss!! ;D
So, Cats are about to be done, although I still need the results from the Illyria Hex and Logan Prime as well as Pompey. :(
Also, a question to Allied/Hostile Movement through several factions: would there be needed a separate thread for ALL traversed hexes? If so, it would be just madness. Example: force moves through CIH territory 1, then there is a contested Hex, then there is a Star Adder Hex, for example. How is that done? 3 separate threads? Please not.
Seriously they did
"I call for the annihilation of Clan Steel Viper's"
*Viper IlKhan calmly pulls out a pistol and shoots the Adder Khan in. the. face.*
Quote from: Marlin on August 06, 2011, 07:28:12 AM
doing now the open threads in Marians, assuming where there was no answer, there was only Militia. Although all that can be changed if there was more, of course. Illyria might be having more troops. Or Logan Prime.
Now that I'm back in the US for a bit, I'll scan through my forces to help clean up those threads. I'll check each planet, but I don't think "militia" would have attempted to stand up to Clan invaders in the absence of the Legion. Can someone point out where I can find the militia rules? Thanks.
Quote from: GI Journalist on August 07, 2011, 11:20:57 AM
Quote from: Marlin on August 06, 2011, 07:28:12 AM
doing now the open threads in Marians, assuming where there was no answer, there was only Militia. Although all that can be changed if there was more, of course. Illyria might be having more troops. Or Logan Prime.
Now that I'm back in the US for a bit, I'll scan through my forces to help clean up those threads. I'll check each planet, but I don't think "militia" would have attempted to stand up to Clan invaders in the absence of the Legion. Can someone point out where I can find the militia rules? Thanks.
Militia can mean two different things depending on what their game mechanical status is.
- If the militia is actually on your orders sheet; that is to say they have a line-item, FP value, etc, then the distinction is purely a fluff one. They operate exactly like normal units
- However, if you have no units from your orders sheet on a planet, you can 'call up' 1.0 FP of free militia. In the past these had to be green, non-'Mech troops, but I believe that stance has been softened to conform with Canon and they are now just 1.0 FP of whatever you want (within reason) - DR6 can correct me if I am in error on that point. Free Militia can't move (they have the Static movement type), can't use Guerilla Warfare, and go away at the end of the turn (of course you can call them up again next turn if you need to).
- Fun fact: Planets aren't the only things that get free militia if they have no ground forces assigned. If a Warship is boarded, it gets 1.0 FP of "Ship's Militia" to aid in its defense.
A bit of history:
Back in the day, raids were mostly a way of getting a bit of MM fun in with out having to have a war, and often times a raid would go to a world that didn't have other defences. Millita was added so that you could always have some defense against a raid, and you could always do some MM if you wanted, rather than just have a walk over.
Later on, millita instituted a sort of minimum requirement to take a world. You couldn't just go in with .25 FP (the minimum trackable amount, though in theroy you might have been able to claim "0 FP" of foot infantry, since they had no value but were real trackable units) or what ever and just take a world. You had to send enough to beat 1 FP, what ever that means to you (3 FP was standard, but I often used 2).
As Dave says, the resualt and idea is that a world is never really defenceless. In the BT universe (or even the real world) there's always something. Might be a bunch of farmers with their hunting rifles, might be police or SWAT units giving it the old collage try. Might be proper millitary units. But, its not nothing.
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on August 07, 2011, 04:46:48 PM
A bit of history:
Back in the day, raids were mostly a way of getting a bit of MM fun in with out having to have a war, and often times a raid would go to a world that didn't have other defences. Millita was added so that you could always have some defense against a raid, and you could always do some MM if you wanted, rather than just have a walk over.
Later on, millita instituted a sort of minimum requirement to take a world. You couldn't just go in with .25 FP (the minimum trackable amount, though in theroy you might have been able to claim "0 FP" of foot infantry, since they had no value but were real trackable units) or what ever and just take a world. You had to send enough to beat 1 FP, what ever that means to you (3 FP was standard, but I often used 2).
As Dave says, the resualt and idea is that a world is never really defenceless. In the BT universe (or even the real world) there's always something. Might be a bunch of farmers with their hunting rifles, might be police or SWAT units giving it the old collage try. Might be proper millitary units. But, its not nothing.
I remember in the good old days when I got yelled at by the GMs for deciding that my 1 FP of free militia was a regiment of light vehicles supported by mechanized infantry.
Ironically, the smackdown came not with relation to FRR (who had been describing planetary Home Guard forces in multi-regiment strength in their fluff and even in simple rez fights for months by this point) but when I was proxying for Holt. The AFFS player on the other side took disproportionate losses (he had gone in with a 'Mech regiment of some sort and took a couple of FP of damage) and was scandalized that he didn't just roll over the local militz.
Hahaha it was Saladins, a swarm of them.
Light armor can do a lot of good if you're clever about it. I remember back in the old 67 game, Ghost Bear kicked the crap out of someone (and not just some sucker, but a player of known skill as I recall) with some green armor, and really messed some conquest plans up.
Oh yeah, MM had a serious impact. I remember Deathray slaying a superior Bear force with his Wolves multiple times.
That were the days the Wolves were fightin'.
Okay, so what changed?
The players all moved to other factions.
Its something I think we've seen again and again. A small faction with an active and vigorious player (the MH under GWA, for example, or even Randis under Baulder, or really most any periphery faction now that I think about it, though there are surely others) can do really wounderous things, while a faction that hasn't got any players, or has ones that are problematic (the Cobras, the Mandrills, the Wolves the LA) can easily get in a bad way no matter its paper strength.
Which perhaps touches on something going on in another thread, but we can speak of that in that thread or not.
Of course, back in the 3067 game, it was all even BV games, no matter the number of troops involved, so it was entirely about MM skill, and very little about stratigy (it was important to get your goot units to the fight so you could put better pilots and better tech on the field, but there was no real tracking of MP, so it was relitilvely easy to do) and good MMers (which there were many of that arn't still with the game) could make a huge diference.
There are far too few players is the answer and those that are around dont have the time or inclination to fight MM. I have almost no time anymore. At least we got the Niflsmeet in. And that was planned well ahead.
Both must agree to MM or it wont happen.
The mentioning of "but there was no real tracking of MP" confuses me. I've always tracked mine, even when I was working the FS and we had so little of it. I guess that would explain why the FS used to have enough to sell to the SLDF when I didn't have enough to move our own units. Of course, it could have been because I was trying to formulate a battle plan by moving mass units to strongpoint locations and we'd lost about half the fleet. :P, but still. I think it would be hugely unfair for people not to track their MP, just like it would be unfair for unit to not track ammunition in a real game. Limited resources are supposed to be an equalizer for those that have them.
The problem really comes when we have droughts of activity. We have enough players right now to keep the game going, one of the things that killed the FP3090 game was that two of our major players all of a sudden went silent for weeks. GM extensions can only help so much.
He talked about the game before this one, dude. ;)
Yeah, back in FGC III, we didn't track anything. Truely. Ghost Bear ran it the way you might run a small personal campaign, with everthing being worked out on more or less a case basis. Its little supprise in hind sight that such a large game (I don't think we've ever had more players) that it drove him over the edge to do it, and that future games have had ever more rules.
Folks:
I have posted a rather lengthy poll in the Market Research section. I hope you will all take the time to register your opinions. Please be totally honest... if you want to go on at more length on any topic related to the subject of the poll, please feel free to post your opinion as a reply in that thread.
Read the poll carefully before you answer. I missed a box I should've checked.
so apparently i was exhausted last night and didn't get the reports out. Ooops! doing it right now
No worries Daemon. Count the numbers of EX GMs and you know what you're up to. :)
Looks like we might have saved the FGC 3010 game ;) Lots of support showed up after the GM's declared it over.
and somewhere in there, we reached 25K posts here on Intelser :)
I'm sorry, but 3010 is dead. If it takes the game closing to make the community go active, there is no coming back. We will see maybe 3 turns of good activity before it crashes again
I have to agree with DK - threat of loss is never a long-term motivator, especially in gaming. Once sufficient activity has occured to prevent the immediate threat, motivation for continued activity has also been removed by proxy and you return to a state of stagnation. Eventually, you either end up in an equilibrium of punctuated stagnation or experience dissolution by authoritative fiat in order to finally put everything out of its misery.
Well, I'm not sure it was so much the players as it was the GM's ready to call it. We were actually doing pretty good at moving stuff along in-game. It was mainly the FS faction that was having issues and several people stepped up to offer assistance plus there are more new players.
Currently the status of the game is "On Hiatus" as they work thru some system issues, but that doesn't necessarily mean the game is officially back yet :P So take that for what it's worth :P
Quite. I think in the FS can get a bit of help, and there do seem to be people who can step up, then there's no reason the game can't go on.
That said, a chance to learn some lessons and reballance things and get the FS team a chance to rethink its plans and some of the mistakes I've made might not be all together all that bad.
I have told them I will take the Fed Sun's.
As this is the third turn of the restart, will there be a free R&D roll for each faction/clan as per the rules?
I was pretty sure last turn was the free roll if we were keeping with the every three turns. If you paid, you should get a roll this turn for your money :P
I had never kept track of the free rolls, but I know DR's plan was to continue counting from the original turn count. I'm not going to do that, so if you got a free roll before turn 3, thats your Turn 3 free roll. If you didn't get a free roll in turns 1-3, you'll get it in T4, and we'll be using the current turn counter from now on(so 3, 6, 9, 12, ect).
Roger that, ND and CBS have had their rolls and are paying this turn.
Just not as active as I was last turn.
What are the Star Adders going to do this turn? And after?
Quote from: Marlin on August 14, 2011, 11:07:01 AM
What are the Star Adders going to do this turn? And after?
I think they're still fighting Lyrans.
oH, and Marlin?
There's a raid you need to respond to-they failed their transit roll, so if you have fighters in the Phelan system, you might be able to intercept them before they land.
Also: if you were hiding anything in the cupboard for Mainstreet, now would be a GREAT time to trot it out.
You are pretty clear from what I can see.
Also, I asked for a reason. No doubt the places they are attacked in they will fight.
Why the split in IS and Clan worlds? All Adder Worlds should be Clan.
yeah that was just me not paying attention is all, putting the adder attacks in the IS section
Quote from: Cannonshop on August 14, 2011, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: Marlin on August 14, 2011, 11:07:01 AM
What are the Star Adders going to do this turn? And after?
I think they're still fighting Lyrans.
I think he meant... where are the Star Adder counterattacks in the form of Trials of Possessions initiated by CSA forces to get their worlds back. All we have seen so far is LA(CJF) ToPs.
For the record, this is the absolute LAST time I will discuss the motives behind the actions of a GM-run faction. So don't bother asking again, and I'm a little annoyed this is being asked in the first place.
The CSA players decided to concentrate their counter attack on Tharkad, but were stopped at Vorzel last turn, and the blockade is in place still. I'm going foreward with the 'break through' plan, however the Lyrans have a bigger fleet and knew exactly where the enemy would be.
I hope that everyone is satisfied, and if not, that's unfortunate, because as I said- its the last time the actions of the GM factions are explained.
Well, I made a decision. When the fun is gone, it's time to move on, right?
After this turn I will leave the game. I dragged it out long enough.
I will try to post the CIH threads this week and adress the Invasions too, but the most important thing had to be said. Thanks to all that made it enjoyable. I do not take this step lightly as I have been with the game since its start (5, 6 years ago? :o) and mostly with my 3rd Clan of choice which I became to love very much.
Thanks for the RP, MM and play. No doubt I am still gonna watch from afar. From time to time. Will try to leave as clean as possible with sheets and stuff.
Sorry to hear your leaving Marlin. Was fun to play with you. Maybe we can do more warship battles at some point. You know how to find me.
I've got a couple more things to post against the SC's, then I guess it'll be done-that's everyone the UIW has a border with that isn't a GM faction. :-[
Quote from: Marlin on August 15, 2011, 05:52:57 PM
Well, I made a decision. When the fun is gone, it's time to move on, right?
After this turn I will leave the game. I dragged it out long enough.
I will try to post the CIH threads this week and adress the Invasions too, but the most important thing had to be said. Thanks to all that made it enjoyable. I do not take this step lightly as I have been with the game since its start (5, 6 years ago? :o) and mostly with my 3rd Clan of choice which I became to love very much.
Thanks for the RP, MM and play. No doubt I am still gonna watch from afar. From time to time. Will try to leave as clean as possible with sheets and stuff.
I'm sorry to see you going Marlin :(
Will you still be participating in the D&D game?
Guys, I posted some questions in the NPC Factions thread. I'd love to get your opinions.
Hey, Fatebringer?
The GC did rule it's legal to Trial against the UIW, and demonstrated past policies DO indicate they'll accept trials for resources...means your raiders do not HAVE to run off just because they blew their insertion/transit.
Gotcha. Don't want to change what's done already.
Quote from: Fatebringer on August 16, 2011, 06:22:32 AM
Gotcha. Don't want to change what's done already.
no worries, I just didn't know if you were aware of that historical tidbit.
Hi folks, I did a little housecleaning today as the board was getting pretty cluttered. Old, inactive, or out of date threads were moved to the FGC Archive (formerly known as the FGC 62 boards). The faction VIP lists have been moved to the faction roleplaying area.
Quote from: Cannonshop on August 16, 2011, 06:58:47 AM
Quote from: Fatebringer on August 16, 2011, 06:22:32 AM
Gotcha. Don't want to change what's done already.
no worries, I just didn't know if you were aware of that historical tidbit.
I remembered something about that. It was so long ago and it wasn't very relevant to me at the time. The Blood Spirits had even less reason to have contact with the UIW until the time jump when we decided to do the Raids / Trails to get the new mobile units experience.
Dude, of course I will play my Dwarf! What do you think I made him for? Thats gonna be awesome. :D And I would have some time for it too.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on August 16, 2011, 01:37:25 AM
Quote from: Marlin on August 15, 2011, 05:52:57 PM
Well, I made a decision. When the fun is gone, it's time to move on, right?
After this turn I will leave the game. I dragged it out long enough.
I will try to post the CIH threads this week and adress the Invasions too, but the most important thing had to be said. Thanks to all that made it enjoyable. I do not take this step lightly as I have been with the game since its start (5, 6 years ago? :o) and mostly with my 3rd Clan of choice which I became to love very much.
Thanks for the RP, MM and play. No doubt I am still gonna watch from afar. From time to time. Will try to leave as clean as possible with sheets and stuff.
I'm sorry to see you going Marlin :(
Will you still be participating in the D&D game?
Looking at the mass number of threads... my will to post in each is going away like ...
I will point out though, that in each instance, there would be a hail and offering of a Trial. Perhaps with a 1 FP bid as well.
Any denial by the Falcons would be sent to the GC of course. Not that the CIH expect much of it.
Will post the attack threads of CIH tomorrow. I guess.
does that mean you are sticking with the game?
No, but I said I would try to do a clear cut.. stupid me. Perhaps I should not do anything at all.. is that ok? (Because I am not really inclined to. :P)
If you'd rather not do anything at all, I won't hold it against you. Just tell me one way or another.
Lets leave it then. Ok?
Good night.
Okay, I have (mostly) done the work on the combat threads, closing them out in the absence of an opponent. Militia forces on two worlds beat the tar out of raiding forces five times their size, forcing retreats and picking up, in one case, more in salvage than they started with.
New guy's got some hot dice. Lots of successful pirate insertions ;) I hope you save up some luck for the ground combat ;)
me too
rolls almost as good as me ;)
He's the Pirate (YAR!)
Your the crit guy.
This is true
LOL I got to use the phrase "pinko" in an in-character post.
Anyone know where the NPC lists went?
Quote from: Fatebringer on August 24, 2011, 03:07:32 PM
Anyone know where the NPC lists went?
They are in the faction RP area now.
Gotcha :)
I hope I'm doing Phillip some justice for Marlin, he's got a whole case of bitch puddin!
LOL, I'm staying out of these TC vs MoC threads from here on out :P I've lost track of what their doing and as long as they agree to an outcome, it's none of my business, I'm not a GM :P
lol sorry just tring to get it going
Honestly, Dave I just read the news post from Fox Holo. The Olive Branch Foundation! ;D
Quote from: Raginar on August 24, 2011, 10:17:38 PM
lol sorry just tring to get it going
I gotcha. Not trying to put anyone down. I was trying to help out there :)
The Primus has been uninvited to our little party since they have no fleet control :P
Quote from: Fatebringer on August 25, 2011, 06:13:39 PM
The Primus has been uninvited to our little party since they have no fleet control :P
But...where are you going to get the chorus line of guys in white robes singing "My name is Mud", or "Tommy the Cat"?
TH prisoners, just like everyone else.
U mad, FWL?
Im about to go Gerald Marik
Does the outage affect any other communications besides the chatterweb?
Quote from: Fatebringer on August 31, 2011, 02:25:18 PM
Does the outage affect any other communications besides the chatterweb?
No, the HPG network is up and running
Roger that, New Clan Grand Council thread posted then ;) Get this Grand Loremaste Business finished. We had some good RP out of it. Diana would have remained Laurie's definative choice had she not risen to Phillip's bait :P As is, Phillip is a no go. Even before I took him over, his original debates were very poorly worded and easily rebuffed.
Should we set up a voting thread for the Grand Loremaster?
The Candidates are...
Diana Pryde
Klaus Harper
Laurie Tseng
Philippe Lienet
Grr, having issues connecting to CBT :(
Lets do it.
All combat threads should be closed out. Please advise if we have missed any.
If you haven't read this post yet, please do so now. It may save your navy from destruction.
http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=3243.msg26775#msg26775 (http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=3243.msg26775#msg26775)
...and what kind of madness would you do, for YOUR family's sake?
not be born cappellan barring that defect to the Free Worlds.
Quoteprepare to learn your place in the Way of the Clan's!
SEYLA!!!
Heads up, the Flurries have Carnivores, I would like to see their performace in MM if you decide to play one out.
Quote from: Marlin on September 08, 2011, 05:36:45 PM
Heads up, the Flurries have Carnivores, I would like to see their performace in MM if you decide to play one out.
Oooh thank you for reminding me.
Wellp...having a navy was fun while it lasted, and boyoboy, I spent off a HUGE amount. I guess the only rationale for it, is that when you're facing the entire foot-ball team and they're Bill Cosby's "Hoffstra" to your 90 pound library geek, the only move you have left, is to try and kick the biggest linebacker's nutsack into orbit.
LOL, if I didn't turn around a good size of the fleet to go challenge the Hellions, I'd have double the FP of what they had there :P Hellgate Naval Star (All of my Kurita Designs) and the Lum's Flying Tigers were en route before the call was made. :P
por que?
Cuase I feel that although they were lucky against the Falcons the first time because they had managable numbers, the Falcons will come back with their usual, We bid 2, but are actually bidding 50 manner and pwn the Hellions once they outmass them significantly, and I don't want those worlds going over to these Lyran Falcons :P, Hell I'd rather see the Vipers get them.
They didn't use nukes on Warships. :P Yet...
Ah quite understandable.
We await your response at Hellgate. ;-) If your taking the prize of the station I expect to get something for my trouble. ;-)
I love arrogant bastards :) They leave openings that are easily exploitable. AND I have a nice political twist in there too :)
I should also like to declare now that Unplanned Reinforcement orders are being issued now for I suspect you wouldn't have balls like this if you didn't have me outgunned ;)
Just for clarification: What's the TN for a survival check? I can't find it in the rules...
5 or less. Its in the warship survival rule's not the nuke rules.
The rules were stashed away in the "Rules Discussion" Thread.
Warship Survival Info (http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=2643.msg21909#msg21909)
So it's 5 or more-since the target makes the check.
Quote from: Cannonshop on September 09, 2011, 05:49:34 PM
So it's 5 or more-since the target makes the check.
2-5 : Ship Destroyed
6-12: Ship Survives
Things will not be so easy for you in THIS rebellion, Chaos :P
Oh they won't be for the rebel's that is as I have said before "Oh shit it's Omar RUUUUNNN!!!!"
;D
QuoteFWLS Golden Hind 1 FP
"Does
Wayne Brady the REAL Golden Hind have to choke a bitch?
Golden Hind a Greek Mythological creature with poisonous blood that can slay God's.
Dominion? I think not. This is Greek Mythology sirrah a province of the Free Worlds. Go name a ship for some 8 legged bestiality/horse ridden by Odin.
And while your's may be bigger, mine's got stealth bitch. You can't find her to choke her. 8)
.... so does mine, does yours have nukes? ;)
Well, the McKenna Curse is confirmed as alive and well in 3091.
And of course, not salvageable. 3 Mckennas down and out so far. :P 4 if you count Lynn ;)
It's the curse alrighty.
but cheer up, at least you've got reserves and this isn't happening over one of YOUR main worlds.
Yeah never forget wobbie Andurien's that the Free Worlds League Navy did this to you. This is what happen's. You mess with the Eagle you get the Talon's. What what! ;D
I'm looking and I realize, the Vipers are the Reavers from Firefly XD
heh wait are you implying theat our gene's are damaged by radiation? ;-)
No, the Scientists put something in the air on New Kent... tried to weed out the aggression. That's what the Mandrils were REALLY doing ;)
I've a question... Why is this farce of a Star Adder being allowed to continue? Why don't you just go ahead and wipe the entire CSA touman and give the worlds to the Lyrans and their mates? Everyone knows what the outcome will be anyway, especially with the Adders being played as potplants... lined up in nice little rows to give easy kills for the Lyran GMs.
What mate's do the Lyran's have?
Prior to becoming a GM faction (due to nobody taking them I might add).
The Lyran's had thoroughly pissed off all their neighbours.
Its not the Vipers the Vipers HIT everyone. We hit the Lyrans, we hit the Hellions, we hit the UIW, we hit the Dominion, we hit the Diamond Sharks hell if your within 5-10 hex's of a Viper world you got hit.
Its not the Dominion read the RP that has been posted and it is all about war with the Lyrans whom I might add the dominion DID attack this turn.
Hellion's? Marlin wasn't having fun anymore and he quit. It is unfortunate but at least his attacks on the Lyrans are still occurring.
So Parm straight out. You got a beef with how the GM Lyrans are being run I want to hear it. But I want to know what mate's you are talking about. Enlighten me.
Because making sure the Lyran's were friendless and isolated has been (and still is) a Free Worlds diplomatic goal. Outside of the UIW which has not attacked the Star Adder's the LyrCom does not have friends that I am aware of inchar.
So enlighten me.
I think I can answer the question about why LC vs. CSA is being played out instead of, say, just posting a news article saying "LC defeats CSA, huzzah!"
There are a couple of reasons for this. First, we want the LC to take damage and to run the risk of getting strategic reverses (even if the Adders' deployments create a situation where that is only really likely to come from critical events). Secondly, we want to give the option for player involvement - a GM-directed "announced outcome" takes away the players' abilities to rally to the defense of the Adders... or for that matter to stab the Adders in the back and steal their land.
As to the ease or lack thereof that the LC is having fighting the Adders (as opposed to, say, the Hellions), I have to refer those questions to the retired Star Adder players. The GM team is playing their defense using the resources left to us when those players left, and early on we decided not to fiat in additional forces for either side of the conflict.
Rally to their defense?
Does not compute. The C-G is related by blood to the sitting Adder Khan and it has NEVER even occurred to me to ride to his rescue.
Mind you we will stand receptive to any asylum requests and if he is interested in becoming another one of our loyal provincials there is always room in Parliament.
But assistance? meh.
Ask anyone the FWL only rides to the rescue when we are PAID to do it.
Speaking in why we are rolling these out, check out the Tangua thread. That's the sort of thing that consulting the dice gods adds to the game.
((Just an FYI, Yamamoto is a Japanese name, kinda the opposite of what you would find in a Chinese Leadership like the CC, good for the DC sure, but not on Sian. Chinese names are usually short. Chu, Jung, Zang, etc.))
Aff. The New Dominion is certain that the Lyrans will come for them one day so, we have taken the Hellion territory to prevent it from going to the Lyran Falcons. Now, if they come for it, they're taking on the New Dominion, who on top of having a pretty kick butt military of their own, have friends and know how to make allegiences. ;)
Vipers, they the Falcons and the Ravens, but I'm fairly sure if they see the Chalcas way the Lyrans go about things, and the Falcons neglect to rectify their leash holding masters, they will side with the most Clanner-like offensive. Especially if they get good isorla out of it ;)
Quote from: Fatebringer on September 15, 2011, 06:39:38 PM
Aff. The New Dominion is certain that the Lyrans will come for them one day so, we have taken the Hellion territory to prevent it from going to the Lyran Falcons. Now, if they come for it, they're taking on the New Dominion, who on top of having a pretty kick butt military of their own, have friends and know how to make allegiences. ;)
Vipers, they the Falcons and the Ravens, but I'm fairly sure if they see the Chalcas way the Lyrans go about things, and the Falcons neglect to rectify their leash holding masters, they will side with the most Clanner-like offensive. Especially if they get good isorla out of it ;)
And think: the Falcons handed the ND a HUGE propoganda boost at Kowloon.
There were Falcon-owned facilities there and those were outright abandoned
To the not-named, without a fight.
Quote from: Fatebringer on September 15, 2011, 06:31:21 PM
((Just an FYI, Yamamoto is a Japanese name, kinda the opposite of what you would find in a Chinese Leadership like the CC, good for the DC sure, but not on Sian. Chinese names are usually short. Chu, Jung, Zang, etc.))
Far be it for me to be contrary, but a lot of the warrior houses are distinctly Japanese (Daidachi, etc...) so a Japanese-descended Cappie isn't at all hard to swallow, especially since Sun Tzu's rabid sinoficiation program didn't get nearly as far as it did in Canon.
What Dave said.
Hiruitsu, Kamata?
etc
I don't know, I just want to see where it goes, so whatever Xantophes and Holt agree to do, with whatever weird names they choose to use, is fine with me-I'll just amend the sheet from the results, and let the new guy make the decisions, announcements, and (now that Kali is gone) Roleplay.
It would be amusing as all hell if somehow, Xantophes, having gotten 'convinced' to trial, were to wipe the ground with the Sharks.
That would make me laugh, very, very, hard.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on September 15, 2011, 06:48:26 PM
Quote from: Fatebringer on September 15, 2011, 06:31:21 PM
((Just an FYI, Yamamoto is a Japanese name, kinda the opposite of what you would find in a Chinese Leadership like the CC, good for the DC sure, but not on Sian. Chinese names are usually short. Chu, Jung, Zang, etc.))
Far be it for me to be contrary, but a lot of the warrior houses are distinctly Japanese (Daidachi, etc...) so a Japanese-descended Cappie isn't at all hard to swallow, especially since Sun Tzu's rabid sinoficiation program didn't get nearly as far as it did in Canon.
But the Hard Line Chinese wouldn't want that to happen. Lest they fall prey to the opinion that their culture is subpar to anyone. :P There were 4 non Liao Chancellors, Aris, Baxter, Quinn, Salinder...
From now on, any time a GM Faction is engaged in combat, the pertinent forces will be posted, and if someone wants to play the games, just say so in the thread. So all those CJF v CIH/CSA fights where you see line-item forces listed, are open, but the games need to be approved by me or Dave. Somerset for example, should feature a number of PWS and Assault droppers on the CJF side because of their FP advantage, even though they are outnumbered in terms of warships. An alternate route might be to drop the monolith and the Vincents from the fight, and roll those in with the ASF SimRes, let the big ships duke it out.
Dream Trance - Butterfly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbNqYDM2tZE#)
pertient to the New Samarkand thread?
Wow, more impressive valor on the part of the Hellions in the face of Falcon doomstacks. Check out Morges and Chapultepec.
That was epic :)
Okay, I'm sure it's gotten around now, so I might as well make it publicly known...
Thursday, I fell down the stairs at work, flat on my back, hard enough to crack a thoracic vertebra. As a result, I don't have to worry about mandatory overtime for a while, and the doctors gave me a prescription for Vicodin. I was lucky enough NOT to end up with nerve damage, neck damage, or a broken open head (though I suppose they'll be hammering the dent out of the beam above the stairs that I hit, causing the whole event.)
I guess the pills work-it only hurts a little bit, instead of a lot, but I expect I'm a lot LESS smart on this shit, than I would be without it. Nevertheless, I committed to probably the biggest MA scenario I'll get to play with my own faction, and it's one with a very low chance of success for me.
Put me in coach, I'm ready to play...
Dave B and I arranged to play this out starting sometime between 1830 PST and 1900 PST. I don't know the server addy yet, but I'm hoping that even stoned on pain meds (I react rather strongly to them, and always have) I can make a good showing.
Snap, man. Good that it was not worse. Hope you recover soon, dude.
Naval BAttle of Kowloon is delayed until Sunday (tomorrow) at 1400 Pacific Standard Time-we got a late start tonight, had loading problems (solved!), some organizational issues (Thanks for the fix, Dave), and it's a big, complex fight, so we didn't get very far before people started falling out. (Vicodin, Curse Ye!!)
Hopefully the save will WORK and it won't be all screwed up requiring a full restart tomorrow.
as it is, I'm fuzzed out on painkiller, so it's off to bed for me too.
If I don't get specific orders from the GM staff,or Xantophes, at 0100 hours PST on Tuesday of this week, I'm sending Holt the Cappie's most recent orders sheet. as far as I am concerned, he won the trial.
Quote from: Cannonshop on September 19, 2011, 05:08:22 AM
If I don't get specific orders from the GM staff,or Xantophes, at 0100 hours PST on Tuesday of this week, I'm sending Holt the Cappie's most recent orders sheet. as far as I am concerned, he won the trial.
CS, Xanto, Holt, please standby before handing over any classified materials. The GM team needs to do some dice rolls to verify if there are any complications with the holdover. We will try to get you an answer before Tuesday midnight, but if you don't hear from us, give us a little more time.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on September 19, 2011, 06:07:06 AM
Quote from: Cannonshop on September 19, 2011, 05:08:22 AM
If I don't get specific orders from the GM staff,or Xantophes, at 0100 hours PST on Tuesday of this week, I'm sending Holt the Cappie's most recent orders sheet. as far as I am concerned, he won the trial.
CS, Xanto, Holt, please standby before handing over any classified materials. The GM team needs to do some dice rolls to verify if there are any complications with the holdover. We will try to get you an answer before Tuesday midnight, but if you don't hear from us, give us a little more time.
hey, I just want to make sure I'm being fair with the other players, that's the only reason I committed to a deadline-because that way Holt would know that I'm not going to jerk him around, and Xantophes would know I'm not jerking him around. I'll comply with any deadline you assign to this affair.
FYI, Star League faction leaders, there is a new voting thread open. Please note that this is an emergency vote and only seated representatives were notified. Factions currently petitioning for membership, including those who have been voted in but have not seated a representative yet, were not given notice of the vote.
I didnt mean to cause quite the stir here i just played it out how i thought best. it was a no win situation to begin with and when your leader nukes herself you kinda stumble thru things as best you can. I found it to be interesting that the person with the upper hand was willing to make the fight even in order to save lives not alot of leaders take that risk.
Quote from: Xantophes on September 19, 2011, 05:47:37 PM
I didnt mean to cause quite the stir here i just played it out how i thought best. it was a no win situation to begin with and when your leader nukes herself you kinda stumble thru things as best you can. I found it to be interesting that the person with the upper hand was willing to make the fight even in order to save lives not alot of leaders take that risk.
Xanto, its all good. Were the events that played out this turn in the Capellan Confederation unprecedented? Sure. However, FGC is fundamentally a player-driven game, and that means that sometimes unexpected things happen. As you are probably already starting to see in the CC threads, there are going to be some complications, but please don't take that for Official GM Displeasure (tm) or anything like that - we're just doing our due dilligence to ensure an adequate level of 'crunch' to the scenario.
There is one hex left that i forgot to post, can i still post it?
Quote from: Holt on September 19, 2011, 06:23:21 PM
There is one hex left that i forgot to post, can i still post it?
Unless it was hung up by a movement request (which I don't believe is the case here) I'm afraid the deadline for opening new threads has passed. Sorry for the inconvenience.
You are not sorry and you know it!
Quick FYI to everyone: I have already received several inquiries about the status of Capellan mercenary commands. The short answer is: yes, several Capellan mercenary commands will be up for contract effective next turn.
The long answer is: many mercenary commands will be up for contract renewal next turn. It has come to my attention that almost all of the mercenaries in the IS, with a few exceptions (like the Snords and other than were picked up after their original owner defaulted) are still operating under no-bid, minimum rate contracts dating back to before turn 20. The GM team will be providing more information about this as the turn progresses, but basically we will be giving the player base an opportunity to shake up the current mercenary contracts.
At this time please do not send the GM team explicit contract offers for the Big MAC or other Capellan commands, as we won't be able to respond to them until the exact mechanics for awarding contracts are finalized.
That's cool.
Muah ha ha, I think an "Independant contractor" will be looking for some deals. ;)
When can we expect a decision to be made if we can issue orders to units in the homeworlds?
decision has already been made, you'll be finiding out before the end of the turn what the status is of units in the homeworlds.
K
If anyone's wondering what's up with the battle damage assessment for the six small LC vs. CSA trials, here's what Chaos and I did.
Each planet was decided by a one on one 'Mech duel. We each took three Lyran 'mechs and three CSA 'mechs. The 1.5 FP forces were given a Clan heavy, the 1.0 forces got an IS tech heavy. Since this was highly abstract, we pretty much made all units open for use, hence some of the oddball choices.
The IHGR Barghest, BTW is pretty cool. Too bad that Night Gyr had giant brass balls and really good luck and took five (five!) IHGR slugs and heaven only knows how many capped LPPCs without missing a beat.
The big battle at Kowloon was so epic, it crashed the server after each turn. note to self:
Don't load 74 smallcraft again. Movement took FOREVER.
Other lessons learned:
AAM and other advanced external fighter ordinance don't work with Squadrons in V.35.24-the system won't let them, not even when you load them onto the airframes BEFORE loading them into the Squadron (or after, for that matter). They DO work, if you leave the fighter separate, but that kind of destroys the squadron 'capability', and you can't use the Vectored (i.e. realistic and quicker) movement system with squadrons in that version.
Other lessons: if the other side has a big, integrated, point-defense net, your battletaxis won't last the fire phase once they're close enough to be useful, it's almost not worth it.
This means you REALLY want lots of PD if you're going to fight a fleet action. lots of it.
Interdictors are nice...very nice... too damn tough to one-shot, and they eat fighters, smallcraft, and other dropships for breakfast.
the fleet battle over the weekend was fun, in spite of everything. We gave up after five turns, so the final outcome is going to be handled by GM staff to the benefit of the sanity of all (and by mutual agreement-it took over an hour to complete each turn, with more than half of that being just movement thanks to the vast horde of taxis and escorts on the Kowloon side-the other half of the overlong turn being the fire-phase from the WoB/TH/whoeverthehelltheyare fleet. average firing time for them using simultaneous fire was about 45 minutes longer than the defending side!)
Quoteaverage firing time for them using simultaneous fire was about 45 minutes longer than the defending side!)
Yeah, that integrated AAA system you were talking about... I can't complain about the results, but actually directing all the fire was a pretty daunting task.
I miss the old MegaAero game, where it was a seperate game entirely and you could create a floatilla to fire as one group :P If we had that option, we wouldn't have to lose the realism of having CAPs. :P
true true
Strange things are afoot in the UIW...interesting fight.
Kind of a shame that only NPC Mercs get a Dragoons rating, while the state-sponsored ones don't. It would make an interesting basis of comparison between success rates, faithfulness to contract, and relative effectiveness.
Well ya can't have everything...
But but....if I can't have everything how am I supposed to lord my inherent superiority over the commoners! Guards off with his head!
Quote from: Dave Baughman on September 15, 2011, 05:49:49 PM
As to the ease or lack thereof that the LC is having fighting the Adders (as opposed to, say, the Hellions), I have to refer those questions to the retired Star Adder players. The GM team is playing their defense using the resources left to us when those players left, and early on we decided not to fiat in additional forces for either side of the conflict.
Now, I'd intended not to revisit this, because my oppinions are rather similar to Parm's, but I'm laid up for the day so I had time and I did anyway, and this is what I saw.
Yes, the Adder plan was a lighting counter attack at Tharkad. As near as we could tell, leaving a path to Tharkad open was an oversite, and we felt that if we musted a large force we could exploit it and for a trial for the capitol world, in which we could impress on the Lyrans the nature of their tactics first hand and hopefuly come to an agreement by which future trials might be conducted with a bit of honor.
The first part of that was derailed by a simple innitive roll (had we won, we'd have beat the blockade and been on our way, after all). The next was in part my fualt; I failed till too late to think in terms of delaying tactics, and so I didn't take the nessissary action to win quickly and move on. I would also submit that my frusteration twards the end, and the reaction of other players and GMs to that frusteration, affected the outcome of that action negitively.
Now, let's look beyond that. The defences we set then were just for that turn. It was important to ensure that the Lyrans couldn't then and there reverse our action with an attack on Addergard or another key world, so they became fortresses while other worlds were stripped, because we expected we'd be able to insist of fair trials, in which case even one warrior with a pointy stick would have as good a chance as a million in mechs.
But, with the falure of plan A, sticking with the deployments made for plan A became silly. The assumptions that underlay plan A were no longer sensable after that. For example, because we still belived we could win at that time against the Lyrans, we actualy asked other Clans not to take significant action against them, so that we could be seen as more vital. But, after the Lyrans called on significant Falcon help at Vorzal, it would have been reasonable to call on our allies for help, which seems not to have taken place. With the largest part of the fleet distroyed, it would have been reasonable to reposition remaining units, which did not take place. It would have been reasonable to unleash the five strong galaxies in the Homeworlds against the Falcons, if not for a GM plot line that began right at the time it would have been least benifical to the Adders, who are very strong in the HW.
Yes, the GMs can salve their conciance by saying "well, we were just playing out the Adders' plan" and be techicaly right. But, I would critisize the GMs for not doing any planning of their own, once the plan became clearly obsolite (and I can point to the exact moment that took place: July 31st, 11:45 AM). Its akin to the French in WWI trying to carry out their own pre war plans in the face of the German attacks through Belgum. Adder plans assumed the presence of planners, who could adjust the plans as needed. They didn't call for the Adders to become dears in the headlights and just sit there and take it after things started to fall appart.
So I'm at ease admiting that I made a number of mistakes, absolutly. But I don't think that if some one even simiactive had been placed at the helm of the Adders and of the Hellions, things would look quite the way they do today, and that's a big part of the reason I haven't come around much like I once did.
Quote
Yes, the GMs can salve their conciance by saying...
Really? I'm sorry IM, but are you really trying to imply that I should somehow feel that I have made a moral or ethical failure for not investing the time to make sure that an abandoned faction makes optimal moves (at the expense of other priorities, like resolving open combat threads, working on rules fixes, and writing RP)?
I'm OK with constructive criticism, but this is getting silly. I get it that you guys are upset things aren't going well for your former faction - I would feel the same way if all the Dominion players bailed and then the ND got mauled; after all, be both put a lot of time into those factions and seeing them in decline isn't fun. Having said that, I think it is uncalled for you to call my character into question over the GM team's handling of an abandoned player faction.
Not that long ago, there were three players in Clan Star Adder. For a variety of reasons, some of them having to do with legitimate real-life constraints, but many of them also involving being unwilling to tolerate the "settling in" period of a new GM, you all left this game. All of you are still welcome here, and I appreciate your commentary and insight, but please don't rip into me for not putting as much time into your former faction as a team of three players did.
I don't think that, no. I think we all knew that any faction that has no players will nessissarly suffer.
I think the point is: call it what it is. You've just admitted not putting much time into the Adders, and I don't blame you for that and I don't think anyone else does.
But, I've seen also a lot of posts that lay this all on the ex-Adders. Other posters (not you, Dave, since you are a genuinely good guy) sometimes even call into qustion the reasons that many players quit around that time in way that I don't think are appropreate. So what I mean to reject is the notion that the disasters are entirely the fualt of the positive actions we took when we were in the game, setting our deployments and laying plans and such. I don't think that's the case, and though I don't think you think that's the case, one can read that from the post I quoted.
I think we both agree that the falure of the Adders and of the Hellions is that they are unled, and I don't reject that, and I don't say that the GMs had ought to do it. But, if that is what it is, then say that, and don't keep refrencing back to me and to Grae and the Marlin as our actions (asside from the action of quitting) is what doomed our factions. That is my whole point.
Now, looking back, I think I made that point poorly, and I do appologize. I think, as you correctly surmise, some of that is just bitterness comming out, and with no players to point to there's no one to speak to but the GMs, who are after running all the factions presently in the war.
As an aside, has anyone heard from Raginar (the Concordant player)? He hasn't been on the board since the 20th.
Quote from: Parmenion on September 25, 2011, 11:42:56 AM
As an aside, has anyone heard from Raginar (the Concordant player)? He hasn't been on the board since the 20th.
Last time I talked with him, he said he was extremely busy with work and he was having a hard time finding time to get on and post. Hopefully he will have more spare time in the next few days but if not I will square away the remaining action during the cleanup phase.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on September 25, 2011, 06:21:05 PM
Last time I talked with him, he said he was extremely busy with work and he was having a hard time finding time to get on and post. Hopefully he will have more spare time in the next few days but if not I will square away the remaining action during the cleanup phase.
That's what worries me :)
And after that ruling, I'm going to heat up some popcorn, get comfortable, and watch as the Sharkies arrive over Outreach and discuss said ruling from the Sharks viewpoint!!
Quote from: Parmenion on October 04, 2011, 02:18:51 AM
And after that ruling, I'm going to heat up some popcorn, get comfortable, and watch as the Sharkies arrive over Outreach and discuss said ruling from the Sharks viewpoint!!
LOL first step in the Sharks becoming the ilClan?
ilClan FWL's being on the FWL's fav five.
We aren't to terribly fond of the Goonies in Canon. In FGC I gurantee that when Outreach burn's the FWL will respond by declaring a national holiday.
That will be fun, when the Sharks invade TH territory. that will just go over SO well
Who's going to complain? Not I said Briar Leaguer.
And well the Star League WILL require a vote. I am certain we can remind the Terran's of how helpful they were when the Federated Sun's invaded us. Not that we are vindictive...oh wait totally are nevermind. :-)
The Star Leauge requires a vote to dispatch the SLDF. Im sure that the other nations of the SL will assist an ally whose been invaded.
Quote from: Daemonknight on October 05, 2011, 02:20:15 AM
The Star Leauge requires a vote to dispatch the SLDF. Im sure that the other nations of the SL will assist an ally whose been invaded.
So in line with the above, will the SL assist the FWL following the invasion of the League by the Federated Suns?
As an obeserver the SL overall has not been to effective due to the machinations of various members over the course of the game anyways. If the SL actually had worked from the get go there would be no clans in the IS.
Quote from: Deathrider6 on October 05, 2011, 12:05:10 PM
As an obeserver the SL overall has not been to effective due to the machinations of various members over the course of the game anyways. If the SL actually had worked from the get go there would be no clans in the IS.
Most definitely. Couldn't agree with you more. Most nations merely considered it a place to either veto anything good that an ancient enemy might get or as a place to headkick the smaller nations. To me, it lost a lot of it's luster with the way the Pasig Accords were done.
Before the jump, i was always quite curious as to how the SL didn't just come roflstomp the Falcons(again, as I am told). *shrug* maybe someday it'll be useful
Free Worlds League was preventing it.
We were trying to make the SLDF fully accountable to the council. We had some success in this as well.
The SLDF Commanding General was trying to grow the SLDF's independence at the same time which essentially put us in opposition to one another, and he needed the support of the House's above what the TH was providing him.
He however could never get any House Lord's to agree with him, and he opposed my initiatives on principle (every time he tried to leave the game I tried to absorb his faction (the wolves)).
Thing is we were actually moving in that direction. Coventry was the first step. You had the Combine, FWL, and Federated Sun's working together under SL flag.
Another couple of turn's without a jump I think we would have seen a SLDF fully subordinate and accountable to the Council by virtue of the Council Lord's military success above what the SLDF achieved, A peace with the Clan's as they were very much not working together as well as the DC/FS/FWL (in my opinion anyway) and we had already seen some tentative feeler's from a few Clans.
Mind you the Terran's would have been left out in the cold but I think it is pretty clear that the Clan's were never "REALLY" going for Terra as much as the FWL would have loved for that to happen.
The issue wasn't winning Terra. We could have done that. It's the cost. It would've gutted atleast 2 Toumans, including the Raven Navy. All it would take is one Clan sending forces late, and there wuld be one less GC member when the dust cleared. And most factions were not in major buildup mode like I put CJF into when I came in.
LOL, I was SO thrown off by the renaming of the turns ;) Glad to see the old numbers back though :)
So... who's stolen all the combat threads? ???
October 13, and there's scarcely a whiff of cordite in the air.
Quote from: Parmenion on October 13, 2011, 10:59:52 AM
So... who's stolen all the combat threads? ???
October 13, and there's scarcely a whiff of cordite in the air.
That's partly my fault. I have a ton of Falcon, Hellion, etc threads to post and I haven't had the time to post them yet. Tonight hopefully, but if not definitely tomorrow night things should be heating up a bit.
Fate all of "ours" are done right? I would be posting in the RP thread but am suffering a vicious case of writer's block. Hopefully I can shake it and get the muse rolling.
For the life of me I cant find the loyalty rules anywhere, can anyone else? I would like to read up on them.
Quote from: Deathrider6 on October 14, 2011, 11:04:18 AM
Fate all of "ours" are done right? I would be posting in the RP thread but am suffering a vicious case of writer's block. Hopefully I can shake it and get the muse rolling.
We have the warship break out match and continuous RP ;)
Man, it's hard to try and understand those SS rolls :P
Quote from: Holt on October 14, 2011, 07:30:02 PM
For the life of me I cant find the loyalty rules anywhere, can anyone else? I would like to read up on them.
I assume you are referencing the rolls some of your Cappie units have been subjected to. The results tables, and the criteria for which units are subject to them, are not available for public dissemination. They are a consequence of the method in which the CC was taken over by the Sharks.
I thought those units had already made their rolls, if I had known of further rolls i would have taken precautions. I am not a fan of unpublished rules.
Quote from: Daemonknight on October 14, 2011, 10:01:09 PM
Quote from: Holt on October 14, 2011, 07:30:02 PM
For the life of me I cant find the loyalty rules anywhere, can anyone else? I would like to read up on them.
I assume you are referencing the rolls some of your Cappie units have been subjected to. The results tables, and the criteria for which units are subject to them, are not available for public dissemination. They are a consequence of the method in which the CC was taken over by the Sharks.
Normally I don't either, but the point is that you have potentially unreliable units among your command, and telling you exactly who they are defeats the purpose of having them be unreliable, as does telling you what the mechanics behind their potential disloyalty are.
I have no problem with the rolls themselves, or the mechanics behind them. Its the the player base did not know it could happen, last turn I was told which units heeded to the SS orders and those that didnt and now every unit is rolling again.
Not every unit, less than half I believe, though I havn't gone through and counted exactly. Also, most of the time, assuming a unit fails it's Loyalty check, it'll either sit there and do nothing, or leave the hex, but otherwise remain under your control.
Out of i think 5 rolls, one has already turned rebel; on an 11 or 12 an 11% chance.
Btw dont think that I dont like the rule or that its broken in any way, i just hate being the guinea pig by having these rules sprung on me; because from now on people will plan for this, something icouldnt do.
I don't know how you think they(or you) could've planned for it
Shark unit along with the invaders, if the liao units didnt want to engage; the shark unit would.
suppose that would partially solve your problem
Not trying to solve the issue, just trying to plan for it.
To give a little background about the Capellan loyalty rules, here are the basics. As DK said, this is one situation (some of the special characteristics of the Homeworlds plague are another) where at this time at least the mechanical details of the rule won't be published immediately. In both cases though, the rules will eventually be published, once enough data has filtered out through the rolls themselves that its no longer 'a mystery.'
CC loyalty was a three step process.
When the surrender happened, the whole CC made a loyalty roll. This determined the percentage of CC military FP that went over without any complications at all. The remaining percentage was split into four groups (the distribution was randomly determined):
- Loses one loyalty level
- Rebels
- Becomes mercenaries
- "Loyalty Problems"
We have a list of the units in the 4th category, and whenever ex-CC troops go into combat we check that list to see if any of the 'problem' units are present. When they are present, we roll 2d6 and apply a modifier based on the circumstances of the order. The target, just like the earlier and less-developed version of the rule we used for the non-aligned Lyrans, is an 8+.
If the roll fails, we roll on a table of possible results, some of which have already been observed in action.
Quote from: Holt on October 14, 2011, 10:50:17 PM
Btw dont think that I dont like the rule or that its broken in any way, i just hate being the guinea pig by having these rules sprung on me; because from now on people will plan for this, something icouldnt do.
I should add too, these situations come up infrequently enough that when these scenarios do occur the GMs will probably "customize" the rule to fit the faction. For example, the version being used for the CC contains some modifiers that are totally different from the LC version used earlier, and the LC version had different outcomes for failed rolls than the CC/SS version.
Quote from: chaosxtreme on October 25, 2011, 01:45:48 PM
Note this is not current as of this turn. There will be one more update for this coming turn's map that reflect things for example the return of territory by the FWL to the Marian Hegemony. This current map is for 2 months ago. The next one will be for the start of this turn.
It seems to me that players would benefit from some exposition on the changes to the map. I've been running the Marian Hegemony, and even I'm not entirely clear on what happened.
For instance, Lothario 0532, was still contested when the Spirit Cats informed Sula O'Reilly that they were withdrawing from the Marian worlds. That was Turn 2.
The first I heard of FWL peacekeepers was when they landed on Alphard on Turn 5.
What did I miss?
---
Well I am purely the map guy now but so you have the full story.
Turn 3.
- FWL and Spirit Cat's make a secret agreement. Spirit Cat's hand over their entire Tech Tree and the Marian worlds they occupy in return for 650 RP loan (Yes gentlemen loan I don't buy I LOAN and get everything under the sun).
- Public story is that the FWL won a trial which we then announced in the SL council, our faction thread and a few other places.
- FWL hides this with an unsuccessful (possibly only partially unsuccessful) disseminate disinformation campaign which note's that the 2nd Oriente Hussar's were responsible for the trial on Atreus.
Turn 3
- FWL force's arrive at various spirit cat controlled former Marian world's spirit cat force's leave that turn after handing over the worlds. There are no thread's because you don't have to make one for territory transfers. Spirit Cat's hand over world's to the FWL. I kept expecting you to post Guerilla action thread's for Turn 4 but when you didn't I did not follow up on it.
Turn 4 or 5 (fuzzy memory)
- Second wave of FWL force's into newly acquired former marian territories. This time forces are sent to Alphard since the Marian's have made no move to retake their capital.
Worlds/hex's without defenders (pretty much just Alphard) are listed as Contested.
DK later ruled that turn that world's with guerilla force's were not handed over.
Look this wasn't just a land grab fact is I could have gotten the worlds cheaper.
Part of it was because of the long standing circinus dispute (goes back to before the 20 year jump).
But the expected endgame was that you were to discover you were without many of your worlds and under the Star League charter you would have no legal options to recoup them. Especially since you had requested such assistance in the High Council.
My long term goals were.
- Return of some or all of Marian territory received from the Spirit Cat's in exchange for.
+ Marian's abandon their plans to be absorbed into the Lyran Commonwealth
+ 6 or 7 council vote's in the future.
+ Marian support for a revision of the Star League charter that would prevent such an abuse in the future but also including restoring oversight of the SLDF to the High Council
+ Marian reparations for the MF on Circinus that had never been paid.
I figured it would be good roleplay as a fight would have been in no one's interest's. Gotten the Star League board active as well as engage the MH, FWL and Capellan player's in a story line together (though with the FWL/CC most likely opposed to the Marian's and the GM Factions in the SL Council (Fed Sun's, Terran Hegemony).
You were complaining about the Cat's ignoring your RP and I thought it a good way to make RP matter more then doom stacks. I couldn't "take" more territory not without activating the Star League auto defending the Marian Hegemony. Vice versa you could not attack me without the SLDF being legally obligated to assist me against your invasion.
Of course as we saw at Andurien there is occasionally plot armour for that sort of thing so I have been misreading the situation.
Vandalism posts have been deleted from the wiki and vandal accounts banned. You should no longer be seeing URL spam when you hit the random page button ;)
Cool. :)
Quote from: chaosxtreme on October 30, 2011, 02:36:13 PM
I figured it would be good roleplay as a fight would have been in no one's interest's. Gotten the Star League board active as well as engage the MH, FWL and Capellan player's in a story line together...
It would have made good roleplay. It's a shame it was all handled invisibly until the fracas on Alphard. All's well that ends well, I guess.
Unfortunately, I have no way of tracking changes of which I am not informed, nor any way to react to them. Other than an offhand remark from one of the GM's, I had no indication that the Spirit Cats might go back on their offer to return the Marian worlds. Without any way to track the events of the last few turns, I'm just going to step back and wait for the game to move forward. Time will tell if the Space Romans still have a role in the FC future. Maybe I'll pop back and check on them later.
For now, best of luck with the game.
Waaaaitaminit...
The FWL has naval control over the world of Regulus-enough control to sit there and OB population centres...
and they're not using that capacity to hammer the Brian fort?
WTF???
I admit it's not as glamourous, slagging the entrances and ferrocreting the firing points, but the problem with bunkers/fortresses, is that they're STATIONARY TARGETS. It's not going anywhere, and a sustained bombardment of the site should block/bury entrances, collapse near-surface tunnels, etc. etc...
apply enough naval-grade firepower to flatten the planet as they're threatening to do, and you can bury anyone stupid enough to stay indoors. Castles can't scatter.
I mean, seriously, check Murphy on this-if the FWL can't get in, they can damn sure make it so that the defenders can't come out...
Well, the fortress is buried in a mountain. The FWL doesn't know where the entrances are. And even if they did, targeting a door the size of a battlemech from 60,000 kilometers away, with a weapon designed to hit targets themselves almost a kilometer long(without atmospheric intetference btw), is not exactly 'precise'. So no, they can't just blast the doors and trap everyone inside the castle.
And besides, that kinda takes the fun out of the game a bit, don't you think? I mean, if they can create '100 ton' vetical tanks, with magical armor that only weighs 15-20 tons but can withstand the force of a nuclear blast...pretty sure they can make a bunker complex that can withstand orbital fire. Lasers and PPCs are still weapons that deal their damage from heat transfer, making them semi-useless here(as I said, theres a mountain on top of them). That leaves Autocannons and Naval Gauss...again, suffering from accuracy issues, assuming you hit the target, i'm pretty sure that if they decided to rib the tunnels with naval-grade structural materials, even once you 'dug' down to the fortress itself, it wouldn't just be 'oh, they're burried". Plus, to orbitally bombard the fortress, you have to come within range of it's anti-orbital defenses. Thus far, the Reguluans have unleased a number of nuclear-tipped anti-warship missiles, and whose to say there isn't more of them?
* Cough Cough * "DANTE" * Cough Cough*
For what its worth, the Regulus impasse will be broken soon... one way or another.
I feel that my opinion about Orbital Bombardments were kinda forced on me because right as I was coming in and the 2nd battle of Sudeten was going down. I was so ready to pull the tigger until people told me about the Ares II Convention and how we signed it :P
Now while it specifically states "General" Orbital Bombardment, not "Tactical" is forbidden, I still percieve in my mind the drawbacks of using any type of OB order. I know the day is coming where my hand will be forced, but unitl then, I'll try to avoid it. Use it as a last ditch effort, not a first.
Quote from: Fatebringer on November 04, 2011, 05:44:41 PM
I feel that my opinion about Orbital Bombardments were kinda forced on me because right as I was coming in and the 2nd battle of Sudeten was going down. I was so ready to pull the tigger until people told me about the Ares II Convention and how we signed it :P
Now while it specifically states "General" Orbital Bombardment, not "Tactical" is forbidden, I still percieve in my mind the drawbacks of using any type of OB order. I know the day is coming where my hand will be forced, but unitl then, I'll try to avoid it. Use it as a last ditch effort, not a first.
I think Ares II actually banned all Orbital Bombardment. That was one of Victor's more extreme white-hat projects.
Quote from: Daemonknight on November 04, 2011, 02:27:03 PM
Well, the fortress is buried in a mountain. The FWL doesn't know where the entrances are. And even if they did, targeting a door the size of a battlemech from 60,000 kilometers away, with a weapon designed to hit targets themselves almost a kilometer long(without atmospheric intetference btw), is not exactly 'precise'. So no, they can't just blast the doors and trap everyone inside the castle.
And besides, that kinda takes the fun out of the game a bit, don't you think? I mean, if they can create '100 ton' vetical tanks, with magical armor that only weighs 15-20 tons but can withstand the force of a nuclear blast...pretty sure they can make a bunker complex that can withstand orbital fire. Lasers and PPCs are still weapons that deal their damage from heat transfer, making them semi-useless here(as I said, theres a mountain on top of them). That leaves Autocannons and Naval Gauss...again, suffering from accuracy issues, assuming you hit the target, i'm pretty sure that if they decided to rib the tunnels with naval-grade structural materials, even once you 'dug' down to the fortress itself, it wouldn't just be 'oh, they're burried". Plus, to orbitally bombard the fortress, you have to come within range of it's anti-orbital defenses. Thus far, the Reguluans have unleased a number of nuclear-tipped anti-warship missiles, and whose to say there isn't more of them?
A mountain's a pretty big target, and really, the exits have to be in fairly logical places-an exit for a 'mech, for instance, isn't going to be 500 feet up a straight granite face, it's going to need some kind of ramp at minimum, and there are likely exit/entry or service roads that can be seen from the air.
Those tunnels might be ribbed with naval-grade materials, but the ground they're set in is still rock and dirt, an if the doors ARE big enough to admit/release battlemechs, that makes them large artillery or airstrike targets-and you don't need to hit the door, you just need to hit the rock around it-the idea isn't to open the hole, it's to CLOSE the hole.
You pattern the bombardments to make rockslides, then watch and see where they're having to dig out. Use the return-fire from the ground to zero in on their launch facilities and/or sensor nets-that stuff has to run near-or-above-the-surface. That makes it secondary target material for the next pass.
Second method's a little dirtier-Regulus has been inhabited for a LONG time, and mountains happen on basically one kind of ground-faultlines.
Aim at the faultline.
If Regulus has an active core (Which means a magnetic field, which in turn means everyone gets to live outside a dome), then you put enough force on one of those lines, it's going to shake something. Alternately, for about three days' thrusting, you can probably tugboat a half-kilometer rock up to 50M/S, and it's just maps and calculus, both of which FWLN people SHOULD have access to, because a Mountain isn't in Motion, and planetary motion is VERY predictable-it's not going to jink-anyone who can land a dropship, can drop a rock.
Hell, for that matter, you don't need one that big. 500 tonnes of undifferentiated silica asteroid and a dropship to push it is all you really need-you don't even need to come from the mid or outer system for that, since you're not trying to crack the planet.
((nods)) When it comes down to RPing stuff like that, don't forget heat and seismic imaging ;)
Quote from: Dave Baughman on November 04, 2011, 05:49:37 PM
Quote from: Fatebringer on November 04, 2011, 05:44:41 PM
I feel that my opinion about Orbital Bombardments were kinda forced on me because right as I was coming in and the 2nd battle of Sudeten was going down. I was so ready to pull the tigger until people told me about the Ares II Convention and how we signed it :P
Now while it specifically states "General" Orbital Bombardment, not "Tactical" is forbidden, I still percieve in my mind the drawbacks of using any type of OB order. I know the day is coming where my hand will be forced, but unitl then, I'll try to avoid it. Use it as a last ditch effort, not a first.
I think Ares II actually banned all Orbital Bombardment. That was one of Victor's more extreme white-hat projects.
Is there a list of the signatories to that still around?
Quote from: Giovanni Blasini on November 05, 2011, 12:03:21 AM
Quote from: Dave Baughman on November 04, 2011, 05:49:37 PM
Quote from: Fatebringer on November 04, 2011, 05:44:41 PM
I feel that my opinion about Orbital Bombardments were kinda forced on me because right as I was coming in and the 2nd battle of Sudeten was going down. I was so ready to pull the tigger until people told me about the Ares II Convention and how we signed it :P
Now while it specifically states "General" Orbital Bombardment, not "Tactical" is forbidden, I still percieve in my mind the drawbacks of using any type of OB order. I know the day is coming where my hand will be forced, but unitl then, I'll try to avoid it. Use it as a last ditch effort, not a first.
I think Ares II actually banned all Orbital Bombardment. That was one of Victor's more extreme white-hat projects.
Is there a list of the signatories to that still around?
I think there is a copy of it in the Archives. I will take a peek and see what I can find.
Quote
Apr. 12, 3064 - The Lyran Alliance hosts the 3064 Ares Conventions via HPG, with the intent on standardizing warfare between the Clans and the Inner Sphere. Delegations Present: SLDF, Word of Blake, Federated Suns, Clan Snow Raven, Clan Ghost Bear, Clan Steel Viper, Clan Wolf-in-Exile, Capellan Confederation, Clan Coyote, Marian Hegemony, Lyran Alliance, MRBC, Clan Wolf, Comstar.
The Ares Conventions are subsequently amended as follows:
Article I -- Nuclear Arms The use of any nuclear explosive device or variant thereof (To include so called "Dirty Bombs") is hearby banned from use in any situation. Manufacture or stockpiling of nuclear weapons is banned. This article does not inhibit the use of nuclear technology for legitimate science or civilian efforts such as nuclear power plants.
Article II -- Orbital Bombardment The use of orbital assets to bombard any targets on a planetary surface is prohibited. Further WarShips will not approach with in a 1000 kilometers of a planets interface layer unless expressly allowed by the governing body of the planet or its parent government.
How many of these factions still honor the Conventions, however, is a matter open to debate.
Quote from: Fatebringer on November 04, 2011, 07:23:43 PM
((nods)) When it comes down to RPing stuff like that, don't forget heat and seismic imaging ;)
There's also the Amontillado solution, but that requires having a regiment of engineers and enough combat units to keep the defenders busy while they work. The base concept being that you don't need to take the fortress, you don't even need to burrow inside-you just have to prevent the defenders from LEAVING. Eventually they'll run out of food, water, and other consumables because they're sealed in, and since the tunnels are reinforced with Naval-grade structural materials, any blasting to remove the obstacle is going to be just as dangerous to the guys doing it, as you could hope to expose them to with weapons fire. (Newton's a bitch that way, and Boyle's Law still applies to a sealed container...)
Not to mention air.
If you are pounding new relief's in the mountain. You are most definitely taxing/eliminating their air circulation system. eitheir through damage, or ya know super heating the air outside of the mountain.
Starved, dehydrated, or asphyxiated dead is dead.
Back when I was running the Skye portion of the Lyrans I had units assault a fortified position (defiance industries) and it was brutal that was after using Tactical Orbital bombardment and my losses were still on the heavy side. Conventional wisdom indicates that a three to one advantage is the bare minimum for such operations and you definately want air support on call at minimum.
Quote from: Deathrider6 on November 06, 2011, 03:27:05 PM
Back when I was running the Skye portion of the Lyrans I had units assault a fortified position (defiance industries) and it was brutal that was after using Tactical Orbital bombardment and my losses were still on the heavy side. Conventional wisdom indicates that a three to one advantage is the bare minimum for such operations and you definately want air support on call at minimum.
Generally speaking, military doctrine pretty much states that when assaulting fortified positions, 3:1 odds is the minimum you want to take in. Otherwise, besiege them.
Looks like business is starting to pick up a few major fights in the CC/SS...nice.
I approve this message.
Have fun Dave..
See, and I've been more jazzed about the Gran Turismo 5 update I just installed, and have only spent maybe an hour with since, especially since I've nearly perfectly duplicated my Bug: the Gran Turismo one's topping out at around 104 mph, whereas I've gotten my real one up to around 105 mph with RPMs to spare - best guess is around 110 mph top speed...and I've still got upgrades to do on the real one.
Who hoo! Gunfight on Bremen! Will CBS finally crush the Society OR will the tables be turned? I am looking forward to this even if I have to have a proxy fight it.
As long as you can get past Voltron, you'll be okay. I was suprised there were no Naval stipulations to that one. The Texas on Nightlord would have been a good fight. ;)
I am available for proxy, as well as I have a few games I need played out. Look me up peoples!
OK, so much for gaming this weekend. Helping my parents move furniture, need to do some work on the Bug, and write PowerPoint presentation. And move furniture and boxes at my own place.
I'm working on some special fun stuff in MM, maybe someone here can give me advice...
I'm messing with 'mechs and dropships, trying to work out "airmobile" tactics-use the droppers like Hueys.
Interesting scenarios take time. I'm trying to get games knocked out so that we have played results instead of just simrezzed effects. If anyone has anything that they NEED to be played out they should list it in the turn thread so we can focus on that. ;)
Might I also suggest a "Proxy list" to show who is available to proxy, on what days, so that willing players can be matched up to needy scenarios? (just a thought, mind, but it would be nice to have an 'availability' list-as in showing when people are available to play, who are willing to play.)
Might also be good to have a 'secret prize' available for anyone who's willing to Proxy a lot of fights, or maybe a raffle or something....dunno. I do know that some of us won't be doing anything really exciting until NEXT turn with our own factions. (that's going to be, from all indicators, durned exciting, too, hence the struggle to learn how to use Dropships in landing/assault ground mission situations...)
I am pretty much available every Friday and Saturday, barring sleep of course, and Sunday mornings. I am willing to proxy for just about anything, save Aero-anything. You wouldn't want to see me Aero-anything.
Might have some time in the day Saturday, and Sunday is looking pretty open.
Damn, Fate, you're rolling these turning points faster than I can keep up! Anybody got a list of what's still available for a fight by this coming weekend?
The Deia one could use players.. preferable good ones for the CIH. :D
Quote from: Cannonshop on December 06, 2011, 08:07:36 AM
Damn, Fate, you're rolling these turning points faster than I can keep up! Anybody got a list of what's still available for a fight by this coming weekend?
I put a list of what is and isn't done in the thread for "Mark your Progress". I figured as long as Dave hasn't ended the turn, we can keep rocking these battles so when he finally escapes Skyrim, we'll have results for him.
WoW, low blow Parm, low blow. :o
I was out of town for six days, but we got some fights done :) I'd like to see other people fighting each other though instead of just me. ;P I mean, of all the fights faught so far, I've played one side or the other.
I had to sleep early last night after driving 800 miles, then going to work, but I'll be available for games tonight ;)
Quote from: Fatebringer on December 13, 2011, 03:32:33 PM
WoW, low blow Parm, low blow. :o
"If it looks like a
duck merc, walks like a
duck merc, and talks like a
duck merc, well..."
DK used to call my Raven's Mercs in the Flashpoint game. :P The sad thing is, while I could justify my actions, he wasn't completely wrong. I mean, I faught on the FedSuns side in order to expand my holdings. But Nobles have been doing that forever without being called mercs... :P I picked up a good chunk of worlds. About half what my holdings were at the time. I'd make the decision again and again to do it the same way. There was just too much for our opportunistic asses to gain.
Quote from: Fatebringer on December 14, 2011, 04:52:19 PM
DK used to call my Raven's Mercs in the Flashpoint game. :P The sad thing is, while I could justify my actions, he wasn't completely wrong. I mean, I faught on the FedSuns side in order to expand my holdings. But Nobles have been doing that forever without being called mercs... :P I picked up a good chunk of worlds. About half what my holdings were at the time. I'd make the decision again and again to do it the same way. There was just too much for our opportunistic asses to gain.
Current game, the UIW took the Hegemony's (terran, not marian) money and the Marians' side against the Spirit Cats, and doubled our size plus 30% of our economic power in two turns.
Of course, we never claimed otherwise-it wasn't a "War for moral principles", nor for "Liebensrahm", nor for garden variety conquest (though it turned into one). It was a limited conflict for hard currency and trade favours...but the UIW has been doing that since Solaris VII's riots-taking money from other states to fight brushfire conflicts on their behalf.
Funny part is, the Toasters went and made us change our ways by making it personal.
It looks like version 35.26 finally adds in those missing mechs from 3085, the Brahma's finally in here. :)
I think Dave needs to take an arrow to the knee.
A little featurette called "Where I've been".
My machine's been tits-up for four days. I had to go through and completely reinstall EVERYTHING, on a new hard-drive to get rid of the gremlin that had infested it.
Consequently, I was unable to attend the Regulus fight at the scheduled time. I apologize, folks. I'm still finding the disks for the software applications I no longer have, and am still hunting down the product-codes for the apps like "Microsoft Office".
Needless to say, I don't have jack-shit of the data I HAD on the machine.
Do you still have the old hard drive? What were the symptoms that made you have to replace it?
Me and Holt knocked out Victoria in that time when people didn't show up. Was not my finest hour :P
Cant win em all, Fate.
Cannon, sorry to hear that. Thats always crappy.
I have decided to declare a trail against the Hell's Alliance! If I win, from now on, they have to call their Corax omni Fighter the "Brony" (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Brony), and we get the Corax name exclusively! XD
With positional advantage courtesy of the International Date Line, I'd like to wish everyone a Happy and Prosperous New Year.
I trust not too many sore heads will greet the New Year in your parts of the world ;)
Brian
Happy new year guys!!!
BTW, how is FGC3091 doing? I looked at the map and become dizzy with some many colors on it.
Quote from: Holt on December 15, 2011, 10:14:10 PM
I think Dave needs to take an arrow to the knee.
Hi guys, sorry for the short post, just wanted to confirm that I am in fact alive. I will make a proper post tomorrow.
Computer back up and running? check.
Microsoft Office with that lovely "Excel" programme fresh and installed? Check.
Now, I just have to hope Dave B. can kick me a copy of my order-sheet from last turn, since I no longer have ANY of my information... (i.e. PM sent.)
I just emailed the last set of orders to you. If anyone else needs orders, please let me know - pretty soon I'll be archiving and clearing out the orders mailbox, and from that point forward it'll be more time consuming to find old orders sheets.
Will need a copy of the DCs orders sheets as well.
Hell, I just rebuilt my comp after it crapped out on me as well.
The first thing I notices OBVIOUSLY was that the site format now mirrors that of the official CBT Site :P At first I was confused, I clicked the Intelser link and got CBT? Then the penny dropped.
I love that saying every sice that awesome Dr. Who episode :)
"What the hell, you've got a time machine, I've got a gun. Let's go kill Hitler!" Melody ~ Dr. Who Episode "Let's kill Hitler"
Melody kept using the phrase "Penny's in the air" whenever she was being cryptic and people had that puzzled look on their face, and when they finally got it, "aaand the penny drops."
I like the links on the bottom of the page as well as the top. May just be a minor irritant, but I always hated having to scroll back up. Cool.
Think you have it bad?
Greed let me buy (ebaying) 2 Graphiccards and when they arrived I realized that I do not have the right PC for it. (Not enough power and no connector) and I am not even talking about Crossfiring them. :-[
There is now a FB and twitter function?! You gonna have this site do dishes too? (Just kidding on the dishes thing Dave) The social media integration might work in our favor. I really am impressed.
Quote from: GreyJaeger on January 04, 2012, 02:42:59 PM
Will need a copy of the DCs orders sheets as well.
Hell, I just rebuilt my comp after it crapped out on me as well.
Sent
FYI, our Wiki is totally messed up. Even if Dave can repair it once again, is there a way to stop the creeps there? Because despite being thinly outfitted, the stuff that is there is close to me and in other parts very interesting.
Quote from: Marlin on January 08, 2012, 02:51:17 PM
FYI, our Wiki is totally messed up. Even if Dave can repair it once again, is there a way to stop the creeps there? Because despite being thinly outfitted, the stuff that is there is close to me and in other parts very interesting.
There are only two ways to keep the vandals out. One is for members to regularly use the wiki (and revert inappropriate changes). The other is to very tightly control membership. I'll be going through and cleaning up the wiki one more time this coming week, and at that time I'll probably be changing the membership settings. I will be deleting all current accounts and making it so that I have to personally approve anyone who wants to be an editor before they can make changes. This should prevent third parties from accessing the wiki.
Alright. But I guess anyone can still read, right? If so, good.
And is CBT.com down?
Quote from: Marlin on January 08, 2012, 08:46:43 PM
Alright. But I guess anyone can still read, right? If so, good.
And is CBT.com down?
Right. Though I didn't realize it had been bombed as bad as it has. This may take a little while to fix. I'll probably be shutting off all editing for now until I can fix things due to the ridiculous number of obviously malicious accounts that have been registered.
I think cbt.com has been offline for a while now. The new URL is bg.battletech.com
thanks on both accounts, yesterday it did not work for me, now its good. :)
2 things on the Waypoint Scenario: Please exchange the "ß" with a normal "s".
And a question: are the Adders in such dire straits that 8 FP of Lyran scum could finish them off? :-\
the Adder scum are indeed in such dire straights that 8 FP of Lyrans can finally liberate their occupied worlds
Quote from: Marlin on January 11, 2012, 05:51:22 PM
2 things on the Waypoint Scenario: Please exchange the "ß" with a normal "s".
And a question: are the Adders in such dire straits that 8 FP of Lyran scum could finish them off? :-\
Ah, my bad. That's what I get for relying on machine translation. Will update. More the 8 FP is there... the Turning Point is just a "slice of the action" representing the pivotal encounter of a larger engagement.
Fate... in regards the Skallevol turning point scenario, isn't there a large number of arriving jumpships, along with one Warship. Not just the one (CIHS Oxfordshire) which I think your refering to. cheers.
I'll look again :P It's been a while. I remembered reading about a busted helium ring and quarantined crews. Either way it's Emergency supplies, status checks and triage for people and equipement. The safety of the people comes first.
From what I see, the restriction makes it worthless for the adders to use their arty at Waypoint. One tube/unit is too inaccurate and random to be useful, and too dangerous to the using side. It's too random by itself, and the damage zone is too big for that randomness NOT to be a problem. Best option ends up being the paired thumpers, and even that's just barely matching capability to risk on a 1 to 1 ratio (barely enough capability to MATCH the risk you run using it and the complexity of the rules FOR using it).
Generally with CBT's artillery, you need a minimum of 3 firing units to start seeing a benefit from using it, with the best numbers at 4 and above on a large map. The reason is Patterning. 3-4 firing units gives the ability to lay down a pattern of fire that can make it dangerous to cross specific terrain at a rate that actually makes it...dangerous for an enemy unit to wander into. TAG requires getting into Large Laser ranges, which in turn puts you at "medium" for most post-Helm-Core weapons on a fairly sustained basis. MOst of the time another Clan ERML is more useful (being as it's far more likely to hit and actually do damage to the ENEMY), than a TAG module is when you've only got one tube to call on.
My advice to the Spirit Cat player is, if you're bringing the Adder arty in, go with the paired thors-your results are much more likely to be positive in terms of hurting your opposition than the odds that a single Arrow-IV 'mech or Marksman will be of any use whatsoever, and pick your terrain carefully. As the defender, you have the ability to, within reason, choose terrain that favours your fighting style and weapons. (means you don't have to try and defend on a pooltable with scattered trees. The enemy's bringing tanks, pick ground that is not nice to tanks-lots of hills, for instance, where they end up having to fall out of their 'wall o' steel' into columns to advance, and terrain pinch-points you can preregister with your arty so that it actually does SOMETHING USEFUL for you...)
Just tossin' it out there to let y'all know I'm not completely gone, just been busy as hell...
Knowing your map and using pre-planned targets is a good thing though. You think I'd luanch one of my nukes at Deia with anything other than a Pre-Planned target? Heeeell no! Now when your burst radius is 20 hexes. Minor arty drift is easy to work around as long as you know how the round could drift.
Quote from: Fatebringer on January 12, 2012, 07:54:50 PM
Knowing your map and using pre-planned targets is a good thing though. You think I'd luanch one of my nukes at Deia with anything other than a Pre-Planned target? Heeeell no! Now when your burst radius is 20 hexes. Minor arty drift is easy to work around as long as you know how the round could drift.
Nukes scale to a different range than standard fire-support roles. The Arty issue has more to do with
Tactical use than deploying a weapon that, on a game table, is about equivalent to dumping a cup of diesel on the mapsheet, then lighting everything on fire.
Quote from: Cannonshop on January 12, 2012, 09:16:55 PM
Quote from: Fatebringer on January 12, 2012, 07:54:50 PM
Knowing your map and using pre-planned targets is a good thing though. You think I'd luanch one of my nukes at Deia with anything other than a Pre-Planned target? Heeeell no! Now when your burst radius is 20 hexes. Minor arty drift is easy to work around as long as you know how the round could drift.
Nukes scale to a different range than standard fire-support roles. The Arty issue has more to do with Tactical use than deploying a weapon that, on a game table, is about equivalent to dumping a cup of diesel on the mapsheet, then lighting everything on fire.
heheh,,he said fire...
Artillery in penny packets is just about useless if you have less than 4 tubes you're wasting units in my opinion.
Stardate Friday 1/13/3091
Yes, it's friday the 13th. The outlook is very bleak as Crewman Holt has been missing for 2 days. The campaign on Deia has stalled without him and the Hellions are restless. I fear this day is full of bad omens as the carrion birds swarm the skies of Sudeten and sharks prowl the waters outside Capella.
Looking outside, the snow is falling. No doubt a precursor to the radioactive fallout that was predicted for this epic battle. We knew the Hellions would not go quietly into that good night, but we had no idea their pint sized fury would manifest so physically. By the end of the month all will know the events that transpired of Deia, who were men... and who were the real vermin.
I'll be around tonight calm yourself.
Quote from: Fatebringer on January 13, 2012, 03:07:50 PM
Stardate Friday 1/13/3091
Yes, it's friday the 13th. The outlook is very bleak as Crewman Holt has been missing for 2 days. The campaign on Deia has stalled without him and the Hellions are restless. I fear this day is full of bad omens as the carrion birds swarm the skies of Sudeten and sharks prowl the waters outside Capella.
Looking outside, the snow is falling. No doubt a precursor to the radioactive fallout that was predicted for this epic battle. We knew the Hellions would not go quietly into that good night, but we had no idea their pint sized fury would manifest so physically. By the end of the month all will know the events that transpired of Deia, who were men... and who were the real vermin.
Just in case anyone's still reading/following along/cares...
Yup. it took MONTHS, but the UIW's issued a formal declaration of unrestrained war against the MD/Blood/toasters.
Yah.
Unrestrained.
The "exact text" (sort of, haven't finished writing the actual "Signed" version Deb's going to approve yet) includes "Forces and States aiding and abetting..."
What does this mean for the neighbours?
It means, the UIW's not going to be accepting challenges/trials for a bit, and anyone who just hauls off and punches is going to end up on the kill-list.
y'see, they intend to go out and kill some folks, and they don't want anyone in the way.
How is this different from what's going on with the Falcons and the Hellions? simple: the UIW has a reason-their territory was violated by someone who likes to shoot at civilians, and they don't cotton to that...not one bit. It's actually "Proportional" response-the Toasters bombarded civvies, so they're going to go kill Toasters in a rather less-than-selective manner.
A manner limited only by pure hardware availability and the ability to FIND said Toasters.
I imagine there's probably room for some of the 'big boy' players to see this as an amusing development-on a par with the ninety-pound weakling taking on the school bully.
Should me for some interesting reading as this particular plot line unfolds. ;)
Good luck and skill, Cannon, I bet there are some (if still alive) who might support your course, even if only in mind.
WARNING: SHAMELESS PLUG WARNING: SHAMELESS PLUG
So yeah, anyone who enjoys the RPing aspects of this game, you are more than welcome to come down and join the AToW game I've started. As anyone can see, we've just started discussing the available contracts for the group, so now isn't a bad time to jump in, as the first mission hasn't been decided yet.
On a separate note: would anyone here be interested in playing an AToW game set during the FGC62 timeline? I think it would be really cool to tell some of the more specific stories of different groups, like maybe get a group together, and choose conflicts(or simply important battles) and have like a 1-2 month sesssion that deals with the personalities of that conflict. Then we go on to another one, and keep going with that. Some battles get some love, but not usually more than a few hours(in-game time) worth of RP exposure. It would be cool, I think, to either follow the different major battles, or choose a special unit from some of the factions, and follow them around, switching off every other month to keep the stories fresh, and allow us to explore the whole game.
Alternatively, if Dave authorized it, we could play the other side: who would be interested in playing the Blakists, or even the Manei Domini in AToW during some of their major campaigns? Who wouldn't enjoy playing out, for like a 4-6 month period, the fall of the MD in the Hegemony? We all know the offical story: the Dragoons orchestrated a coup against the WoB, using the THAF, and ousted pretty much the entire WoB from TH space: 7th Kommando and WolfNet persued Apollyon, almost nabbing him twice, before he 'died' when Dragoons aerospace fighters shot down his escaping dropship. Who wouldn't enjoy playing his closest MD retainers during his flight through hostile space untill he reached whatever safe haven he was staying at, before the events of the FWL Civil War?
Just saying, I think some of the stuff thats happened would be well served by a few months of intensive RP treatments, to really bring some of the pivotal moments of the FGC game to life. Just food for thought guys, lemme know what you think, but start a thread in the AToW section- this was just here because most of you guys likely don't visit that section, since you arn't playing anything there.
Quote from: Daemonknight on February 14, 2012, 12:35:04 AM
WARNING: SHAMELESS PLUG WARNING: SHAMELESS PLUG
So yeah, anyone who enjoys the RPing aspects of this game, you are more than welcome to come down and join the AToW game I've started. As anyone can see, we've just started discussing the available contracts for the group, so now isn't a bad time to jump in, as the first mission hasn't been decided yet.
On a separate note: would anyone here be interested in playing an AToW game set during the FGC62 timeline? I think it would be really cool to tell some of the more specific stories of different groups, like maybe get a group together, and choose conflicts(or simply important battles) and have like a 1-2 month sesssion that deals with the personalities of that conflict. Then we go on to another one, and keep going with that. Some battles get some love, but not usually more than a few hours(in-game time) worth of RP exposure. It would be cool, I think, to either follow the different major battles, or choose a special unit from some of the factions, and follow them around, switching off every other month to keep the stories fresh, and allow us to explore the whole game.
Alternatively, if Dave authorized it, we could play the other side: who would be interested in playing the Blakists, or even the Manei Domini in AToW during some of their major campaigns? Who wouldn't enjoy playing out, for like a 4-6 month period, the fall of the MD in the Hegemony? We all know the offical story: the Dragoons orchestrated a coup against the WoB, using the THAF, and ousted pretty much the entire WoB from TH space: 7th Kommando and WolfNet persued Apollyon, almost nabbing him twice, before he 'died' when Dragoons aerospace fighters shot down his escaping dropship. Who wouldn't enjoy playing his closest MD retainers during his flight through hostile space untill he reached whatever safe haven he was staying at, before the events of the FWL Civil War?
Just saying, I think some of the stuff thats happened would be well served by a few months of intensive RP treatments, to really bring some of the pivotal moments of the FGC game to life. Just food for thought guys, lemme know what you think, but start a thread in the AToW section- this was just here because most of you guys likely don't visit that section, since you arn't playing anything there.
Okay, just running the idea down the field a little bit...
Which factions are INTERESTING enough to run an ATOW set in the 'FC91 universe? Which interesting factions have Faction Players willing to surrender some of their faction control to make it viable?
There were some great events that might've been really cool RP campaigns-the fall of the Lyran Commonwealth, the brief dominance of the Arc Royal fascists, and the retaking by Bobby Steiner for instance (on that side of the map), or the war with the Dark on the Feddie/Cappie/Magistracy side of the map (all that stuff in late '62), The time-jump period which got glossed over had a FEW events that would've been interesting as well.
I'm going to be nice and NOT bring up some of the concerns I've got over how viable this idea IS-at least, at this point-based on the concept that maybe those issues either won't crop up, or will be dealt with.
...
Which faction's ARE NOT interesting enough to play. Is the FGC campaign somehow less interesting than the stock campaign timeline? I would think that the player driven storyline has made the FGC world more complex and in some cases much deeper than the canon timeline. And why would anyone need to give up any faction control to make it viable? Nobody writes up a 100% complete treastise on every battle. And nothing says the 2 campaigns need to be connected in any meaningful way, aside from the FGC campaign being the backdrop. If we start a month behind the FGC timeline, and we make the time compression work right, we'd be able to have things happening at roughly the same pace through the games(the AToW game would miss out on certain events because of the timelag of transport and whatnot, but that happens...take one contract, miss out on another). And its a totally moot point if we decided to be playing older campaigns just to give them a stronger fluff treatment.
So, you've already brought up concerns for the game, making your parting comment somewhat irrelevant. You could have just asked questions, instead of pointing out areas of concern and phrasing your whole post as an attack on the concept you know. I'm just trying to breathe some life into the forums since they've been very dead of late. And if you have concerns, that's fine, but maybe instead of just shooting down ideas, maybe you could add some in to make the game experience better. But if you are going to be raising said concerns, I take it to mean that you want to be playing in it?
Quote from: Daemonknight on February 17, 2012, 01:58:13 AM
...
Which faction's ARE NOT interesting enough to play. Is the FGC campaign somehow less interesting than the stock campaign timeline? I would think that the player driven storyline has made the FGC world more complex and in some cases much deeper than the canon timeline. And why would anyone need to give up any faction control to make it viable? Nobody writes up a 100% complete treastise on every battle. And nothing says the 2 campaigns need to be connected in any meaningful way, aside from the FGC campaign being the backdrop. If we start a month behind the FGC timeline, and we make the time compression work right, we'd be able to have things happening at roughly the same pace through the games(the AToW game would miss out on certain events because of the timelag of transport and whatnot, but that happens...take one contract, miss out on another). And its a totally moot point if we decided to be playing older campaigns just to give them a stronger fluff treatment.
So, you've already brought up concerns for the game, making your parting comment somewhat irrelevant. You could have just asked questions, instead of pointing out areas of concern and phrasing your whole post as an attack on the concept you know. I'm just trying to breathe some life into the forums since they've been very dead of late. And if you have concerns, that's fine, but maybe instead of just shooting down ideas, maybe you could add some in to make the game experience better. But if you are going to be raising said concerns, I take it to mean that you want to be playing in it?
I think either I blew my approach, or you blew the reception, DK. I was asking the first question as a general-to-the-forums call of "Where do you want to start?".
The second was a reference to certain players' angry reactions when they felt that their intentions were being ignored vis-a-vis certain actions and events. Having people quit because of events not being interpreted as they'd originally envisioned is something that's happened in the main-game, and if an ATOW campaign is to be done, it's best that it doesn't fall apart because someone got their feelings hurt by others not interpreting their intent the way they'd meant it.
I guess I should've just said, "Who's willing to give the GM some slack?" (besides me, anyway), again, a question more for the general forum denizens/players than a hostile question toward your idea.
Likely a bit of both. Oh well, no harm, no foul.
As for the factions, there are really 2 options: we run a mercenary unit in the time period, so everyone has their own characters and can do whatever they like without resorting to reading previous RP. The other option is the revolving door-scenario: we pick a famous battle(or time period), run with it for 2-3 months, then move on to something else. You already named some good ones: the rise/fall of Arc Royal, the Dark incursions into the FS. Another few examples I feel would do really well with some more extensive RP treatment: the Falcons' sweep-and-clear of the Blakists from the UIW(SF/small units focus), the FWL attempt to subvert the Marian Hegemony(diplomacy/RP heavy), the fall of the Commonwealth(would likely need to be broken into multiple seperate campaigns, unless we chose a unit and stick to following them during the events and find where they end up), the formation of the Lyran Alliance(I know some people were very curious as to how I envisioned it going together, and I'd be happy to guide a game through my vision, and see what people did with the arc I built), the fall of Clan Star Adder(it would culminate with the crushing naval defeat at the hands of the Falcons and Lyrans over Vorzel), the Dragoons' routing of the Manei Domini within the Terran Hegemony.
With Dave's permission, we could even explore the following: Apollyon's escape from WolfNet and 7th Kommando on Terra, Arthur Steiner-Davion's annihilation of the Dark, the biological attacks in the homeworlds/Diana Pryde's defense of Strana Mechty, the FWL Civil War(especially with regards to the events on Regulus, and the eventual destruction of Gibson)... There are obviously more, but those are some of the major events that I think of. It would come down to me picking a few events as lots, and letting players vote on which event in a given group we play, and rotating groups.
As for the 2nd part; the merc campaign will make it a non-issue. As I'll have the leader be an NPC, I'll be the primary point of contact between the merc unit and the various liasions. So I'll either ask the faction leader(remember, NOBODY has any claim to any faction untill after they've gone through the FS first), or just make it up. Since the ATOW game has no bearing on the FGC game, people shouldn't be getting to bent out of shape. Also, since theres little to no politics involved, it should be a more minor issue in general.
If we do the historical campaigns, it'll be a simple matter for me to contact the players who were faction leaders of the two sides and ask for a quick synopsis of what they were trying to accomplish. But since it's all past tense, again, it shouldn't be a big deal.
Quote from: Daemonknight on February 17, 2012, 08:57:16 AM
Likely a bit of both. Oh well, no harm, no foul.
As for the factions, there are really 2 options: we run a mercenary unit in the time period, so everyone has their own characters and can do whatever they like without resorting to reading previous RP. The other option is the revolving door-scenario: we pick a famous battle(or time period), run with it for 2-3 months, then move on to something else. You already named some good ones: the rise/fall of Arc Royal, the Dark incursions into the FS. Another few examples I feel would do really well with some more extensive RP treatment: the Falcons' sweep-and-clear of the Blakists from the UIW(SF/small units focus), the FWL attempt to subvert the Marian Hegemony(diplomacy/RP heavy), the fall of the Commonwealth(would likely need to be broken into multiple seperate campaigns, unless we chose a unit and stick to following them during the events and find where they end up), the formation of the Lyran Alliance(I know some people were very curious as to how I envisioned it going together, and I'd be happy to guide a game through my vision, and see what people did with the arc I built), the fall of Clan Star Adder(it would culminate with the crushing naval defeat at the hands of the Falcons and Lyrans over Vorzel), the Dragoons' routing of the Manei Domini within the Terran Hegemony.
With Dave's permission, we could even explore the following: Apollyon's escape from WolfNet and 7th Kommando on Terra, Arthur Steiner-Davion's annihilation of the Dark, the biological attacks in the homeworlds/Diana Pryde's defense of Strana Mechty, the FWL Civil War(especially with regards to the events on Regulus, and the eventual destruction of Gibson)... There are obviously more, but those are some of the major events that I think of. It would come down to me picking a few events as lots, and letting players vote on which event in a given group we play, and rotating groups.
As for the 2nd part; the merc campaign will make it a non-issue. As I'll have the leader be an NPC, I'll be the primary point of contact between the merc unit and the various liasions. So I'll either ask the faction leader(remember, NOBODY has any claim to any faction untill after they've gone through the FS first), or just make it up. Since the ATOW game has no bearing on the FGC game, people shouldn't be getting to bent out of shape. Also, since theres little to no politics involved, it should be a more minor issue in general.
If we do the historical campaigns, it'll be a simple matter for me to contact the players who were faction leaders of the two sides and ask for a quick synopsis of what they were trying to accomplish. But since it's all past tense, again, it shouldn't be a big deal.
There are a few more that were "roleplay" elements but didn't get a lot of 'airplay' you can add to your menu, DK:
The UIW's "Contract Period" working for the FWL between 3069 and 3085 or so- starting with their work on Solaris VII. Among other mssions the Marines were pulling at that time, they were training FWL-sponsored local units and new-minted units on former Lyran worlds, conducting counterinsurgency and antiterrorism missions, and doing joint exercises with FWLN. The pay from that included several warships, a decent amount of straight Resources and licenses for certain FWL designs (particluarly aerospace designs) along with assistance in getting production lines up and running (you can check with Chaos on this-I'm sure he still has a copy of most of the relevant word documents), the Union's troops assisting Robert and co. in taking down the CLP (Lyran Fascists), particularly campaigns on New Capetown and Arc Royal itself.
Also the minor operations and co-operations with the Falcons over those twenty years. (IIRC, you had copies of the relevant treaties before Deatherider bowed out... Mine all went poof when the hard-drive died.)
Really, the 20 years between 3070 and 3090 are probably our best bet for a roleplaying campaign-most of the faction-heads currently present who were present before the time-jump only addressed that period loosely (if at all), and it covers some of the events you're most excited about-like the Dragoon counter-coupe in the Hegemony, formation of the LA, etc.
As for the bit about how we're all going to be forced to play Feddies for a while...I don't look forward to that, honestly. I view it as a task to be completed-that bit of the game one does because one must in order to get to the part one is here for, rather than any sort of "Opportunity" or anything else favourable, it's an imposition I'm willing to endure in order to get to the game I WANT to play, a "Grind session", nothing more.
thats kinda the point Cannon. Dave wants everyone to go through it so we all know the rules well. Things are changing alot, the whole point of the FS thing is to make sure everyone is on the same page, and we don't have situations where someone didn't fully read or understand the rules, and we get foul ups. The point I was making, was that everyone has to do it, and nobody owns a faction untill they do- so prior to that happening, the AToW game is completely open in what it can/can't do as far as contracts and missions, though it's upto Dave if the AToW campaign even has a bearing on the FGC. We can play an AToW campaign using the FGC as backdrop, without it actually influencing any of the events.
But I don't want this to turn into a discussion of what missions can or can't be done. This was just me trying to drum up some interest. If you'd like to discuss what we can do with an FGC-themed AToW game, make a thread in the AToW section, please. And while I know you have a big passion for the UIW's various goings-on, we're likely not going to touch on alot of the mercenary missions they were doing, because little of that was important stuff in the larger sense, AND, I'd want to visit every faction if possible. Especially factions that didn't get alot of face time, like the FS, the DC, and the CC.
Quote from: Daemonknight on February 17, 2012, 09:56:41 AM
thats kinda the point Cannon. Dave wants everyone to go through it so we all know the rules well. Things are changing alot, the whole point of the FS thing is to make sure everyone is on the same page, and we don't have situations where someone didn't fully read or understand the rules, and we get foul ups. The point I was making, was that everyone has to do it, and nobody owns a faction untill they do- so prior to that happening, the AToW game is completely open in what it can/can't do as far as contracts and missions, though it's upto Dave if the AToW campaign even has a bearing on the FGC. We can play an AToW campaign using the FGC as backdrop, without it actually influencing any of the events.
But I don't want this to turn into a discussion of what missions can or can't be done. This was just me trying to drum up some interest. If you'd like to discuss what we can do with an FGC-themed AToW game, make a thread in the AToW section, please. And while I know you have a big passion for the UIW's various goings-on, we're likely not going to touch on alot of the mercenary missions they were doing, because little of that was important stuff in the larger sense, AND, I'd want to visit every faction if possible. Especially factions that didn't get alot of face time, like the FS, the DC, and the CC.
Part of posting HERE is to see if there's sufficient interest to bother with a thread on the ATOW section, DK. For me, getting into it would involve buying a book beforehand, (I don't have the PDF's, and I won't download from Torrent sites.)
So, prior to putting money down, I want to see if there's going to be a game I want in on as a player, rather than just spectating. If I'm just spectating, then I don't feel it's fair to the players to choke THEIR section of the forums with MY opinions and suggestions for THEIR game.
So, first, let's check interest-levels, see if people will latch on to it. If there's enough interest, then, indeed, I'll skeedaddle down to Loren's Store at the Everett Mall, pay out some cashy-money, buy a book, and join in. if not...I'm getting to that point in my gaming career where I'm no longer interested in buying a book, THEN finding a game. I've a tonne of books for systems that're obselete, forgotten, or obscure to the point of never being played-many in "Mint" condition just due to never having found a group/campaign. Some of those books were for Battletech/Mechwarrior connected properties. A few I even playtested elements for.
I'm wanting to see WHO is interested, and HOW interested they are, that's best served, imho, on THIS thread.
Cannon, this is NOT the place to be having this discussion. Its for the Fan Council games. The only reason I posted here originally, is because most people who play this game, are ONLY looking at this thread. Now there is a small discussion on the thread, so people are aware of my intent. It's now time to move this off the FGC section, and into the AToW section.
Your beliefs not withstanding, this isn't the best place to be having a lengthy AToW discussion. I'm moving any further conversation into the AToW section, WHERE IT BELONGS. If people are interested, they'll come down. If they arn't, they arn't. But clogging up the FGC's OOC section by talking about AToW isn't fair to the people who don't care about AToW.
If you, or anyone else, wants to make their interest known, goto the AToW OOC board, and look for the post about the FGC spin-off game. And read this post as "DK the Moderator", not "DK the AToW GM".
This Thread, DK? (http://intelser.org/forums/index.php/topic,3834.0.html)
yes, that's the one. I know i said in the thread i'm more interested in seeing who is willing to play, but I don't have an problem discussing the play style if we've got more than 1 interested party. And Cannon, if you are afraid of buying the book before you have a game, I'll toss you my copy so you can look through it, or I can just teach you the basics over Skype sometime so you get a feel for the system before you commit
Quote from: Daemonknight on February 20, 2012, 11:07:28 PM
yes, that's the one. I know i said in the thread i'm more interested in seeing who is willing to play, but I don't have an problem discussing the play style if we've got more than 1 interested party. And Cannon, if you are afraid of buying the book before you have a game, I'll toss you my copy so you can look through it, or I can just teach you the basics over Skype sometime so you get a feel for the system before you commit
I had an idea, so I did up a reply on the ATOW thread for a possible FGC spin-off. IIRC, there're entries on the FCWiki for most of it, but I lost the link when I lost the old hard-drive.
I shall provide you. Go to parent directory but be warned, the wiki is flooded with pestilence and spam. You will have to search for your item and it will be there (without damage I think). Random page and recent changes are doomed so far. :(
http://fc62.intelser.org/Archives/ (http://fc62.intelser.org/Archives/)