I've had several people, and a few of my personalities ;D, state that I should really come up with a better name for Charlie's "Adder Commonwealth"
So far though, only one person has suggested an alternative
After some thought, I decided I'm going to ask the rest of you, and please only serious suggestions, save the humorous/derogatory/weird names for the OCC Thread:
What are your ideas for names of Charlie's "Nation"?
With the GM's permission and indulgence, this, not sure what to call it, will last for the rest of this turn with a probably Poll being put up next turn for final judging
Oh, and blame Jeyar and his "Vote For Planet X's Future" from the last couple of turns for giving me the idea ;)
How about he maintain the official name of his state as the "Lyran Commonwealth" Since he is attempting to assume the Archonship thereof. All other names should be derision's, slights, and other such insulting things geared towards denying him a proper claim to the throne of Tharkad.
Other then that a combination of whatever the proto Alarion and Coventry states were initially called. :-)
Or maybe try to sound even BETTER... ;D
If you're going for the self image molding - The Heroachy of Adder Commonwealth. Has the unfortunate shortened forms of ThoAC or HAC. Almost as accurate, the Hoplarchy of Adders.
Alternately the Addler Minarchy has a ping of zing....
Like I told you already, GG, my suggestion is a simple one: the Star Commonwealth. I'll summarize the reasons I told you for those interested in why I suggested it.
- It gives the air of fusion and legitimacy just as well as Rasalhague Dominion.
- It is true to the fact that the Adders actually go out of their way NOT to emphasize their totem in canon, which also has the added effect of being somewhat soothing to the anti-Clanners under Charlie's aegis.
- It not only evokes the *Star* Adders, but the ideal of the *Star* League as well, which is what the Adders aspire to recreate (under their own guiding hand, of course).
- It's politically neutral enough to where it's not going to offend anyone.
- Calling it "Lyran Commonwealth" is all well and good, but the Adders are pragmatic enough to know not to just assume THAT mantle. Also, they might be interested in creating something different altogether, because the LC has shown (in Clan terms, anyway) that it has failed... and why would the Adders want to waste time on something that's failed when they have the opportunity to create something new, something that works, something to show the Spheroids that the Clan way DOES work?
- "Adder Commonwealth" sounds absolutely stupid.
Just my two cents.
"Team Awesome"? "Clan Lyran" or "Clan Stiener"? "Clan Mongoose pt2: This time, its ok to have socal generals"? Either "Spain" or "Nederlands" depending on who wins later?
Wait two turns for me to get my nukes into position, and it won't matter >=)
Maybe the "Steiner Protectorate?" It establishes legitimacy via the Steiner name, and answers to the fact that the Commonwealth is a mess. As a plus (from my perspective), the Protectorate label has historically been used for quasi-legitimate states created by an outside power. It's not strong enough to make them a priori illegitimate, but maybe evokes some of the oddity of the claim asserted by Charlemagne.
That's not a bad idea, either, GG, and the reasoning is solid. :)
I'd vote "Lyran Commwealth ", for two reasos:
1. Legitimacy. Charlemagne's entire claim is based on Salic Law, but it's for the Archonship of the Lyran Commonwealth.
2. Administrative simplicity: it's going to cost enough changing the million or so forms to say "Charlemagne Steiner, Archon" already. The cost of changing the rest of the symbols to a new Letterhead would be astronomical.
I think I've made that case as well, of course. But what fun is that?
Stiener Protectorate sounds like a winner it's way better than my suggestion (note humor) which was "Malignant tumor" ;D Then I had to stuff my inner Lyran back in the box and break out my inner Cobra ( Dammit the Adder's absorbed them) so that would be inner Adder right?
Look Charlie, How can I put this best....
The two people who want your job keep saying "WHATEVER YOU DO DON'T CALL IT THE LYRAN COMMONWEALTH!"
The one guy in Lyran space who doesn't want your job keeps saying "Yeah the best thing you can do is call it the Lyran Commonwealth."
Maybe you ought to cal it the Lyran Commonwealth...just saying.
You could always have it both ways - call it the Steiner Protectorate, Lyran Commonwealth. I just think that putting the "Steiner" at the front shows that you have what none of the other claimants to the government have: someone who signs his name thus without a hyphen. Assuming that Adam Steiner is presumably not placing a claim, that is.
You don't want to do that. Making it seem as if you're somehow separate from the established nobles of the Commonwealth, only emphasises the outsider issue that Charlie faces. He needs to simply call it the Lyran Commonwealth. Calling it anything else makes it seem as if the Clans are taking the Lyran worlds, and taking advantage of a chance surname, and making some new nation, as opposed to saving the Commonwealth from the depredations of the nobility thats trying to tear it appart through greed.
Just call it the Lyran Commonwealth. Eventually, Charlie will need to deal with the unlawful govornments on Donegal/Skye and Arc-Royal, and will most likly have the backing of atleast the Star Adders, and most likly the other Clans. That way, the Clans will be able to install a new Successor State, run the way it should've been according to Kerensky's Vision, instead of for the personal gain of the nobility that currently drives most of the Houses.
Quote from: Daemonknight on July 11, 2010, 08:54:57 PM
That way, the Clans will be able to install a new Successor State, run the way it should've been according to Kerensky's Vision, instead of for the personal gain of the nobility that currently drives most of the Houses.
Not sure that logic holds - according to Kerensky's vision, there would have been no Successor States. :P
Depends which Kerensky, I guess...
Quote from: Jeyar on July 11, 2010, 04:04:09 PM
Or maybe try to sound even BETTER... ;D
If you're going for the self image molding - The Heroachy of Adder Commonwealth. Has the unfortunate shortened forms of ThoAC or HAC. Almost as accurate, the Hoplarchy of Adders.
Alternately the Addler Minarchy has a ping of zing....
Ooh - Star Heroachy! I wouldn't want to be on an intellegence team there, but still.... ;D
A few insights and comments on what I've read and my "vision" of the Adders:
While I can see the POV to retaining the Lyran Commonwealth, Charlie (and Stan) want to distance themselves from it for pretty much the reasons stated: the Lyran Commonwealth failed in the end, the inattentiveness and/or selfishness of many of its nobles over the last few turns, and Charlie's area is going to serve as a prototype for the Adder's variation of the RasDom/Palladine Protectorate/Horse Alliance, though he'll be working from the ground up with a group that really weren't all that threatened by the Clans due to their location and want something different other than "well, they took as over, may as well make the best of it" perspective that can be inferred from the others
Remember, these worlds chose Charlie to lead them after their last form of government failed them, that didn't really happen with the Bears/FRR, Horses/OWA and Scorpions/Exiles and Lyran ceded worlds
To an extent I'd like to retain Commonwealth as part of the name as an indication that Clan Star Adder strives to provide for/protect the Common Man
The Adders, Clans in general, have just gone through an Event that revealed that having additional subdivisions within a Clan: cloisters; kindraa; crusader; warden; hell, even the caste system, but not really viable to eliminate all as there will always be "haves" and have nots" in any society, though the Adders (from my concept of them) try to minimize the socio-economic gap between different society classes, aren't exactly productive.
On the whole, there aren't that many Clans that really "practice what they preach" when it comes to the
espirit de corps; Adders, Spirits, Wolves (pre-Refusal War) and Bears embody it best in my mind, and that's what I've generally striven for when it comes to my RP with the Adders
Quote from: Jeyar on July 11, 2010, 04:04:09 PM
Or maybe try to sound even BETTER... ;D
If you're going for the self image molding - The Heroachy of Adder Commonwealth. Has the unfortunate shortened forms of ThoAC or HAC. Almost as accurate, the Hoplarchy of Adders.
Alternately the Addler Minarchy has a ping of zing....
Quote from: Jeyar on July 12, 2010, 12:23:03 AM
Ooh - Star Heroachy! I wouldn't want to be on an intellegence team there, but still.... ;D
Not sure what a Heroarchy or Hoplarchy is?
I am liking Steiner Protectorate as a contender, even as a shortened version of a longer name (see the full name for the RasDom)
However, Protectorate is already in use by a Faction, even if it isn't used IC very frequently...it's still a good possibility as I like the way it sounds
A heroarchy is exactly what it looks like. I laughed when I saw hoplarchy. The primary meaning 'οπλον is tool, but it can also mean weapon (hence hoplite). The only thing I could think of was "yeah, our rulers are a bunch of complete tools, but at least they're upfront about it."
IIRc, the Hoplon was a big shield.. so.. it has its beauty. :)
You're probably thinking of aegis. Hoplon covers everything from fishing wire to blacksmith's implements, to spears; thinking about it "implement" is probably the closest you can come in English.
edit: Hoplon can mean the shield too, but it's a pretty wide-ranging word.
I wish I'd have thought of you when I was looking up that term a while back for my Hoplite mech of the week article. I know I trust your knolage of ainciant languages better than the internets'.
lol - regardless of what it COULD have meant, a hoplarchy is a government of the soldiers. ;D
Heroarchy is a government of heros (however the hero in question doesn't have to be military - just someone with the tagged attribute "hero", which could be a bit wider).
Quote from: Jeyar on July 12, 2010, 09:51:16 PM
lol - regardless of what it COULD have meant, a hoplarchy is a government of the soldiers. ;D
I'm honestly curious though - where is this first attested? It's not in Classical Greek and most of the hopl- compounds make reference to the arms carried by the soldier rather than the soldier himself. The OED's no good on it either - I assume that this is an invented Greek compound introduced in some modern language?
Quote from: Jeyar on July 12, 2010, 09:51:16 PM
a hoplarchy is a government of the soldiers
Does that mean that the Clans are a Hoplarchy? If thats the case, I would think that its not the correct direction for Charlie's new realm.
I think they are one in August's definition, too. They do tend to be tools...
You could also follow the modern rule that the less democratic you are, the more democratic terms you put in your name (Democratic People's Rebubic of Korea?) and be the "Free Democratic Electorial Republican Lyran People's Commonwealth" (since I assume Charlie intends to govern with an Iron fist, right?)
Or is that just Mongoose SMACH! comming out again?
Quote from: Iron Mongoose on July 13, 2010, 05:12:08 AM
Or is that just Mongoose SMACH! comming out again?
Never hurts to SMACH! every now and then
getting some good ideas/suggestions, keep them coming
Since the turn has been extended, I figure that doing the same for this may be a good idea
so far the suggestions are:
Steiner Protectorate
Star Commonwealth
and no offense to Jeyar on the Heroachy/Hoplarchy suggestions, which fit in a way, just don't seem to fit my raw concept, as there is the possibility that I may use the name to include all Adder territory in the IS
so, are there any other idea out there?
How about CSA - Commonwealth States of the Adders ;D
Quote from: LittleH13 on August 03, 2010, 12:47:32 PM
How about CSA - Commonwealth States of the Adders ;D
that isnt half bad...and leaves lots of room for expansion ;)
Steiner Commonwealth- it gives the people the idea that they are still a part of the Commonwealth, and that it's led by the Steiner bloodline still. Changing the name to something removed from the Steiner or Commonwealth names could make them feel to subverted by the Clan influence. But that would only be for that one section, you couldn't call all CSA holdings in the IS that...
Well, I suppose in a way you could... You could modify the leadership system of the Clan... Make a special rank, above Galaxy Commander, but below saKhan/Khan, and have that be hereditary among the Steiner Bloodname... Its not really a Clanlike idea, but then again, trying to turn that whole section into Clan worlds voids most of your basis for taking them- they don't want to be Clan, they want to be Lyrans, even if they are led by a Clanner... Something to think about at least.
Lyran Confederation/Confederacy: The definition of a Confederacy, is an association of sovereign member states that have(usually by treaty), combined several of their institutions without actually forming a new nation.
So, Charlie's Adder Commonwealth would be considered it's own state, and Clan Star Adder would be considered it's own, but they would share certain things between them, like the military, the Watch... not sure what else, but hopefully you get the idea.
Here's the wiki link, incase I didn't explain it sufficently. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation
It seems to me that this conveys what you're trying to accomplish: still Lyran, but semi-Clan at the same time.
Adder Alliance. It harkens back to the days before the Lyrans were gutted (and I assume the Elsies still think highly of Katrina), and implies a more equal footing between Clan and IS.
That's true, "Kat" was a myrtered hero in this timeline, not really shown to be what she in canon became. With Victor safely dead, she's almost sure to remain that way.
Too many Alliances... Outworlds, Horse, Raven(granted thats in the future, but still)
Well, there can be only one of those three. Looks like the Horses beat the Ravens to it... and displaced the Outworlders.
Could just call yourselves the Lyran Alliance, if you want real legitimacy for Charlemagne, too.
I think I've gotten all the ideas that I'm going to get, so am calling this "complete"
GMs/Admins, feel free to lock this thread