OOC Thread

[JediBear]

To be fair, the same logic might lead one to say that England was a wholly owned subsidiary of France on the eve of the Hundred Years War;

I'll admit, I don't see it. In what way was Edward III a vassal of the French Crown?

whether this logic holds depends on the position of Charlemagne Steiner himself.

And at this time he is a fully vetted member of the Clan Star Adder Warrior Caste.

One could present the case that becoming Archon would dissolve his formal loyalties to the Adder Khanate - I don't see that happening, but I think that it's not, on the surface, an implausible argument.

Actually, it's frankly absurd. He's an Adder warrior until he or the Warrior Council decide he's not.

It is Grey. I can quite honestly develop a fully rational logical argument that the Wolves are not abjured under Clan Law.

Sure you can. Because no body with the right to Abjure them ever actually did.

I can develop a completely rational logical argument that the Wolves are abjured under Clan Law.

No, you can't. You can try, and you can think you did, but you can't. There's really absolutely no legal basis for it whatsoever.

Which is why the Clans in canon tend to generally ignore it.

[JediBear]

Understood.  The point is, the 'grey' area is what makes RP work.  A game like this, if only black or white, would not be any fun.  It is in the varying interpretations of things that we get conflict and issues to work with.

I disagree entirely. It's actually that thinking that makes things absolutely no fun for a fair number of us. RP comes from a lot of places, and the only kind of RP that really comes from perceived Greyness is bad RP.

[NVA]

Very good.  I recognize and acknowledge our difference of opinion.

Understood.  The point is, the 'grey' area is what makes RP work.  A game like this, if only black or white, would not be any fun.  It is in the varying interpretations of things that we get conflict and issues to work with.

I disagree entirely.

[august]

I'll admit, I don't see it. In what way was Edward III a vassal of the French Crown?

This is pretty far from my expertise, so perhaps I am in the wrong, but the French Kings were still owed fealty by the English Kings according to the latter's inherited titles as Dukes of Normandy, at least in theory. In practice that didn't really play out, but it helped make things unhappy between England and France during the period.

[JediBear]

This is pretty far from my expertise, so perhaps I am in the wrong, but the French Kings were still owed fealty by the English Kings according to the latter's inherited titles as Dukes of Normandy, at least in theory.

I see. No, that's not correct.

While England was a French vassal state under William I, he divided his titles among his children upon his death. When his son Henry reclaimed Normandy, it was through force. Further, Henry III had renounced his claim to Normandy.

[august]

That's what I get for relying on memories of a book read years ago and more unfortunately, wikipedia.

[Iron Mongoose]

I think for a time after that, during some of the crusades as memory serves, the French did insist that the English kings were normans and so their vassals anyway.  I would speculate that at the time, the French, who had not had the sort of millitary and political setbacks at the hands of the English that were to come, still harbored a notion that they could actualy make something of it if push came to shove, but Europe has never been my strong point.  I just remember a book on the crusades noting that there was tension on the 3rd because the King of England, while nominaly subserviant to the French King, was in all actuality not only totaly independant but a bit wealthier and more power.

[chaosxtreme]

To be fair, the same logic might lead one to say that England was a wholly owned subsidiary of France on the eve of the Hundred Years War;

I'll admit, I don't see it. In what way was Edward III a vassal of the French Crown?

In retaliation, Philip VI declared on 24 May 1337 that Edward had forfeited Aquitaine for rebellion and disobedience. Thus began the Hundred Years' War.

One cannot rebel against an equal. Now this has largely been attributed to only referring to English Lands in France. But had Philip or his heirs been more successful they would have applied it to all English Lands rendering the King of England a vassal of France.

Possibly citing that William the 1st was infact a French Duke at one point he promised tribute to the then King of France for support in claiming the Throne of England.

Mind you the King of France in the above scenario must conquer the channel and then England.

In the words of Fredrick The Great "First I shall take later I shall hire scholars to prove why I was right."

[tassa_kay]

Ugh, all this European history... can we talk about big stompy robots and the factions that make them again? 

[DXM]

Mongoose SMACH!

[chaosxtreme]

Ugh, all this European history... can we talk about big stompy robots and the factions that make them again? 

But...but...I haven't even gotten to the Vassa's yet!

Fine

STOMP STOMP STOMP

Urbie power!

STOMP STOMP STOMP

[tassa_kay]

... Urbie... power?

...

...

...

You're Abjured from the Clan, Chaos. 

[august]

You know, you can build two Urbanmechs IIc for the cost of one of your silly Crimson Hawks. For the Blood Spirit bargain hunter who is willing to sacrifice fashion for firepower, perhaps Urbie power is the way to go.

[JediBear]

doubtful.

Even for Blood Spirits, I think quality warriors are at more of a premium than that.

Plus, It's actually hard to beat protos for cost-performance.

[tassa_kay]

You know how I feel about the Crimson Hawk (i.e., it doesn't really exist, it's just a really bad April Fool's joke).  I just don't like Urbies whatsoever.  They're ugly as sin and they don't stand out to me.

... hey, wait, they'll fit right in!