Rules Discussion

[Fatebringer]

Forced Withdrawl

I feel trials should have their own rules, and that this should not apply to someone who chooses to fight at extreme odds for honor.

Also, does Forced withdrawl only apply once a Turn or each time a unit is halved? If a unit taked 50% damage one Round, then 50% of the remainder the next Round, do they have to roll again?

What happens when both sides take 50%, do the roll? What if they both fail?

[Iron Mongoose]

I would think a sliding scale would be best.  If the occupieing force is very large, perhaps more than ten or so times the gurillas, then they can pretty much do as they please and production can go on.  If it is less, perhaps five times, then some of the world is partialy contested.  And if the occupiers are small, just two or three times, then the world can be totaly contested.  And we can play with thouse numbers as we want, so it might take twenty or fifty times the force to totaly lock a world down, if that's what we want.

We might also make the scale dependant on infrastructure.  For each bit, it takes a certan amount to defend.  So to garison a world with nothing might just take twice the gurillas, or three times, or some other number, but to do a world with a factor would take twice as many, and a world with nine factories ten times as many.

At the very least, rules such as this would encourage invaders to leave behind large garisons, and not just plow on as they do.

[Fatebringer]

I like the fact that there is at least one option for a spoiler force. Although I detest them, the Forces on Flitvelt make sense. Even though I outnumber them 100 to 1

[Dave Baughman]

Please review and comment.


Draft Material


Mercenary Pilot Program

Mercenary 'factions' operate under slightly different rules than other factions.

Territory
Mercenary factions cannot exercise control over a hex; if a mercenary faction seizes control of a hex, they may choose to turn the hex over to their employer, or the hex may become factionless (beige).

Hex improvements owned by mercenary factions, even if they are in a factionless hex, are always guest facilies.

Because of these two restrictions, mercenary factions normally do not directly collect ownership income.

Record Keeping
Player-controller mercenaries must maintain a seperate record sheet for the mercenary unit.

Intelligence Operations
Mercenary units may attempt any intelligence operation, but suffer a -2 modifier on their operation rolls reflecting their relative lack of infrastructure.

This penalty does not apply to special operations projects.

Movement
Player-controlled mercenaries follow different movement rules than standard units.

Player-controlled mercenaries do not general movement points, regardless of their composition and movement class.

Mobile and LFB-Mobile mercenaries move per the normal rules. LFB-mobile mercenary units may fast-move without paying the additional MP cost.

Transported mercenaries may move by two different methods:

1) They may move using movement points provided by their employer (representing off-camera employer transport assets)
2) They may be carried onboard one of the mercenary command's JumpShips, providing that ship's DropShips have sufficient capacity to carry the units to be moved.

For the purpose of determinig the ability of a unit to move battle armor, infantry bays may be used for either conventional infantry or BA.

Size restrictions
Player-controlled mercenary factions are limited to brigade-size formations (3-5 regiments or clusters) of ground forces supported by regiment-sized aerospace formations (3-5 batallions/trinaries). This figure does not include auxiliary units such as appropriate numbers of transport JumpShips.

Upkeep
Mercenaries have two expenses each turn: MRBC fees and Overhead.

MRBC fees are a flat 10% of the current contract fee and are paid to the MRBC on Outreach. Failing to pay MRBC fees will result in losing the command's listing with MRBC, which will have roleplaying penalties.

Overhead is based on the size and composition of the unit, and is a percentage of the unit's FP that is paid each turn to cover routine maintainence, repairs, salaries, and supply expenses.

Step 1: Calculate Upkeep Weight
Each company of troops, squadron of fighters, DropShip and JumpShip has an upkeep weight that reflects its cost of maintainence.

• 'Mechs and Aerospace: Assault 1.5, Heavy 1.25, Medium 1.00, Light 0.75.
• Tanks: Assault 0.75, Heavy 0.5, Medium 0.25, Light 0.00
• Infantry: Battle Armor 0.25, Conventional 0.00
• Small Craft: Battle Taxis 0.25 each, Others 0.00
• DropShips: ((Dropship BV/1000)^(1/3))/2
• JumpShips and WarShips: (Jump-capable unit BV/1000)^(1/2)

Step 2: Calculate actual upkeep percentage
The percentage paid per turn is equal to ((Upkeep Weight)^2)/500

Attached Spreadsheet calculates unit Upkeep Weight (and upkeep %) automatically.

Contracting
Mercenary contract terms are entirely a roleplaying matter to be settled between players.

Multi-faction control
Mercenary commands do not count as a "faction" for the purpose of membership limits, but a player may not hire his or her own mercenary unit. Each play may opt to run one mercenary command.

Available commands
(More options may be added based on demand)

Wolf Dragoons Alpha Command
-1 Overstrength Regiment of Clan 'Mechs (1 assault coy, 4 heavy coy, 4 medium coy, 2 light coy) -- 17.0 FP
-2 Regiments of IS-2 armor (3 assault coy, 6 heavy coy, 7 medium coy, 3 light coy) -- 11.75 FP
-2 Batallions of Clan Battle Armor (6 coys) -- 1.5 FP
-1 Star Lord (WDS Jaime Wolf) with 4 DP and 2 DA; 1 heavy sqn, 2 med. sqn, 1 light sqn. 4 battle taxis, 1 FP of marine Clan battle armor -- 7 FP + 2 marine FP
-1 Star Lord (WDS Misery) with 4 DP and 2 DA; 1 heavy sqn, 2 med. sqn, 1 light sqn. 4 battle taxis, 1 FP of marine Clan battle armor -- 7 FP + 2 marine FP
-1 Monolith (WDS Crossing with 9 DT) -- 1 med. sqn, 1 light sqn, 4 battle taxis, 1 FP of marine Clan battle armor -- 3.75 FP naval + 2 marine FP

Total FP: 30.25 FP ground forces, 17.75 FP aerospace, 6 FP marines


Four more Wolf Dragoons commands with identical stats (Beta, Gamma, Delta, and Epsilon) -- players can choose the JumpShip names.


Wolf Dragoons special notes:

• Won't take contracts against the TH (or with the Grand Council)
• Uses TH technology including naval tables
• Will not transfer technology

[Marlin]

Interesting.

Might increase the number of actively played commands.

Might increase cost for Mercs. (Upkeep payment, etc.)

I think I like it. If people take that, it remains to be seen how much extra work it is. ANd of course the metagame aspect.

[DXM]

I don't like the "you can't hire yourself" thing.  My issue with it is simple: it gives a player access to metagame information from another faction.  Even if the merc unit isn't IC-involved in operational planning, he's going to know where his unit is stationed/being sent and generally for what purpose.  I can tell you right now that *I* won't be hiring any player-controlled mercenaries unless that's ALL that player runs.

[Dave Baughman]

I don't like the "you can't hire yourself" thing.  My issue with it is simple: it gives a player access to metagame information from another faction.  Even if the merc unit isn't IC-involved in operational planning, he's going to know where his unit is stationed/being sent and generally for what purpose.  I can tell you right now that *I* won't be hiring any player-controlled mercenaries unless that's ALL that player runs.

Well, my thought process in not letting people hire themselves was to accomplish two things:

1) Prevent people from "hiring themselves at cost" and thus damaging the mercenary economy by eliminating competition in contract terms and pricing and...
2) Encourage situations where a player would interact with a different player in roleplaying rather than.

What are your guys' thoughts on this? Would you prefer to instead have a situation that was more like NPC mercenaries becoming more details? Maybe having a two-tab mini-orders-sheet with most of the options streamline/simplified... sort of an introductory-level faction, so to speak?

If so, we would need some sort of mechanism to ensure that the dynamics of the mercenary economy aren't totally wrecked by at-cost self-hiring. What are your thoughts on the best way to accomplish this? To me it seems like the most direct route would be to put some sort of surcharge on hiring your own merc unit, but part of me wonders about the fairness of that in a competitive bidding situation.

[DXM]

Well, you could make bidding public and final contracts subject to approval -- either by GMs or else set up the MRBC as another run-your-own-character deal like the TH Advisory Council.

[Jeyar]

I suppose I have 3 comments:

1) Mercs have upkeep, but no one else does. Not saying mercs shouldn't, I'm saying everyone else should.

2) Nothing should be for free (the zeros) - make them .05 and then do the rounding at the end.

3) I may have missed it, but more advanced stuff should cost extra: SL some and Clan a heap.

[Dave Baughman]

I suppose I have 3 comments:

1) Mercs have upkeep, but no one else does. Not saying mercs shouldn't, I'm saying everyone else should.

Consider merc upkeep as a "dry run" for real upkeep. One of my long-term goals it to get a working military upkeep system in place for all factions, but it has some rules pre-requisites.

2) Nothing should be for free (the zeros) - make them .05 and then do the rounding at the end.

They aren't actually free, unless the entire unit is light tanks and convenional infantry. Those unit types just don't increase the Upkeep Weight, which is the 'seed' used to generate the percentage paid each turn.

3) I may have missed it, but more advanced stuff should cost extra: SL some and Clan a heap.

They do - upkeep is a percentage of FP, so higher FP units (i.e. Standard IS tech or Clan tech) will cost more in upkeep than Intro level tech units.

The key thing to remember with upkeep is that Upkeep Weight is not the same as upkeep cost.

Upkeep cost per turn is a percentage of the unit's total FP. Upkeep cost is equal to Upkeep Weight squared, divided by 500. So essentially, Upkeep Weight is a sliding scale that makes certain types of maintainence- and overhead-heavy units, such as 'Mechs, ASF, and WarShips, more expensive than more easily maintained units like tanks and infantry.

[RedCairo]

I can tell you right now that *I* won't be hiring any player-controlled mercenaries unless that's ALL that player runs.

I think if a player runs a merc group that is all they should run. If they want to be more then that can go through a absorption of a bigger group and then they are a player of that group or they start a new merc group

[Chained Lady]

First: I really like theese rules but I'm wondering wether we can create own commands, or not?

Second: Is there a full list of avaiable commands? (Northwind Highlanders for example?) Or Snords irregulars? Or Dismal disinherited?

[Fatebringer]

What is the cost to repair a destroyed "HPG", you know the ones that aren't IC's, but interdict the hex anyway when the Dark come thru? 

[Marlin]

So far, there was nothing repair, only build new...

But if, I would want to know too.

[Fatebringer]

What is the cost to repair a destroyed "HPG", you know the ones that aren't IC's, but interdict the hex anyway when the Dark come thru? 

Bump Still need an answer to this.