OOC Thread

[tassa_kay]

Ironic that the Widowmakers did exactly this to the Wolverines to galvanize the other Clans into exterminating them wholesale.  Nicholas was aware of it (having viewed the footage of Widowmaker warriors dressed up as Wolverines and stealing the nuke from the disputed Brian Cache) but never did anything about it. 

If the Blood ARE behind Tharkad, I for one would laugh at the ultimate irony of it all.

[Iron Mongoose]

It very well might be.  Though the sad, or perhaps just ironic, bit would be that since none of the Clans still retain that knolage (even the Wolves seem to have lost it, since their own Khan Phelan didn't seem to know).

Personaly, I blame the FWL.  Because why not?  We blame them for every other thing.

[Cannonshop]

Actually, the tipping point for the UIW was finding out three things:

1. While Debbie Mac worked for the Archon, she found out Daphne Rowe was still alive-it was a Rowe Facility that originated the outbreak of Arluna Flu, hte idea that Rowe was still alive and not facing execution for that...

2. The 'trace' from the Triad detonation, compared to the Mt. Asgard bomb-Kowloon NEF is Kowloonese, and they're Coast-Guard trained, so BDA and NBC aren't 'shorted' the way they are in standard units, they analyzed the trace and it looked...well, not right-not like the sort of neutron-bomb derivative that you'd see someone with the tactical menu of the Clans deploying.

3. Rowe's escape, and announcement, and info that Adam Steiner was still among the living.  This was the tipping point, right HERE.  Adam dead, Somerset/Addergrad could be seen as a mistake, but just a mistake.  Coupled with the rest of what the RWR's done the last six-in-character-months, and the high-level and deep penetration of the Lyran government they had (and HAD to have had to accomplish what they did), makes it a matter of crass betrayal, combined with likely continuing penetration of the LC's government at all levels (again, proved out by who signed up with them in the aftermath.)

Two of the other Lyran factions are typical dynastic arguments vs. legalist arguments: Arc Royal's trying for legitimacy with an Estates General, and SKye/Bolan are going with Salic Law in the form of Robert k. STEINER, and then, there's the Clanner angle with Charlemagne, who also has a Salic claim to the throne through verified genetic descent.

As for Motive on the bombing-the RWR needed the LC to be totally destabilized or they'd not be able to secede effectively (and look how effectively they've done it: Bolan frikking PROVINCE joined them!) It actually holds up when you take into account their previous tactics manuevering the Lyran state, and their chosen head-thereof.

At least, to the disgruntled bunch that seceded to form the UIW it does...then agian, they took the worst of the Arluna Flu damage, and had other reasons to be unhappy with the Commonwealth after more than a year of being isolated economically while still taxed and levied to support a distant war-effort and left virtually unprotected and paralyzed in the face of not one, but TWO advancing Clan forces-which squares well with what??

Oh, yeah, that's right-while paralyzed by those things, and stuck as part of the Commonwealth, they'd be easy prey for the Rimjobs, whereas by going independent, they could at least make a play to divert the Clan efforts away from them for a while, regain some vitality, make alliances with people who can and will actually FIGHT, and keep the "RWR" out of their worlds.

The native mistrust of "Foreign" rule is underscored by the damage done-a foreigner (Adam Steiner) stripped their defenses and wasted the men he took in a deliberate attempt to cripple the state they were all nominally part of, in order to falsify his own demise and bring his own separatist nation into existence.  A foreigner (Peter Steiner Davion) authorized high command to continue drawing men and materiel away to a far-distant war, while maintaining unsustainable taxation levels and choking the local economies through what amounts to 'passive' embargo tactics, effectively abandoning them to be invaded and preyed upon by other external enemies.  A foreigner (Daphne Rowe) used police-state tactics, official corruption, and underhanded means to coerce them into a "Rim Worlds Republic Province" prior to the outright betrayal at Somerset/Addergrad, and was the source for a bio-weapon that killed tens of billions in the area (whether by accident or design, the weapon was uncased in a populated area at a Rowe-McClaren facility), Foreign rulers who claimed those worlds virtually abandoned them to the plague, the only relief coming from in-name enemies (The Clans Goliath Scorpion, and Star Adder) and the microscopic state of the NIOPS association and Wolf in Exile (also not Lyrans).

Note also that the other Lyran or ex-Lyran factions have not come forward to condemn the RWR, which originated all of the above and orchestrated most of it (according to best info), it's really only the UIW in the person of Archduchess Debra MacAulliffe, who's calling for Rimjob craniums at this point...

and unlike many feuds (both in, and out of canon) this one's got reasons and teeth.  It's not some ancestral/dynastic dynamic or an event that happened centuries ago-the pain is still current and the anger is that of the survivors and victims themselves.

Notably, because of the build-up events, the UIW's probably teh one state in the Inner Sphere who can say, out loud, that they don't think it was the Clans at Tharkad, and provide documentary proof that the tech is the wrong tech for it to BE the Clans...and they have little to no reason to say otherwise, since they aren't members of the "New" Star League, nor the Lyran Commonwealth, and they have little to no need to hate the Clans when there's a Rim Worlds out there who's done them actual, present-time injury.



This isn't to say they want to join a Clan, though-these worlds have their own cultures, and feel little to no need for further radical changes to how they live their lives, no desire to adopt a caste system, and no desire to kowtow to yet another foreign lord (or khan, or whathaveyou) who'll ignore them, tax them, make demands of them without recompense, and treat them as part of the real-estate to be won or lost in trials fought far away for obscure reasons.

But they DO want to put Adam Steiner at permanent attention and nail up Daphne Rowe like an easter ornament.  they would like that very much...

[chaosxtreme]

It very well might be.  Though the sad, or perhaps just ironic, bit would be that since none of the Clans still retain that knolage (even the Wolves seem to have lost it, since their own Khan Phelan didn't seem to know).

Personaly, I blame the FWL.  Because why not?  We blame them for every other thing.

IM I just want to assure you that I would never, under any circumstances do something like this...and then get caught.

[Marlin]

I wanted to say something.. then I forgot.

perhaps I can add my viewpoint as CIH: Dark? I guess they heard of them, though suspicious channels (FedSuns press or so) thought of making contact but did not as the atrocities came out. Now its a fight far away, not to care at all.

RWR: I guess very few is known. But now as they have a big economic base.. they could mean trouble. However, before them lies a string of seemingly strongly defended worlds and SLDF.. and Terrans, and some Lyrans.. thats the issue at hand. All others will be dealt with when it is time.

[Cannonshop]

I wanted to say something.. then I forgot.

perhaps I can add my viewpoint as CIH: Dark? I guess they heard of them, though suspicious channels (FedSuns press or so) thought of making contact but did not as the atrocities came out. Now its a fight far away, not to care at all.

RWR: I guess very few is known. But now as they have a big economic base.. they could mean trouble. However, before them lies a string of seemingly strongly defended worlds and SLDF.. and Terrans, and some Lyrans.. thats the issue at hand. All others will be dealt with when it is time.

Just consider though-if the Hellions aimed a little bit 'south' and rammed that attack on Terra through, say, Apollo, they would not only eliminate future competition, but they could by-pass most of the Maginot-line deployments and get into the guts of the Not-Named well ahead of the other Clans...

and come out heroes on both sides of the IS/Clan divide.  (basically doing LIGHT 'mech tactics on a grand scale with fleets and Galaxies...)

(yes, I know, I should've said that in PM, or in-character, but my characters don't really have a means to do so...)

Kind of instead of hammering on the thick plate, driving up under to the soft belly...

[Marlin]

You overestimate the patience of me and the Clan. It would need many rounds to get there.

But yeah, it might be a way to go, unless they unpack the nukes.

BTW: I wanted to say: Should Tharkad not be Terrorized? Or did I really miss the 0-9 roll that means no T?

Just asking. OR wasnt it a real Nuke? I think it was real.

[DXM]

Thanks for that dissertation, Cannonshop.  Apparently, the Clans are right -- the Rim Worlds Republic is the root of all that's evil.  The RWR destroyed the Star League, purposely led half the LCAF into a meatgrinder, unleashed a virulent plague on unsuspecting worlds, and then decided to go ahead and nuke a national capital since, hey -- why not?  They've already done everything else.  Give it a month and Liz Ngo's death will end up as part of an RWR conspiracy, too.

. . . oh, except that Star League was destroyed by Stefan Amaris, whose entire familial line was wiped out (with the exception of the Star Lord incident), and the uncaring attitudes of Ewan Marik, Michael Steiner, John Davion, Minoru Kurita, and Barbara Liao.  I can't speak for the Somerset operation one way or the other, but as I recall the Arluna Flu storyline was your baby.  You can blame the RWR in-character for that as much as you want, but YOU wrote it, YOU came up with it, so as far as *I* am concerned, it is YOUR fault.  Blame the RWR all you want, but don't villify a faction for what YOU fugging wrote especially in an OUT OF CHARACTER context.  And no, the RWR did not nuke Tharkad.  If they did, Dave neglected to mention that to me, and if so, he'd better tell me so that I can adjust my RP accordingly.  I've been playing the bleeding heart over the past week, but if I need to go Full Retard, then I'm willing to do it.

[Cannonshop]

You overestimate the patience of me and the Clan. It would need many rounds to get there.

But yeah, it might be a way to go, unless they unpack the nukes.

BTW: I wanted to say: Should Tharkad not be Terrorized? Or did I really miss the 0-9 roll that means no T?

Just asking. OR wasnt it a real Nuke? I think it was real.

Um...didn't you-oh, yeah, some folks don't read the IC threads as often...  Yes, what do you think broke the back of the Commonwealth, and generated the Bolan Secession, three competitors for rulership, and finally triggered the UIW to declare independence?

Is that NOT a state of chaos?

[Marlin]

I read the excellent RP. IT came out that it should have been a nuke.

Problem is, the first time I got hit by a nuke the Hex was suddenly terrorized. Now I am looking at the T whereever the big Boom takes place.

DXM, I also read your RP and like it.


BTW: My first real candidate for the Boom was the Terrans. Somehow in canon, the reactor exploded there but elsewhere the Wobbies nuked planets so to unite all IS for the cause (tm) the weakest State would be beheaded. Dunno.. makes the most sense outta this mess. And seriously, those guys are walking atrocities anyway..

[Cannonshop]

Thanks for that dissertation, Cannonshop.  Apparently, the Clans are right -- the Rim Worlds Republic is the root of all that's evil.  The RWR destroyed the Star League, purposely led half the LCAF into a meatgrinder, unleashed a virulent plague on unsuspecting worlds, and then decided to go ahead and nuke a national capital since, hey -- why not?  They've already done everything else.  Give it a month and Liz Ngo's death will end up as part of an RWR conspiracy, too.

. . . oh, except that Star League was destroyed by Stefan Amaris, whose entire familial line was wiped out (with the exception of the Star Lord incident), and the uncaring attitudes of Ewan Marik, Michael Steiner, John Davion, Minoru Kurita, and Barbara Liao.  I can't speak for the Somerset operation one way or the other, but as I recall the Arluna Flu storyline was your baby.  You can blame the RWR in-character for that as much as you want, but YOU wrote it, YOU came up with it, so as far as *I* am concerned, it is YOUR fault.  Blame the RWR all you want, but don't villify a faction for what YOU fugging wrote especially in an OUT OF CHARACTER context.  And no, the RWR did not nuke Tharkad.  If they did, Dave neglected to mention that to me, and if so, he'd better tell me so that I can adjust my RP accordingly.  I've been playing the bleeding heart over the past week, but if I need to go Full Retard, then I'm willing to do it.

Um... no, you're mixing "In Character" with OOC there.  Play how you see it, DXM, the Flu was an accident, it's just that the victims don't see it that way, Adam likely didn't do what he did on purpose-but again, it's how the UIW's people see it-Perceptions don't always line up 100% with reality.  

As for top-to-bottom penetration of the Lyran Government-that's not actually what I came up with, it's Lao_Hu's RP and the "Natural consequences" angle-for a while now, every single attempt at an Intel op directed at the RWR (up until you took over as player) has failed-at that point, it's not happenstance, it's penetration-of-government.  (once is happenstance, twice coincidence and three times...yeah, that's enemy action.)

At this point, the RWR should be pursuing alliances, including trying to get into the CPS and/or the Star League-whose official line is that the CLANS nuked Tharkad, so they couldn't likely debar the RWR from petitioning membership.  Likewise, many of the CPS member states will look foremost at two of three (or all three) things:

1. you're on the "Right side" of the fight with the Clans (as in, you're not seeking Clan Friendships or engaging them in non-hostile contact)
2. You're on the "Right Side" of dealing with the big powers (You're not buddy-buddy with the powers that they're enemies with)
3. You're economically powerful with a demonstrably competent military and political leadership.

Start doing some propoganda posts and generating a 'feel' for your nation-state, pursue foreign relations aggressively and seek deals with other, established states that may seek to gain influence.  Hell, you might be able to generate in-character sympathy by pointing to the rabid tone of the UIW's foreign policy pronouncements...or by mocking those same statements and making in-character fun of Debbie Mac's little mouse of a state.

One obvious move to make when approaching the TH and Star League, is to bandy the word "Collaborator" around to describe the segment of hte LC that just went for Charlemagne, and the same word directed at the UIW.  This is propoganda gold, and it doesn't cost you any resources to do it.

[Cannonshop]

Just one more bit, DXM:

Welcome to the game, I look forward to a nice, in-character bitter struggle, but outside of character, I'm really,really, really glad you're here.  I look forward to playing against you as a worthy opponent.   (Which means we can be friendly outside of what our characters/factions are doing...)

Oh, and note that a lot of that nasty diatribe I wrote ought to be viewed as offensive to the two LYRAN factions (Arc Royal and Skye/Donegal) because a bit more than half of it is bitterness about being IN the Commonwealth, and somewhat unfair (this is intentional by the writer, I want those guys to gin up responses decrying the unfair characterization of Lyran Rule!)

[DXM]

I keep trying to write responses and they all come out sounding disingenuous, acerbic, or insulting.  So I'm going to give you a virtual handshake and say, "Let's get to it."

[Marlin]

That's the spirit, my friends.

[Holt]

Anyone know if the Grand Council has forks handy? Or was it soup day?