OOC Thread

[GraeGor]

Perhaps.  Thank goodness it was the intent of the 2 Faction Heads to merge into one viable entity.  Split, the Wolves were not in position to excercise their righful place in the panthean. 

does that mean that we'll have to house train them again, or lay down papers in the GC chambers

[NVA]

Perhaps.  Thank goodness it was the intent of the 2 Faction Heads to merge into one viable entity.  Split, the Wolves were not in position to excercise their righful place in the panthean. 

does that mean that we'll have to house train them again, or lay down papers in the GC chambers

Hey, both Wolves share another thing in common.  Distaste for the Adders

For one, I am grateful for the break for the new ordersheet, since, we have to merge two factions and then decide how to deal with some issues.  And, somehow, all of our allies seem to have disappeared from the GC, one way or another.  Only one I am not sure about is the current status of the Horses and what will happen with the Bears.

[JediBear]

But, again, we did not challenge for leadership of either Clan. We challenged for leadership of the united Clan.

Which does not have a right to representation in the Grand Council, since it cannot inherit it from the new Clan and the old Clan stands Abjured by GM fiat.

 Marco Hall and Ivan Kerensky were both elected Khan of Clan Wolf.

Both claims were problematic as understood in Clan Law. Marco Hall stands Abjured and so cannot be a Khan. Ivan Kerensky is not a member of that Clan Wolf and thus has no claim to its Khanship, which therefore remains vacant, as no warriors exist to represent the extinct Wolf Clan.

 Both sought to be the ONLY Khan of Clan Wolf.  The Wolves do not have precedent to work off of.  And, in essence, what has happened is that the victor has proven that their path was right and that they were the rightful leader of Clan Wolf all along.  So, perhaps, the wording used was wrong.  A trial of refusal over the others claim to being Khan of Clan Wolf.  

Well, no, because the Trial of Refusal is something specific and this is something else entirely. The GL's interpretation is that your Trial of Whatever is functionally a Trial of Possession and that the outcome of a private Grievance also rides upon it (this is legal, as parties have a right to use any means they like to resolve a dispute by mutual agreement) and so all Possessable assets of Clan Wolf (Planets, Facilities, Forces, Blood Lines) would have been transferred in accordance to Clan Law into a body with no representation in the GC. The lack of any warriors or assets remaining in the GC Clan Wolf would make it an extinct Clan.

As Commander in Chief of the Clans at War, the ilKhan has the right to prevent or void anyTrial deemed detrimental to the prosecution of the war. In failing to comply with that order, the GC Wolves would be guilty of Treason.

To gain legal control over the Wolf Khanships, the Exiles would have needed to petition the Grand Council for a Trial of Absorption.

Still, you are right, in canon it has never occurred.  Here, it has.  It has precedent and it was supported by the Grand Council.

The Clans are not a common-law state. Precedent does not therefore make new law. Just because the GC once seated a man with no legal right to a Khanship does not mean that they are duty-bound to do so in the future.

A?  Guest facility?  Try guest facilities on 5 different worlds.  Try forces helping defend most of those worlds, unless that has changed.  We were the FRRs HPG network for a long while.  The relationship was much closer than it seems you were told.  Not that that can't change.  And that was my point.  My focus is to remain as close to canon as new things allow my faction, while still having fun.  But, we too have added new features to our clan to survive.

People don't tell me things, even though I've been making frantic requests for information to everyone I can think of since turn 38.

Do you want to write up a briefing to get me up to speed?

And that goes for anyone else sleeping with major RD characters, keeping facilities on our lands, or (especially) keeping military forces on our lands too.

Perhaps.  Thank goodness it was the intent of the 2 Faction Heads to merge into one viable entity.  Split, the Wolves were not in position to excercise their righful place in the panthean. 

does that mean that we'll have to house train them again, or lay down papers in the GC chambers

No worries. As of this time, no representatives of this new Wolf Clan will be permitted access to the Hall of the Khans.

[GraeGor]

Hey, both Wolves share another thing in common.  Distaste for the Adders

well, at least we're consistent

[NVA]

JediBear - Let me get caught up.  I can only speak on the Exiles side of things.  The GC Wolves have other deals with you.  I will copy silentwarrior, as we need to get on a common page anyway.

GraeGor - Yes, you are consitently slimy. 

All Others - I ask that you send any deals you have with either Wolf faction to BOTH silentwarrior and I.  The GMs should be copied as well, so they can police any concerns of 'cheating'.  I trust there will not be issues.

[JediBear]

I should note that I have been offered a dissenting opinion that claims your Trial of Whatever is completely illegal, since it replicates a Trial of Absorption but is not authorized by the Grand Council.

[GraeGor]

GraeGor - Yes, you are consitently slimy. 

slimy, yet successful in most endeavors

and it's difficult to argue against that success



though OOC, Im glad to see the Wolves one Clan again...IC, somewhat glad, yet suspicious of the timing

[NVA]

Perhaps.  But, since the two bodies affected <Clan Wolf and Wolf in Exile> have no reason to file a complaint, then there is no complaint to be filed in the Grand Council.  Outcome being IGNORED by the Grand Council, well, gee, that is NOTHING new to the Exiles.  The Falcons abjured something they did not possess and pulled a de facto absorption and it stuck.  So...Actually........

So, yes, the GC may not recognise it.  And, to date, I don't know if anyone will do anything with the GC or not.

I should note that I have been offered a dissenting opinion that claims your Trial of Whatever is completely illegal, since it replicates a Trial of Absorption but is not authorized by the Grand Council.

[GreyJaeger]

That may be a false statement. IIRC, it was during the first meeting of the GC after the "Absorption" that Vlad brought up the sham ToA, and then challenged and killed Crichell, in effect Refusing the whatever it actually was. So technically, the GC never declared one way or the other on the subject. Been a while since I read that book.

Perhaps.  But, since the two bodies affected <Clan Wolf and Wolf in Exile> have no reason to file a complaint, then there is no complaint to be filed in the Grand Council.  Outcome being IGNORED by the Grand Council, well, gee, that is NOTHING new to the Exiles.  The Falcons abjured something they did not possess and pulled a de facto absorption and it stuck.  So...Actually........

So, yes, the GC may not recognise it.  And, to date, I don't know if anyone will do anything with the GC or not.

I should note that I have been offered a dissenting opinion that claims your Trial of Whatever is completely illegal, since it replicates a Trial of Absorption but is not authorized by the Grand Council.

[NVA]

They ignored it.  But, Vlad did not dispute the absorption.  He formed a new clan BECAUSE of it.  It was how he cleaned the Wolves.  He killed Crichell over his lack of combat experience, etc.  I believe it has been officially stated that in canon, the issue was ignored and each clan formed its own opinion.  That is why the Vipers have a decent opinion of the Exiles in canon, the Horses worked with us, the Wolves maintained contact, the Bears continued to trial normally against us, etc.  Few clans truly 'hated' the Exiles in canon.  Most just could not be bothered.

That may be a false statement. IIRC, it was during the first meeting of the GC after the "Absorption" that Vlad brought up the sham ToA, and then challenged and killed Crichell, in effect Refusing the whatever it actually was. So technically, the GC never declared one way or the other on the subject. Been a while since I read that book.

Perhaps.  But, since the two bodies affected <Clan Wolf and Wolf in Exile> have no reason to file a complaint, then there is no complaint to be filed in the Grand Council.  Outcome being IGNORED by the Grand Council, well, gee, that is NOTHING new to the Exiles.  The Falcons abjured something they did not possess and pulled a de facto absorption and it stuck.  So...Actually........

So, yes, the GC may not recognise it.  And, to date, I don't know if anyone will do anything with the GC or not.

I should note that I have been offered a dissenting opinion that claims your Trial of Whatever is completely illegal, since it replicates a Trial of Absorption but is not authorized by the Grand Council.

[JediBear]

NVA is correct. Technically, the GC never actually considered the matter. Canonically, the reason why is less than clear. It's been stated that the GC was poised to consider the matter, but that the GC lost interest after the new Wolf Clan came into being.

[NVA]

NVA is correct. Technically, the GC never actually considered the matter. Canonically, the reason why is less than clear. It's been stated that the GC was poised to consider the matter, but that the GC lost interest after the new Wolf Clan came into being.

But, to be absolutely fair to everyone, one of SJW's edicts was that the abjuration was legal.  There was still some question over WHICH abjuration.  And, I believe the process for me to return was to fight the Falcons, but they never accepted my challenge.  Then, big wars started and we have never returned, cause the GC became corrupted ANYWAY and we were able to gain SL membership.

[Marlin]

Could we please stop talking about SJW's actions? That guy is one of the few that can enrage me in the internet. His Gming was absolutely despicable.



I am too, interested in what this brings, at first glance, it is anothe strike against the Clans and may take out the Wolf Clan forever. As Clan, I mean.

[NVA]

...Wolf Clan forever. As Grand Council Clan, I mean.

Fixed...As for 'him', I agree.  But, there is relevance to what happened back then.

[JediBear]

...Wolf Clan forever. As Grand Council[/i] Clan, I mean.

Fixed...As for 'him', I agree.  But, there is relevance to what happened back then.

And Fixed for you. There is no difference between a Grand Council Member and a Khan.