Rough formula guide for calculating new-build units (for new players)

[Cannonshop]

This is more or less a 'style guide' for showing WHAT that line-item Battalion, Regiment, etc. you're building would look like based off "canon" sources, using the base FP values in the FGC Rules thread

Typical structure:
Inner Sphere (ground forces, not including Comstar, Word of Blake, or Marian Hegemony):
1 lance/Platoon=4 Battlemechs, 4 Vehicles, 4 Squads of BA, or 1 platoon.
1 Company=3 Lances or Platoons (or any combination of the three)
1 Battalion=3 Companies
1 Regiment=3 Battalions

Okay, working from that structure, we can derive a few things...

The single-type 9 company regiment

All Lights 'mechs: 6.75FP (regular rating)
All Medium 'mechs: 9 FP (Regular Rating)
All Heavy 'mechs: 11.25 FP (regular rating)
All Assault 'mechs:13.5 (regular rating)

In Canon, it's hard to find any unit that is that uniform.  More often, you're going to find units with a spread of weights ranging from light scout companies, to mixed medium/heavy battalions and hard hitting Assault companies.  That in mind, then, a 9 company regiment's going to sport something closer to this:

Recon Battalion:
Light company: .75FP
Light Company: .75
Medium Company: 1 FP

Total: 2.5FP

Line or Strike Battalion:

Medium: 1FP
Heavy: 1.25 FP
Heavy: 1.25 FP

Total: 3.5 FP

Heavy/Assault element:

Heavy: 1.25FP
Heavy: 1.25 FP
Assault: 1.5 FP

Total: 5 FP

Added totals for typical IS Regiment: 11FP

The totals go downward if you're not using pure 'mech units.  Considering the popularity of 20 and 30 FP "Regiments" at Regular experience, it brings up the question of what, exactly, is driving those values up?

An Elite, All-Assaults-all-the-time Regiment, for example:

Elite experience level: 13.5*1.5=20.5

That's maxed out, the highest value (Assault units at 1.25) at the highest experience multiplier (1.5 for Elite) only yeilds the "in game typical" 20.5 FP,   Going to a 4-4-4 structure instead, gets us closer to what we typically see in invasion scenarios IN the FGC game...

4x4=16 companies per Regiment

16*1.5=40 for an assault regiment,
16*1.25=36 for a Heavy Regiment
16*1=16 (obviously) for a Medium regiment
16*.75=12 for a Light regiment.

While not exact, it DOES model more closely PLAYER preferences in force strength.

The four company/four battalion regiment, therefore, is likely the standard for the following player factions:

Lyran Alliance
Free Worlds League
Federated Suns.

With all three angling toward heavy/assault formations, based on FP value for line items stated AS Regiments in play from turn 26 onward to the present (Maybe earlier, but I only have observations FROM turn 26 onward).

Typical Clan structure:

Star=5 "Points", a Point is either a single 'mech, a 5-man squad of Battlearmor, two vehicles, or two ASF.
Binary: the Clan equivalent of a Company is either a Binary, or Trinary.  A binary is 2 Stars, a Trinary is 3, if the binary includes non-'mech assets combined with 'mechs, it is often referred to as a Nova.  (1 star of 5 'mechs and 1 star of 25 Battlesuits in the same formation is typically referred to as a Nova.)
Trinary: 3 Stars, the direct mathematical equivalent of an Inner Sphere company, assuming you treat a single star as the equivalent of an Inner Sphere Lance.
Cluster: Typically is 5 Trinaries maximum, or some combination of 5 total binary/trinary combinations.

Galaxy: Galaxies in canon can run anywhere from two Clusters, to seven.  A Galaxy is an amalgamation of clusters and there is no set Canon rule for how big or small the number of clusters involved should be.


Clusters are treated as the Clan equivalent of Regiments, therefore, we'll stick to figuring out how big a typical Cluster is going to be-the Typical being one command binary, with four Trinaries.  Since we're working with maximum FP sizes for this excercise, it will be assumed to be all front-line, Clan Regular, all 'mech formations, as the other elements are valued lower.

The example text from the FGC rules only accounts for Binaries, so multiply those values by 1.5 (3 is 1.5 times as large as 2) for Trinaries.

Light 'mech Trinary: 1.5 FP
Medium Binary:2.25
Heavy Trinary: 2.62 (round down to 2.5)
Assault Trinary: 3 FP

Cluster containing one Trinary of each: 9.5 FP

Light Cluster of Trinaries: 7.5 FP
Medium: 11.25
Heavy:12.5
Assault: 15

That's going with the biggest typical Cluster sizes, all at Clan Regular.

Most Clusters are going to contain BOTH Binaries (listed in the page on rules) and Trinaries (1.5 binary sizes)

The Clans also do not tend, in Canon, toward uniformity (the Ghost Bears with their "all Elementals Galaxy" are unusual in this regard), so it becomes somewhat necessary to adjust numbers up or down to accomodate Player habits in FGC...

Novas: 1 star of 'mechs (5 'mechs)+1 Star of elementals, fighting as a single element.  This is essentially, for FP value, a Binary as listed in the rules page, but Novas can be organized into Binaries (two) of Novas, or even Trinaries.

To configure this in FC terms for planning megamek battles, (and to account for the very high value Clusters out there-there's rumoured to be a 200 point cluster in play...)

Binary of Elementals (they don't come in smaller packages)=.25

Light Nova-Binary=1.25 FP (two stars of 'mechs, two stars of Elementals)
Medium Nova Binary= 1.75 FP
Heavy Nova Binary=2 FP
Assault Nova Binary= 2.25

For trinaries, multiply by 1.5 as follows:

rounding guideline: Round to the nearest .25 FP
Light Nova Trinary: 1.75 (round 1.875 down to keep it within the required .25 FP value)
Medium Nova Trinary: 2.5 (round down from 2.67)
Heavy Nova Trinary: 3 FP
Assault Nova Trinary:3.25 FP

A short cluster of all Nova types (Hell's Horses "Nova Cluster")= 11 FP

Clusters tend to include a "Fifth element", this is in canon (with a few exceptions) an Aerospace Binary.  This was not added to this article, as that value is handled differently under FGC rules.

Nicholas Kerensky, unlike modern Khans (well, with the exception of the Blood Spirits in canon) required a slightly different structure for Clusters in his design of the Clans.  Kerensky's organizational recipe would necessitate a drop in FP value, as it included both Armored vehicle trinaries, and Infantry trinaries (for FC purposes, this would be Battlearmour and Armor values, which are somewhat lower than pure 'mech forces.)

For details on how the Founder of the Clans wanted his armies arranged, I recommend the following books:

FM:Crusader Clans, FM Warden Clans, Sarna.net


Comstar/Word of Blake organization:

Level 1: 1 'mech, 1 platoon of infantry, 6 battlesuits, or 1 vehicle
Level II: 6 'mechs, 6 infantry platoons, 36 battlesuits (6 squads), or 6 vehicles (or some combination thereof)
LevelIII: 36 'mechs, 36 Infantry Platoons, 36 Squads of Battlearmour (6 suits per, comes out to 1,296 men), or 36 vehicles.(or some combination thereof)
Division: 6 level III's
Army: 6 Divisions

to work out the value of a Level II, take the company value on the Rules page, and divide by half-a Level II is a 'demi-company', or half the manpower/fighting powr of a standard company of IS "standard" technology.  A Comstar Level II is half of an Inner Sphere company of the same composition, assuming for ease of play that we abstract them into fairly uniform types (i.e. all 'mech, Suit or Vehicle)

Level III's are a little tiny bit easier in spite of hte higher raw numbers of individual units, because two Level II's are the same as a single IS Company (roughly, assuming relatively uniform formations of 'mechs and vehicles)  so a Level III calculates out (assuming uniformity) at 3 companies, or a single battalion.


Ref:
"Comstar: The word of Blake" sourcebook
"FM: Comstar"

[Fatebringer]

The balance of Binary to Company was very nice. 10 vs 12 with the lower having the skill advantage.

Now, I know you were talking about getting rid of the skill advantage but allowing all clan units to be built as Veteran to start instead. That brings up two questions.

If you do that, would the cost of a new unit include the Veteran training?
If a mobile unit is created, would these units be forced to pay the extra muliplier on the FP difference for from Regular to Veteran? (Example = Normal unit, 5 FP. Mobile cost, 30 RP. Same unit, but Veteran, 7.5 FP, mobile cost 32.5 or 45?)

I think this unit would also be applicable under the current rule for extra skilled units built at PF facilities.

[Daemonknight]

I'll take this opportunity to note that we're killing off DR6's thing about skill ratings for units built at PF hexes.

All units, regardless of location they are built, start as Regular, and only regular.

And while I get that this is a discussion thread, but for your points fate, understand that they're basiclly just theoretical, as the current MP system is going away, and with that change, all ground forces will be what ammounts to 'transported' now: they need to be attatched to transportation elements to be moved, otherwise they are stuck.

[Cannonshop]

The balance of Binary to Company was very nice. 10 vs 12 with the lower having the skill advantage.

Now, I know you were talking about getting rid of the skill advantage but allowing all clan units to be built as Veteran to start instead. That brings up two questions.

If you do that, would the cost of a new unit include the Veteran training?
If a mobile unit is created, would these units be forced to pay the extra muliplier on the FP difference for from Regular to Veteran? (Example = Normal unit, 5 FP. Mobile cost, 30 RP. Same unit, but Veteran, 7.5 FP, mobile cost 32.5 or 45?)

I think this unit would also be applicable under the current rule for extra skilled units built at PF facilities.

Fate, when concocting this article, I focused on 'ceterus paribus' principles, rather than going into details.  When you set your Megamek up, and the force is Clan, with a 'regular' rating, that generally means Inner Sphere Veteran numbers-so that's what I used.

The idea was to work out what the numbers translate into vis-a-vis the present system, not what may be coming since I haven't SEEN what is coming any more clearly than anyone else on the outside of the inner circle of Staff.  I made note of what is necessary to make some of the more common FP values make sense wrt the 'rulebook' cost for a company/binary, and I tried my hand at working up accurate numbers for typical/common Level III's and Trinary-based forces as an effort to help players to self-regulate and take advantage (full advantage) of the possible flexibilities of their big point-buys.

Within the current rules, because the new rules and changes aren't going to be ready for a bit longer, and we do have new players coming in with the present ruleset.

The intention, as much as anything else, is to facilitate play and maybe get players thinking more closely about WHAT those numbers really reflect on their sheets.  After doing this, I personally realized that several of my own line-items are a bit too large for their designations, and the smaller ones really aren't that tiny when you get them onto a non-simple-res playing field.

which made me feel kind of good, to be perfectly honest.

Also, I just wanted to write something that wasn't a fanfic.  Sometimes doing an analysis, and then getting comments off it, is just fun.

[Cannonshop]

To try and reply a little more concisely (and in keeping with the elimination of the non-codified experience boost from PF units)...

Cost=Cost.  If your unit is "Mobile" it's going to cost FP*6, if it's LFB mobile, it's going to run you FP*10, regardless, until such time as the movement system's actually been Changed. (at which point, you can direct issues from money spent on units that lose their ability to Dave B and Daemonknight, I've got zero involvement in the rules rebuilds they're working on, I'm not on staff, it's not my job.)

That cost, by the way, reflects (abstractly) the permanent assignment of transport assets to a unit-whether ground, or non-warship Aero...at least, for as long as it lasts it does.

and is thus, outside the scope of this article. (for an article that tries to address that, see My mobile Ground units article.  Wherein Chaosextreme demonstrates how little experience he has driving anything smaller than a successor state with a successor state's huge budget (Hint: check the pricing on command circuits, and remember=they're only one-time-use items, you then have to spend that all over again the next time you want to use them.)

Now, recalling that for Inner Sphere, 1 FP=1 Medium 'mech company, to transport 1 FP, you need at least:

1 Union class (or similar) dropship,
OR
3 Leopard Class (or similar) Dropships,
OR
1/3 of the capacity of 1 Overlord Class Dropship (presuming 3 lance companies.  For 4 lance companies, you need to add a Leopard to the Union, or 4 Leopards)

Collar space limits tell us, that you must have 1 dropship collar per dropship, period. doesn't matter what kind of dropper, or how big you can only fit one per collar.

For the purpose of transporting a 5 point ground force (a "Mobile" force), which is probably going to run you something on the order of (for making it minimum collar needs)

.25 of that is transport dropship, specifically an Overlord.
1 point of that is a six-fighter 'company' of Heavy Aerospace fighters.
3.75 of that is 3 companies of heavy 'mechs.

And a Scout class jumpship (one collar), which doesn't carry anything but the transport dropship to the target area.

That's your 'standard' mobile 5 point force, using minimum jumpship requirements.   It translates as a single heavy battalion in standard CBT terms, using Inner Sphere post-Helm Core technology.

If you want a little more mobility and coverage than that, you need to start rebalancing.

.25 for each transport dropship (per the Equipment Tables and Naval Tab)
Each transport dropper carries a set portion of your force, the more you need, the lighter each component ends up getting.

For the 4 leopard example, remember that each dropship will consume (minimum) .25 FP,

So, your dropship complement for that 'mobile' 5 FP is going to cost you 1 of your FP.
If you want to add fighters (totalling 8 airframes), that's going to run (rounded) between .25 FP for lights, and .75 FP for heavies.
For your ground force complement, then, you really only have between 4 (no aero support) and 3.25 (8 heavy fighters for aero support).

Mind also that you're going to be trying to push what amounts to a single company up in FP value between 3.25 times and 4 times the base value for a Regular, Medium, Company of 'mechs.

an Assault company at Regular only FP's out to 2 FP maximum.  This could get tricky.

I'd advise sticking with bigger quantities, just for simplicity's sake.

Let's try something easier...

4 Unions.  Same FP value, same fighter complement if you're using Unions, but now, you can actually fill it with 'base value' units for your battalion...

So, 1 FP for the dropships.
.5 for the fighters (we'll use medium fighters for this example, since they're rather more common, and the numbers round out to nice, even half-fP instead of quarters...)

You've got 48 'mech cubicles to fill-which, as examined earlier, seems to be the more common layout (4 company battalions), and you're trying to make that round out evenly to 3.5 actual ground units out of your 5 FP of overall combat power.

Light company: .75  Two of these gives 1.5
Medium Company: 1 FP, two of these is 2 FP.

Four company battalion, adds up to 3.5 dedicated ground units, plus .5 aerofighter FP, on 1 FP of transports.

What is this battalion good for? Raiding. It's not a good garrison force, it's too light to be a good invasion force except against the weakest oppostion, but it's a darned good force for staging and carrying out raids- lights and most mediums tend to be quick movers, which is necessary for getting in and out in a hurry, and it's got that built-in air-support element.

[Cannonshop]

Speculations based on Dave B's research and Daemonknight's outright statements on future changes

Remember that the FP values in the rules thread presume company or binary (IS or Clan) scales, breaking down to individual lances is difficult and involves deeper-than-quarter FP values that the rules wizards quite rightly don't want to deal with.

A 'mixed' mobile force (assuming MP is done away with, but you still want to retain some of the value of your Mobile ground units after they lose their special ability) needs the following:

1. You need to account for your dropship and jumpships.  The more willing you are to get detailed here, the easier the transition is going to be.  This means not only KNOWING what the capacities on your listed transport-type droppers are, you need to make sure you have the right ones, in the right places on the table, to make use of them.

Due to the nature of HOW the tables work, if you're a big user of vehicles, you need to have vehicle cubicles, which means needing the right variants in the 6, 7, and 8 columns for your smaller raiding party forces.  Otherwise you're going to be screwed when you send out small units, because there won't be enough ship-space available to move them until you get into jumpers that can haul multiple REGIMENTS due to the number of collars required.

2. Remember that if you want to keep the 'mobile' character of the unit, dropships cost FP.  Transports run .25 FP each, regardless of type, and they'll need to be accounted for in your FP when you post your raid, invasion, or battle order on the forum.  Ditto for any integral fighter elements you put in.  I'll always recommend taking dropships that carry fighters as well as ground units, and I'll always recommend adding the fighter complement into the mix- They're darned useful to have.

3 remember that you have to squeeze into a value-this goes back to 1, really-if your most common dropship is a Leopard, then you're probably best served running heavy on the Assault class for ground units, and Monoliths for transports.  Otherwise, get ready to either cut forces down, or type in reams of new entries to cover your FP values after the transition.  You NEED company-level transports to make the values work out.  Smaller stuff may be more common in canon, but when it comes to this game, the base unit of measure, is the Battlemech Company.  Once Movement is taken out of the Abstract, diverging from that 'base' is going to mean you need to do a LOT of study, and adjustment, or your numbers will be worthless.

[chaosxtreme]

Or in the case of the Free Worlds League the base unit is the Battlemech Division.

Fear our n33d 4 b33r