OOC Thread

[LittleH13]

Just to clarify things a little bit here. The post in the INN and in the Chatterweb went up almost immediately after the speech that Ledo gave. The INN one is unkown where it came from the Chatterweb message came from Grummium and not Tamar. The user did not attempt to hide the location of the hosting planet of the connection.

As for this other post I am going to look now at it and will make a ruling soon.

[Dave Baughman]

On the Marco Hall situation, it seems to me unlikely that any faction would be able to conceal a change in its top leadership for any length of time without actually spending RP to run a Dissemeniate Domestic Disinformation mission. If it is the intention of WIE to do this in turn 41 then NVA probably has a point about the thread being premature. However, if the WIE is not going to make a roll for this than I see no reason to not let the post stand.

In other words: NVA, please send me a PM if you are going to try to conceal the change of leadership.

Also, Josh is telling me he is opening up the turn 41 cyclical RP threads, so please move your RP to those. I will be unlocking the GC in a moment with a resolution to the issue regarding the last RP that was posted there.

[NVA]

I am not attempting to conceal it.  I asked OOC for IRL time to post the announcement.  First, there has been no change yet.  Secondly, I have not  had time.  It will be posted and public.  This was an OOC request for time and courtesy to allow me a chance to make my posts.  If that is asking more than is reasonable, my apologies.

[Dave Baughman]

I am not attempting to conceal it.  I asked OOC for IRL time to post the announcement.  First, there has been no change yet.  Secondly, I have not  had time.  It will be posted and public.  This was an OOC request for time and courtesy to allow me a chance to make my posts.  If that is asking more than is reasonable, my apologies.

I guess I am confused then - I was under the impression that Marco Hall had stepped down as Khan based on the post you made in response to Hall being elected Commanding General.

Was this in error?

If so, then yes - the details of what you posted in the Star League Council would not be general knowledge (indeed everything else would not be general knowledge anyway).

[NVA]

Marco made his announcement to the SL Council only, so far.  So, that statement should be private, per my understanding.  The rest of the storyline still has to be done, which will include the announcements that people will be able to respond to.  Again, this is an OOC timing issue more than IC.  I am where I don't have great access to do the posts...Or time.

I am not attempting to conceal it.  I asked OOC for IRL time to post the announcement.  First, there has been no change yet.  Secondly, I have not  had time.  It will be posted and public.  This was an OOC request for time and courtesy to allow me a chance to make my posts.  If that is asking more than is reasonable, my apologies.

I guess I am confused then - I was under the impression that Marco Hall had stepped down as Khan based on the post you made in response to Hall being elected Commanding General.

Was this in error?

If so, then yes - the details of what you posted in the Star League Council would not be general knowledge (indeed everything else would not be general knowledge anyway).

[Dave Baughman]

Marco made his announcement to the SL Council only, so far.  So, that statement should be private, per my understanding.  The rest of the storyline still has to be done, which will include the announcements that people will be able to respond to.  Again, this is an OOC timing issue more than IC.  I am where I don't have great access to do the posts...Or time.

I am not attempting to conceal it.  I asked OOC for IRL time to post the announcement.  First, there has been no change yet.  Secondly, I have not  had time.  It will be posted and public.  This was an OOC request for time and courtesy to allow me a chance to make my posts.  If that is asking more than is reasonable, my apologies.

I guess I am confused then - I was under the impression that Marco Hall had stepped down as Khan based on the post you made in response to Hall being elected Commanding General.

Was this in error?

If so, then yes - the details of what you posted in the Star League Council would not be general knowledge (indeed everything else would not be general knowledge anyway).

OK, I think I see why people were confused then. A lot of folks (myself included) took your post to indicate that Hall had, in fact, already stepped down as Khan. If he is still Khan as of the start of Turn 41, then it is true no one outside the SL Council would know he has said he will do so.

[Daemonknight]

Effective immediately, I have relinquished my position as Khan of Clan Wolf.

How can be possibly still be Khan in turn 41, if this is in the turn 40 SL Council thread??

[Dave Baughman]

Effective immediately, I have relinquished my position as Khan of Clan Wolf.

How can be possibly still be Khan in turn 41, if this is in the turn 40 SL Council thread??

OK, this is what I get for not checking back threads before posting. NVA, can you please PM me and Josh and give us the full details of what is happening before I insert my foot any further into my mouth?

[NVA]

*sigh*

Let me try again.  Real life has prevented me from time to do the IC posts.  If players are so eager to push forward that they cannot wait, then ignore my OOC request.  Just don't be surprised if the end result invalidates your posts before I have time.  It is a holiday weekend and I am unable to post long IC RPs.  I simply asked for an OOC courtesy.

[Daemonknight]

Nobody is posting anything, we're just trying to figure out what is actually known or unknown.

[chaosxtreme]

You see you have your known unknowns, you have your unknown knowns.

But the really tricky part is there are these unknown unknowns that are out there to bite you.

My read?

- Election to Commanding General is out there.

- Absorption trial and its results are out there.

- Marco Hall stepping down? not out there.


----------------

But lets be honest...it doesn't matter or change much of anything.

Clan WiE took over Clan Wolf. Their leadership is taking over wither its Fetradl or Hall it changes little. Hall being Commanding General will gain the WiE no cred with the Grand Council. His stepping down from Clan Wolf Khan will effect a Grand Council vote not at all.

Can someone really tell me how whether or not Hall steps down will matter even a wit to how the Clans or the Inner Sphere react?

As the FWL he stepped down and...I didn't care as I expect him to show favoritism to the Wolves anyway.

As a Blood Spirit. The WiE are still just half a step above the not named. and 5 steps down from a freeborn. I'd be voting for it. Well if I could vote right now, it wouldn't effect my vote at all.


Nothing personal. And I am sure I will love reading your RP. But your not going to talk your way out of what I'm sure is going to be a couple of stacks of doom in the Clan Home Worlds and in the Inner Sphere. So why should everyone hold up until then?

My condolences to you on whatever real life concerns are confronting you I just don't see how anything your going to post is going to effect the general direction of what happens next. Might make it go from a Trial of Absorption to a Trial of Annihilation but I think we are well past the "Give the Wolves the benefit of the doubt" territory.

[Cannonshop]

At the risk of inflaming some players against me, I'm going to say it...

It's easier to go after the Wolves, or the (Fragmented) Lyrans, or the UIW, than it is to go after the Terrans/Blood/Not-Named.  Easier.  Just like it is easier to go after someone else's homeworld holdings, than to come to the Inner Sphere, make the Hostile Transit rolls, and go after the Not Named directly, or to cut "Hunting" orders to go after their forces in the field, or to cut Intel orders to locate their forces...

Easier. Because while the in-character mission might be to finish the Annihilation, the OOC mission, is to rack up big occupation zones as cheaply as possible, while avoiding a repeat of the visit by Apollyon and his horror-movie butcher crew upon the Falcons a few turns ago.

(yeah, I read the Clan sections, including the IC stuff...)

Only, so far, ONE clan (Star Adder) is doing this as an in-character "Plan" (they were doing it BEFORE news of the Not-Named was broken), notably, they've treated against forces when I ran them, with actual Clan behaviours-including offering the chance of Honourable battle, and Hegira when orders from the IlKhan made it necessary to break their bid.

Likewise with the "New guy" in the Jade Falcons (Daemonknight), who displayed the strict honour the Falcons had in Canon, when he honoured the request by the Baker 3 Task force's interim commander to withdraw honourably when circumstances dictated that they abort their invasion of that world.

Crusaders acting like...Crusaders, instead of...what I saw in the Grand Council threads as a reader, is rare, I wish it had some tangible reward in-game, because honestly what I see from most of the Grand Council members/players is more suited to the Inner Sphere than the Clans.

I have no doubt that this turn, when the orders are cut, the Wolves are going to face OMGWTFPOWNED doomstacks with neither Zellbriggen, nor quarter offered or accepted...because what's easier, is to go after the Wolves, than the Terrans. (just as it's easier to go after everyone else, than the Terrans.)

What has been conspicuous, in fact, is the active avoidance of Terran/Not Named forces, not the pursuit of them.  THIS will continue, because the Players are reluctant to risk their forces knowing full well that their Clan Brothers will stab them in the back...and do so with glee and self-congratulation.

only the Adders, so far, have shown any strategy to what they're doing, and that strategy has more to do with pre-revelation policies, and has netted them serious benefits (Doubling your OZ without firing a shot is a serious net benefit, obtaining direct access to Inner Sphere data and communications that are current to help your Watch find their targets? serious benefit.  Gaining proximity to Terra that allows something more than a one-shot raid? serious benefit.  They're the only Crusader Clan in striking range, and they don't have to fight through half the LC to get there-they've gotten it without firing a shot, which means they've got more force to apply to the root of the problem before the TH can pull its fleets from the front to defend their Homeland...)

Notably, their strategies have NOT been Orbombing cities, using Nukes, or slaughtering civilians-they show an awareness of public relations that is, at times, almost scarily effective, and they think their moves out in ways that focus for best results rather than just lashing out at anyone that offends them, could offend them, or might offend them.  Had they acted in the butcher's manner as previous Falcon players (who aren't playing Falcons anymore since the faction's been so devastated) did, likely the map for Turn 41 would have more Rimjob Red, FWL Purple, or Skye Green...or even Arc Royal blue, instead of a Clan Collaborator mini-state running from Alarion to Coventry and containing much of the LC's remaining industrial base.  Graegor and Dis have shown not only the personality characteristics, but fleshed out the Canon reference to Clanners being "Strategic Geniuses" (Invading Clans sourcebook, Warriors of Kerensky...)  Their strategy has WORKED, and they may well have Terra checkmated all on their own while the bulk of the other Clans are still backbiting or recovering from prior, less effective management.

Daemonknight's picked up my admiration-he didn't have to do what he did in the aftermath of Baker 3, he acted not only honorably in the tradition of a Crusader, but with practicality of someone who's got enough strategic awareness to 'get' why Hegira exists in the first place, he conserved his forces for the REAL enemy to come, instead of wasting them on vanity.  Very Falcon, in my opinion.


NOw, as for myself, I've probably just written my own faction's epitaph, likely a 'coming attraction', this turn or next.  But all the above, is why I don't play Clan in the FGC-by temperament, I'm a Crusader player, but I'm not the sort of player I have just blasted with this rant-The Grand Crusade is a war of Ideals, Dogmas, and Beliefs, while I don't share those beliefs in real life, I understand how Zealots work, and they aren't all unthinkingly vicious, treacherous, or out for number one.  Were I playing a Clan, I'd be ass-deep in challenges by the second turn.

[tassa_kay]

Well, nothing like someone looking down their nose at you at three in the morning to make you take what they have to say at all seriously.  Maybe people should stop trying to tell others, either directly or (in this case) indirectly, how to run their factions.  It's the height of arrogance, especially to do so at such unnecessary length.  Just FYI.

If that wasm't the intent of what you meant to actually say, well, I can hardly be faulted for reading it that way in the first place.  I have my issues with the way some people play their factions, for sure, but I don't think I'd go on a page-long diatribe analyzing it for... what WAS the point of that, exactly?

[Daemonknight]

Don't take this as overtly hostile Canon, but you have no idea what you are talking about if you say that the attacks in the Inner Sphere have no strategy behind them. There are long discussions each turn about what targets Clans are considering, which of the 'primary' targets(which i cannot obviously name here) are going to be considered and addressed this turn and whatnot.

To say that if the Clans were to go after the Wolves because its 'easier' than going after the Terrans, rather than for legitimate reasons, is unfair. Look at what the Exiles did: they spat in the face of everything the Clans stand for: they essentially fought a Trial of Refusal against the original Abjuration of the Exiles. While thats all well and good, all that means is that the Exiles would still be considered a Clan, and not the Inner Sphere lapdogs that they have been. So, by winning the Trial, they overturn the Abjuration: cool. However, the rest of the crap they added on is what is insulting and downright unClanlike.

I) The force Clan Wolf to be combined with the Exiles: there is no Trial to compell action within Clan society. There are Trials for status, Trials to determine rank, to determine honor, but nothing to compel action, and certinly nothing to force a Clan's warriors to integrate with an Inner Sphere power.

II) They show complete and utter disregard for the methods of determining the leadership of the Clan. If Clan Wolf and Clan Wolf-in-Exile are now one, that makes them Clan Wolf still. Whoever Clan Wolf's Khan was would be the Khan of the newly united Clan, unless killed, in which case it would pass to the saKhan. If both are dead, it passes to the Clan's Warrior Council to elect a new one from among the Bloodnamed warrior's, which would now include the Exiles. However, instead of doing that, Marco Hall didn't even make a token attempt at alluding to that, he instead just declared himself to be the Khan.  Basiclly, Marco Hall took a respectable Clan, merged it with a dishonored scion of a clan that tried to claim legitimacy, and then turned it into a Successor House-Clan.

So, the GC Clans have more than enough IC reasons to be morally, ethiclly, philisophiclly and every other lly insulted and feel like they've been slighted: and in Clan society, that demands a response. So, it would be worse to see NO response from the aggressive Clans.


On the subject of 'avoiding' the Terrans: The problem that faces many Clan forces, isn't that we don't want to run intel missions to find forces: that happens often enough. The problem is that we don't always have forces sizeable enough to face them. It makes no sense, even for a Clanner, to try and face down a Hegemoney fleet outnumbered 2: or 3:1, especially those of us with less than optimal naval assets.

I guess CS, that you are looking in from the outside without the full view of what goes on behind the scenes, and that is why it might look as if the behaviour is unClan-like. Its ammassing forces to combat the massive forces that the Terran fleets possess. So please please please: don't bash the Clans for not being Clan-like when it comes to persuing the Terrans...on that subject, I have to say, you really just don't know what you are talking about...but thats because you can't, because you have no access to the info that would dispell your assumptions.

As to the GC...well, I'm working on that. Hopefully I can get that under control.

[LittleH13]

Guys please tone it down a notch or two here. We do not need OOC tempers flaring. This is just a game and if you feel that someone's tactics in game are not the way you would play then leave it at that and let them make the "mistakes" that you feel they are making. Just remember that everyone has different strategies for different situations and not all these strategies are out in the open for all to see.


-Josh