OOC Thread

[DisGruntled]

Being attacked by spheroids and greedy Rimmers I can understand. (and I think it's funny that almost everyone else appears to have gotten more troops in the AC then the AC originally did )  Being attacked by one of our former allies (whose OZ we originally carved out) out of the blue with no notice a bit less so especially if they end up invading.  Any chance for an OOC or IC explanation on the reasoning on it Holt?

I just finished a 10+ hour day moving a new colleague into his new home in the lovely 90-100 degree weather and near 100% humidity of south GA.  As such I'm gong to hold off posting up any Adder stuff till tomorrow after I've recovered a bit.

[Daemonknight]

ilKhan's ban and trials and we would not want to have you be cowardly hypocrits by now ignoring the ilKhan.  Further, we have already accepted a trial for this world from Clan Blood Spirit.

Can I ask how you justify refusing a ToP from one Clan, but accept it without comment from another? The ilKhan said no ToPs, meaning anyone doing it is undertaking an illegal trial; and also, the Hellions didn't support it, because it was an edict posted by the ilKhan, so your argument for refusing their ToP should prolly be changed.

[NVA]

Easy.  The Wolves don't support it.  They don't believe the ilKhan has such authority.  We have refused those clans that have HIDDEN behind it.  The CBS did not cower behind the ilKhan's skirt.  They honored us with their challenge.  They showed they are true warriors.  If you will note, we did not refuse BECAUSE of the edict.  We refused to allow the Hellion's to make themselves hypocrits, since THEY support it.

ilKhan's ban and trials and we would not want to have you be cowardly hypocrits by now ignoring the ilKhan.  Further, we have already accepted a trial for this world from Clan Blood Spirit.

Can I ask how you justify refusing a ToP from one Clan, but accept it without comment from another? The ilKhan said no ToPs, meaning anyone doing it is undertaking an illegal trial; and also, the Hellions didn't support it, because it was an edict posted by the ilKhan, so your argument for refusing their ToP should prolly be changed.

[Daemonknight]

Explain to me how the Wolves know of the Hellions supporting the measure? I don't remember ever seeing anything by them stating that it was a good idea...

Infact, by launching a ToP against the Wolves, they're ignoring it in the same fashion as the Spirits

[NVA]

Explain to me how the Wolves know of the Hellions supporting the measure? I don't remember ever seeing anything by them stating that it was a good idea...

Infact, by launching a ToP against the Wolves, they're ignoring it in the same fashion as the Spirits

All trials launched are recorded on the Chatterweb.  I believe the Hellion's have hidden behind the trial ban previously.

[Daemonknight]

Nope, just looked: nobody has targeted them for a Trial in the past 2 turns, and the edict is only a turn old.

[NVA]

Nope, just looked: nobody has targeted them for a Trial in the past 2 turns, and the edict is only a turn old.

Edict predated that.  That was the renewal of the edict.  HOWEVER, it doesn't matter.  It is an IC argument. 

[tassa_kay]

Besides, the Spirits haven't violated the Trial ban, either.  We are engaging an Abjured Clan; in essence, we recognize that the Exiles have essentially taken over the Crusader Wolves, even though there are Clans that will scream and cry that the Exiles' takeover isn't legal, yadda yadda. 

So the Spirits' position is simple: an Abjured Clan isn't covered under the Trial ban, and we're free to engage them as we please.  If you disagree, DK, well, we'll have it out IC like we're supposed to.  I'm really not all that worried about it, since the Hellions AND the Horses are doing the same thing we are.

[JediBear]

Besides, the Spirits haven't violated the Trial ban, either.  We are engaging an Abjured Clan; in essence, we recognize that the Exiles have essentially taken over the Crusader Wolves, even though there are Clans that will scream and cry that the Exiles' takeover isn't legal, yadda yadda.  

If anyone asks (and noone has) the GL agrees with this position: the Trial at Tamar was a Trial of Possession and the Posessed assets now belong to a group of Abjured bandits. Where it gets a bit muddy is that the ilKhan has nullified that Trial as inappropriate, but the Wolves have refused to comply. You can argue that you're enforcing the ilKhan's will against traitors if you like.

So the Spirits' position is simple: an Abjured Clan isn't covered under the Trial ban, and we're free to engage them as we please.  If you disagree, DK, well, we'll have it out IC like we're supposed to.  I'm really not all that worried about it, since the Hellions AND the Horses are doing the same thing we are.

Laurie Tseng will back you on this one. The Trial Ban only applies between loyal Clans, which the Wolves are not by any measure. They are not represented in the Hall of Khans (and Laurie will not admit any representatives unless instructed otherwise) and they do not obey the ilKhan's orders -- as such they cannot be protected by them.

[tassa_kay]

If anyone asks (and noone has) the GL agrees with this position: the Trial at Tamar was a Trial of Possession and the Posessed assets now belong to a group of Abjured bandits. Where it gets a bit muddy is that the ilKhan has nullified that Trial is inappropriate, but the Wolves have refused to comply. You can argue that you're enforcing the ilKhan's will against traitors if you like.

Laurie Tseng will back you on this one. The Trial Ban only applies between loyal Clans, which the Wolves are not by any measure. They are not represented in the Hall of Khans (and Laurie will not admit any representatives unless instructed otherwise) and they do not obey the ilKhan's orders -- as such they cannot be protected by them.

And that's exactly the approach I've taken, too.  If the Wolves insist on following through with their chosen course of action, then they've forfeited their place at the big boys' table for good.  And since I don't need to ask permission to enforce Clan law, we've taken it upon ourselves to carry out that Abjuration... but with honor and dignity, for they might be bandits and out-caste, but they are still the Clan of Kerensky, and they deserve the last drops of honor that I have left to offer them.

Also, to answer your question about why the Wolves are ignoring the Hellions' Trial, DK?  They're ignoring it because they're already engaged in a Trial with the Spirits over the very same thing you're Trialing for.  Whether they can do so or not, as NVA has pointed out, is something to be worked out IC.  But we already challenged their Khan directly a week ago in realtime (Dave and Josh were CCed on all that, so they have documentation), so the Hellions (and Horses, too, I see) have basically shown up late to the party.

[Daemonknight]

Tassa, I've no idea why you felt the need to defend your trial when I didn't say anything about it. I asked why the Wolves refused the Hellions a trial for a non-existant reason, so that he could change it to something that made sense. I've no idea why this had to blow up into 3 different people discussing the state of the Wolves, when i didn't say anything about it.

[tassa_kay]

You asked a question, and I answered it.  No need to get defensive about it. 

[Daemonknight]

Look whose talking. I didn't aim the question at you, and it was answered before you said anything.

[tassa_kay]

Um, is there a particular reason you're being so hostile to me right now?  Because last I checked, this thread was public, and I can answer any question I damned well please.  You also accused the Spirits of engaging in an illegal Trial, and THAT was the point I was actually addressing.  And since the situation DOES involve me, I'm also entitled to share my perspective on it as well.  And while I'm on the subject, what's *your* interest in the situation?  It has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with NVA, Marlin, and myself.  Just sayin'.

[Daemonknight]

I asked NVA why your trial was legal and the Hellions wasn't. The combat boards are public, so i can comment on anything I want, can't I? Just like its public here.

And I said the ToP was illegal, because they are. Untill Jedi said otherwise, I didn't realize the Wolves were considered abjured- considering the GC undertook a vote to abjure them, how can they already be abjured? Fine, they're abjured- your trial is legal. But he can't have your trial be legal, and the Hellions' illegal. Doesnt work that way. Not that he gets to make that call, considering he is in no way an offical Clan anymore.

Thats my point. I had no issue with you running the Trial, because even if i tried, you'd ignore anything Diana or the Falcons had to say. So i wasn't going to fight a battle I couldn't win. And i wasn't trying to start a fight or anything- trying to clear something up that didn't look right to me. It was resolved with NVA's last post, and I had forgotten about it untill i saw there were 5 more messages about it. And I'm not being hostile, not at all. If you took what I said the wrong way, theres nothing I can really do about that.