OOC Thread

[JediBear]

So, to be clan again, we have to join a group that supports genocide, use of orbital bombardment freely, the use of nuclear weapons, and generally commit the same atrocities that the barbarian lords of the succession wars did?

I see no reason the Grand Council must answer to that description. The Exiles have willfully surrendered their voice in shaping what defines Clan.

  The Grand Council is a poor definition of clan anymore.

Neither you nor the Wolves in Exile have any right to judge that that is so. The only extant body with any right to even consider that question is the Grand Council itself.

the IS clans are no more and, as such, we see NO clans in the future. 

This is correct. There were no Clans before the Grand Council, and there can be no Clans without it. But let us not consider what is happening in neverland. In this timeline, the IS Clans are members in good standing of the Grand Council. (everyone else is bandits.)

Remember, clan is a way of life, not a membership in a political body.

That way of life includes membership in that political body. Without it, you can say you're Clan, but that just makes you wrong. You have no right to expect the actual Clans (of which you are not one) to treat you as anything more than bandits.

Bandits who make a pretense at being Clan are still Bandits, and fairly treated as such.

[NVA]

OOC - I disagee with you completely on what defines clan.  But, that is the OOC understanding of the clans as written by the creaters and writers.

[Lord Harlock]

As much as I enjoy the debate on what is Clan because as we all know, there were at least at one point twenty different definitions on what it really meant to be Clan. For instance, the Steel Vipers want to work with the House Lords to recreate the Star League, and at the same time, they hate all freebirths which all House Lords are. Well maybe not Sun-Tzu Liao since he was planned to have specific genes, but he's dead in this reality anyway. How in the world, they ever would get that to work is a mystery to all. It's logic like that lead their first Khan, who was a hot cyborg I have to admit, to kill Nicholas' wife and expect Nick to just fall into her arms like so much puddy.

Honestly, the only thing that makes one a Clan in my eyes is if they decide to practice and govern by Nick's society standards. And on that note, I will say that everyone and their dog was responsible for the end of the First Star League. But most if not all faults can be laid to rest on the feet of one man, Stefan Amaris. So in the spirit of StarLord, let us all go cut the heads off of Amaris pretenders just like that one famous Steel Viper, Dawn.

And lastly, I enjoyed Marlin saying that the Wolverines are on Terra. So that would mean they are the ilClan, right? (Note, I'm kidding because the Blood have basically stopped calling themselves Wolverines years ago as they should."

[GraeGor]

I do not believe the IS used OrBomb or Nukes until this cycle.  And, it isn't all that surprising for them.

ummm...that is flat out wrong, they have used OB prior to this cycle, a few times against Clans, a few times against one another

the Exiles should be holding everyone to higher standards, and those that fail to meet those standards should be at least hit with Trade Sanctions

And, part of my problem all along has been the players ignoring canon when the formed their opinions. 

what info I have for canon Adder views on the Exiles is generally positive, but views, like philosophies and Leaders, can change over time, so I went with what I was informed at the time I joined, because I didnt have access to the same information then that I do now, and have been going with that...though mellowing it a bit as time passed

under Vlad, the Wolves hated the Exiles, yet I bet that attitude has changed several times during the FGC

at one time it appears that the Ravens and Adders got along, yet after the Burrock Absorption, the Ravens may have started seeing the Adders a a greater threat...and it is possible that during the FGC that attitude may have mellowed as well

so your complaints of "going against canon" no longer applies, and hasnt applied for at least 30 Cycles/5+ years In Game Time in my opinion, for I believe that since my becoming a player, EVERY Clan has changed in some way (possible exception being the Spirits), and those changes will have altered their outlook to some degree...some positive towards the Exiles, some negative

and Im willing to bet that if an IS leader comes to power, one who has a hatred for a neighboring IS Nation that is even greater than his/her feelings for the Clans, there may well be a second Front elsewhere involving ONLY IS Nations....

[Lord Harlock]

and Im willing to bet that if an IS leader comes to power, one who has a hatred for a neighboring IS Nation that is even greater than his/her feelings for the Clans, there may well be a second Front elsewhere involving ONLY IS Nations....

i.e. the Tikonov War where the Draconis Combine instead of attacking the Bears, some other Clan, or even the Lyrans attacked the Federated Suns because it looked more fun especially when they could attacked with the Capellans. The rolls and the megamek games just didn't work out.

[JediBear]

Honestly, the only thing that makes one a Clan in my eyes is if they decide to practice and govern by Nick's society standards

A requirement of those standards is and was membership in and allegiance to the Grand Council, the body which unites and defines the Clans.

And lastly, I enjoyed Marlin saying that the Wolverines are on Terra. So that would mean they are the ilClan, right?

No. The Wolverines were Abjured and are not Clan. Even if they were, the concept of ilClan and the conditions for granting it were lawfully Refused by a so-called Star League task force led by Victor Ian Steiner-Davion.

[Fatebringer]

at one time it appears that the Ravens and Adders got along, yet after the Burrock Absorption, the Ravens may have started seeing the Adders a a greater threat...and it is possible that during the FGC that attitude may have mellowed as well

After the burrocks absorption our allies the Blood Spirits (Who had the grudge against the Burrocks) didn't like the Adders. That and you have to consider, both of our toumans (CBS and CSR) were very small still, and now the Adders are bigger then they were before. I think concern for being absorbed made certain people unite to keep the bigger unit from absorbing them too. The Ravens were weak for a long time.

Player attitudes in the FGC can very greatly from how I envisioned their clan. Everyone knows that I try to be very political still and opportunistic. I feel this is me playing my clan well. But I see Hellions, Vipers and Adders, not being what I would call "Crusaderish". Their mellowing has made it possible to arrange deals, and commerce is something the Ravens repsect. Aslo success. The Star Adder and Bear territories have grown, while Wolf and Jade Falcon continue to shrink. Between this and our recent growth, Clan Snow Raven is worried less about the Star Adders then they used to be, even after they absorbed the Cobras.

[Marlin]

Interesting points by all.

Fate: I think your definition of Crusaderish equals dumb, eh? Charging right into the IS and battling short and brutal till the appropriate Clan is dead. Well, blame it on the influence of Philippe Lienet, he started being diplomatic towards nearly all Clans early. He is guilty!

Harlock: I think an Annihilation includes Abjuration and then a step beyond. So I guess ilClan wont be the correct title. Cancer would fit it more. 

NVA: I already stated that I respect the WiX for doing so well, well, until now But I think I am more on JediBear's side when it comes to defining what Clan is.

BTW, I like being reviewed in the performance of my Clan, I dont doubt there are enough that dont like the Hellions now. But I can live with that. I think much can be explained.

[Fatebringer]

By crusaderish, I mean more aggressive. The WiE is more agressive then the our Clan Wolf, and that's a complete reversal of fotune. The Vipers on Hellgate were doing retailiatory attacks, but have cooled off again after that. The Hellions...have been pretty aggressive I guess. Their hunting of Bandits was very nice, and their zeal at getting into Sudeten was refreshing.

[NVA]

Crusader vs Warden is not about agressive and passive, in my take.  Crusader to me is one who believes in burning the IS and rebuilding from the ashes.  Wardens, meanwhile, want to protect the IS.  Now, there are various temperatures.  So, WiE are TRYING to be agressive in defending our claims, but, are not seeking to overthrow the IS.

[Fatebringer]

You're claims seem to be other people's claims 

[NVA]

You're claims seem to be other people's claims 

Isn't that the clan way? 

[Dave Baughman]

Not to distract from the traditional FGC Clan smack-talk, but I just wanted to let everyone know that the Flashpoint monthly reports are 99% done, so I will be downloading the orders for turn 38 and starting on monthly reports tomorrow.

I will try to get results to everyone ASAP, ideally by Friday.

[chanman]

So, to be clan again, we have to join a group that supports genocide, use of orbital bombardment freely, the use of nuclear weapons, and generally commit the same atrocities that the barbarian lords of the succession wars did?  The Grand Council is a poor definition of clan anymore. 

But very true to the First Star League! It's the thought that counts!

[GraeGor]

But very true to the First Star League! It's the thought that counts!

and the second....and the third


humanity is a monster and should be wiped out....hehehe