OOC Thread

[JediBear]

There's another way to approach this, guys...

Not exactly.

I mean, yes, there are a lot of other ways to go about it, but only one (aside details of implementation) that's legally and morally consistent with the Way of the Clans.

If the GC recognizes the absorption, potentially that puts a GC member in command of the SLDF,

Actually, it puts persons of dubious loyalty in the GC. Seating Marco Hall in the GC won't change who he is. We have little interest in the so-called SLDF, and are quite content destroying it rather than owning it.

In this FGC, the GC has been prevented by GM fiat from even considering the legality of the original Abjuration, and so the Exiles have stood Abjured throughout.

Meanwhile, the Exiles have shown little interest in rapprochement, and this move is directly aimed at sabotaging the GC's war effort.

the conflict among the IS powers may be enough to pry the exiles out of the IS camp and place them, and all the information, contacts, contracts, etc. at their disposal...at the disposal of the Grand Council. (Citing the example of what happened with the RD over the last ten cycles or so...)

Had I not intervened, the RD would have continued down its current path as a TH sympathizer covertly working with the DC (and through it the Star League) and denying all assistance to the GC. We might get the Wolves booted from the SL, but putting their resources at our disposal would be something else entirely. Nevertheless, that was the beginning of the aim of my question of whether the Exiles even intended to send representation (to which they are not entitled) to the GC.

There are significant in-character benefits for dragging these folks back into the fold,

True, but this isn't the way to go about it. (Had the GC Wolves won, I wouldn't have said word one about it. It's still a Trial of Whatever but...yeah. Whatever.) The Exiles had to win. In so doing, they made their bed.

including the ability to turn the SLDF itself against the Terrans,

If the RD's complaint to the SLDF does not achieve this result, it is singularly unlikely that letting Exiles into the GC would.

reclaiming the mantle of the SLDF from the "Traitor Lords"

From our perspective, we are still the SLDF, and we have no need to infiltrate an organization of pretenders to reclaim its mantle. We would far rather Annihilate them.

and there are public relations boons that can make conquest and occupation activities much, much easier.

Judging from the Horses' success in the Outworlds Alliance, the task would seem to be almost trivial in any case.

Further, there are likely members of the Exiles whose initial love-affair with the IS has been soured by dealing with the local politics (ask NVA in OOC what kind of screwing his clan's gotten in their dealings with the Lyrans, for instance),

That's as may be, but it has not so far driven them to reject their leadership or persuaded that leadership to seek rapprochement with the GC.

Prodigals can be the most fanatical of all when they've returned (human nature that),

But they have to choose to return on their own.

[NVA]

And, one just need to look at the Bears to see why concerns of changes are just part of the game.  We were close allies of the FRR and then worked with the Bears closely.  We helped them develop a Protomech program, among other things.  We fought along side them at Alshain against the Dracs, after a trial to contract our forces.  Now, we appear to be public enemy #2. 

[JediBear]

Well, Diana invalidating the trial won't really mean much.

Not to the Exiles, maybe not to the other Wolves (though that shouldn't be your call.)

It does matter to your most dangerous neighbors.

We'll see whose Might starts making the Most Right in Turn 41 and beyond.

[NVA]

Hey...More enemies to target...LOL

And, it doesn't really matter, we get targetted no matter what.  And, going after us may cause the RD grief from the FRR side.  The Falcons splitting their focus would be dangerous.  More WMD/OrBomb by the clans will be SOOO helpful to ever turning the people of the IS to see them as anything but boogeymen.

[JediBear]

And, one just need to look at the Bears to see why concerns of changes are just part of the game.  We were close allies of the FRR and then worked with the Bears closely.

And I am not averse to continuing friendly relations, just as I have sought friendly contact among the Inner Sphere. Your refusal to seek rapprochement with the GC has proven (to our initial surprise) that you are not Clan, but that need not stop us from being friends. However, you'd pretty much need to stop acting aggressively to sabotage the GC's war effort. I sense some good RP upcoming.

Now, we appear to be public enemy #2.  

Don't flatter yourself. You're a very small fish in a very big pond.

And, it doesn't really matter, we get targetted no matter what.

It does really matter, because who targets you changes.

And, going after us may cause the RD grief from the FRR side.

Seriously? Because the FRR has no love whatsoever for the Wolves. I'd expect them to be cheering and reaching for the popcorn.

[NVA]

1 - WiE did approach the GC.  During SJWs GMShip.  The rules he set were not viable.

2 - FRR and RD both approached us about helping them change the worlds from GC Wolf to RD/WiE.  This goes way back as well.

And I sense fun too...Just hope for some time to get orders sheets figured out.

[JediBear]

1 - WiE did approach the GC.  During SJWs GMShip.  The rules he set were not viable.

That was then. This is now: dozens of turns, a few years, and a goodly number of GMships later.

SJW's GM fiat meddling is a thing of the past, and the Exiles' failure to attempt rapprochement since then is still telling.

For many turns, the OWA couldn't invade Antallos because the GMs wouldn't let us. Then they did, and we did, because it has always been our desire to do so.

2 - FRR and RD both approached us about helping them change the worlds from GC Wolf to RD/WiE.  This goes way back as well.

We approached the DC too, and they actually helped us. That doesn't mean the FRR has any special attachment to them either.

[NVA]

Might want to check with Dave and the former players.  Exiles moved from Arc Royal to Grumium because of that special raproachment.

[NVA]

One other thought...Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall a case of a clan leadership changing due to a Trial of Possession.  So, it has already occurred.  I may be wrong, so I ask the others with the long memories to help me remember.

[JediBear]

One other thought...Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall a case of a clan leadership changing due to a Trial of Possession.

Yup. The former Ghost Bear Khan took the seat in an illegal Trial of Possession. Still, it's not the correct procedure.

Khans are elected, so a Khanship cannot be gained by the result of any Trial. Where this has been allowed in canon or in the FGC, it is a mistake. Canon, but an error.

[JediBear]

Might want to check with Dave and the former players.  Exiles moved from Arc Royal to Grumium because of that special raproachment.

I knew the Exiles had a guest facility in my territory, but not where it was or how it came about, exactly.

And no, that doesn't indicate a special sentiment from the FRR side of things. It just indicates that they let you keep your stuff on their planet. As with the Lyran Commonwealth, that arrangement can be as temporary as it needs to be.

[NVA]

But, again, we did not challenge for leadership of either Clan.  We challenged for leadership of the united Clan.  Marco Hall and Ivan Kerensky were both elected Khan of Clan Wolf.  Both sought to be the ONLY Khan of Clan Wolf.  The Wolves do not have precedent to work off of.  And, in essence, what has happened is that the victor has proven that their path was right and that they were the rightful leader of Clan Wolf all along.  So, perhaps, the wording used was wrong.  A trial of refusal over the others claim to being Khan of Clan Wolf.  Still, you are right, in canon it has never occurred.  Here, it has.  It has precedent and it was supported by the Grand Council.

A?  Guest facility?  Try guest facilities on 5 different worlds.  Try forces helping defend most of those worlds, unless that has changed.  We were the FRRs HPG network for a long while.  The relationship was much closer than it seems you were told.  Not that that can't change.  And that was my point.  My focus is to remain as close to canon as new things allow my faction, while still having fun.  But, we too have added new features to our clan to survive.

One other thought...Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall a case of a clan leadership changing due to a Trial of Possession.

Yup. The former Ghost Bear Khan took the seat in an illegal Trial of Possession. Still, it's not the correct procedure.

Khans are elected, so a Khanship cannot be gained by the result of any Trial. Where this has been allowed in canon or in the FGC, it is a mistake. Canon, but an error.

[NVA]

Oh, and just to be clear, I am not suggesting to JediBear that he change what he is doing or that I have any complaints.  Just that there is a lot of history there and I would hope he wants to know and understand it so that he can use that history in whatever way moving forward.  My issue with new Faction heads is NOT that they change course, it is that they often ignore the history that exists to do so.  Not an accusation at any FH and specifically not at JediBear.

[GreyJaeger]

Actually, you only called for leadership of the Wolves at Tamar. Read your own language from the thread. If the rest of Clan Wold away from Tamar does not recognize your claim, or even Ivan Kerensky, he would be well within his rights. You left a loophole in your own poorly worded challenge.

But, again, we did not challenge for leadership of either Clan.  We challenged for leadership of the united Clan.  Marco Hall and Ivan Kerensky were both elected Khan of Clan Wolf.  Both sought to be the ONLY Khan of Clan Wolf.  The Wolves do not have precedent to work off of.  And, in essence, what has happened is that the victor has proven that their path was right and that they were the rightful leader of Clan Wolf all along.  So, perhaps, the wording used was wrong.  A trial of refusal over the others claim to being Khan of Clan Wolf.  Still, you are right, in canon it has never occurred.  Here, it has.  It has precedent and it was supported by the Grand Council.

A?  Guest facility?  Try guest facilities on 5 different worlds.  Try forces helping defend most of those worlds, unless that has changed.  We were the FRRs HPG network for a long while.  The relationship was much closer than it seems you were told.  Not that that can't change.  And that was my point.  My focus is to remain as close to canon as new things allow my faction, while still having fun.  But, we too have added new features to our clan to survive.

One other thought...Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall a case of a clan leadership changing due to a Trial of Possession.

Yup. The former Ghost Bear Khan took the seat in an illegal Trial of Possession. Still, it's not the correct procedure.

Khans are elected, so a Khanship cannot be gained by the result of any Trial. Where this has been allowed in canon or in the FGC, it is a mistake. Canon, but an error.

[NVA]

Perhaps.  Thank goodness it was the intent of the 2 Faction Heads to merge into one viable entity.  Split, the Wolves were not in position to excercise their righful place in the panthean. 

Actually, you only called for leadership of the Wolves at Tamar. Read your own language from the thread. If the rest of Clan Wold away from Tamar does not recognize your claim, or even Ivan Kerensky, he would be well within his rights. You left a loophole in your own poorly worded challenge.

But, again, we did not challenge for leadership of either Clan.  We challenged for leadership of the united Clan.  Marco Hall and Ivan Kerensky were both elected Khan of Clan Wolf.  Both sought to be the ONLY Khan of Clan Wolf.  The Wolves do not have precedent to work off of.  And, in essence, what has happened is that the victor has proven that their path was right and that they were the rightful leader of Clan Wolf all along.  So, perhaps, the wording used was wrong.  A trial of refusal over the others claim to being Khan of Clan Wolf.  Still, you are right, in canon it has never occurred.  Here, it has.  It has precedent and it was supported by the Grand Council.

A?  Guest facility?  Try guest facilities on 5 different worlds.  Try forces helping defend most of those worlds, unless that has changed.  We were the FRRs HPG network for a long while.  The relationship was much closer than it seems you were told.  Not that that can't change.  And that was my point.  My focus is to remain as close to canon as new things allow my faction, while still having fun.  But, we too have added new features to our clan to survive.

One other thought...Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall a case of a clan leadership changing due to a Trial of Possession.

Yup. The former Ghost Bear Khan took the seat in an illegal Trial of Possession. Still, it's not the correct procedure.

Khans are elected, so a Khanship cannot be gained by the result of any Trial. Where this has been allowed in canon or in the FGC, it is a mistake. Canon, but an error.