[RP/MM] T38: CSR vs TH - Hunting Order - 2312 Planting [Complete]

[Holt]

Rules just state if it is used in simple res it needs to roll 5+, thats why i did not commit my warships at Schwartz for simple res.

Also:

Fight #1 (Simrez)

CSR: Outnumbers Opponent 3:1 - Roll 9 - Deal 80% of FP to Opponent
TH: Outnumbered 3:1 - Roll 12 - Deals 75% of FP to Opponent

CSRS: 213
TH: 15.25

CSR Deals 213 * .8 =  170.5 FP to Opponent
TH Deals 15.25 * .75 = 11.5 FP to Opponent

CSR Crits
5 Opponent receives -1 on all future rolls this combat (CO killed).
6 Valor saves the day: reduce damage done to you by 15%, increase damage done to your opponent by 10%.
7 Valor saves the day: reduce damage done to you by 20%, increase damage done to your opponent by 15%.

TH Crit
9 Encircle and capture 20% of opponent, add that FU to salvage

CSR Deals 213 * 1.05 =  223.75 FP to Opponent
CO of the THS Bismarck Killed in his escape pod Wink

TH Deals 15.25 * .4 = 6 FP to Opponent
Captures of Raven Forces adds 15.25 * .2 = 3 FP to Salvage Pool.

Final FP Totals
CSR: 204 FP
TH: 0 FP

The TH captured 20% of the Raven force so 213FP (committed raven FP) times 20% is 42.5FP.

[Fatebringer]

Nice try. It is 20% of their FP, not their opponents, the same way damage is done.

[Holt]

Wrong its 20% of opponent, in the rules clear as day; it sucks trust me, i had two of those at Alshain. The way you say it would be '20% of your FP is captured from opponent'.

[Fatebringer]

Either way, unit was destroyed, all of that FP would return to me after the combat as salvage.

[NVA]

Wrong.  At Grumium, even though the unit was destroyed, the Exiles still kept what they gained via crit.  I have seen this applied elsewhere as well.

[DisGruntled]

The TH force was wiped out though in round 1 wasn't it?  In the past when a force is completely wiped out, the encircled portions been converted to extra damage as well since it makes no sense for something to be captured whene there's nothing there to do any capturing.

I really think the encirclements should be moved to spots 10 and 11 on the chart as their the best things on it other then outright victory.

[Fatebringer]

I'm going off of what the rules state here guys. Hold off "advising" me any futher until we here from a GM.

Per the event listed in the rules...

9 Encircle and capture 20% of opponent, add that FU to salvage.

I have claimed all the salvage as the only party present.

[Dave Baughman]

Hi guys, hopefully this will clarify some of the questions raised here:


1 - Resolving WarShip saving through failures

Please see the text of the current rule, quoted below:

If a WarShip unit takes any damage during simple resolution (but not enough to destroy the entire unit), roll 2d6. On a roll of 5 or less, apply all available damage to the portion of the unit's FP representing the WarShip itself (bypassing fighters, dropships, and other support units). If enough damage was sustained to deplete the WarShip's FP to zero, the WarShip is destroyed.

If a WarShip is lost in this fashion but the overall unit still has FP (from support units), these units become a separate transported 'survivor' unit.

Unless the WarShip has a very high base FP or the amount of damage inflict is very low, a WarShip threatened by a failure of the "5 or less" saving through, it is in significant peril.

While the language above has been clarified, the rule itself has not changed from the CBT incarnation.


2 - Function of "capture" criticals

8 Encircle and capture 10% of opponent, add that FP to salvage.
9 Encircle and capture 20% of opponent, add that FP to salvage.

In both cases, the amount captured is a percentage of the enemy's force. This hasn't changed in terms of the language of the rule since turn 20, though it hasn't always been consistently implemented.

Since the FP gained is treated as successfully recovered salvage, if the force gaining it is subsequently wiped out (not the same as withdrawing or even being ejected from the system) the salvage would be left lying around to be claimed by whoever ends up in control of the field. This also hasn't been implemented consistently in the past, leading to all kinds of confusion over how the rule is supposed to work.



3. Capture + Wipeout synergy

The outcome of critical event results are applied before the damage inflicted "takes effect." Otherwise, the +15/-20 damage modifying critical events would not function correctly.

Consequently, heavy damage inflicted on the enemy will not "destroy your own salvage."




Does this resolve the questions regarding the function of the salvage and WarShip saving throw rules? If not, let me know and I will try to explain further. Please bear in mind that in the past the rules were not always consistently interpreted. As a general rule of thumb, the current published rules overrule all prior precedents. If in doubt, shoot me a PM or post a question in the rules discussion thread and we can address specific issues on a case by case basis.


Also, +1 to Fatebringer for quoting one of the better Freudian Slips in the old manual.

[Fatebringer]

Okay, so for fight 1  -  42 FP were captured by a force 1/4 their size, but then recovered. Seems very broken, but this is what happened.

Both of the ships listed above were in Fight 3 wich sustained 30.75 FP across 13 units, so each unit took 2.25 each wich is less then either ships FP.

Browning - 4.75 for just the Winchester
Drake - 6.75 for just the Whirlwind.

[Dave Baughman]

Okay, so for fight 1  -  42 FP were captured by a force 1/4 their size, but then recovered. Seems very broken, but this is what happened.

Both of the ships listed above were in Fight 3 wich sustained 30.75 FP across 13 units, so each unit took 2.25 each wich is less then either ships FP.

Browning - 4.75 for just the Winchester
Drake - 6.75 for just the Whirlwind.

The damage shoudl be applied to the threatened ships first before any other damage is allocated, so basically the 11.50 FP needed to sink those ships would be consumed first, then the remaining 19.25 would be split evenly over your force.

[Fatebringer]

Okay, that makes sense. Will try to remember what I did with them.

[LittleH13]

Sorry Dave I didn't see your post but it is good to see that you and I are on the same page...........You are just the Good Cop I guess.   


Here is the link for the rule. We will go by the rule and not talk about how a certain #@$@#%$!#$%!#$%!#$%!#$%! former GM did things.

http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=147.msg1048#msg1048

The ships that rolled low take enough damage to kill them then the remainder can be spread out to the other units fighters and droppers.

My apologies for intruding on your thread, but is the Drake and Browning actually destroyed?

Yes, they failed their 5+ rolls in regards Fight #3, however the Terran's only did 30.75FP damage to the CSR forces in that fight.  I've seen before when Oliveash distributed the FP losses evenly across all the different units in a naval fight such as this.  The smaller ships got ravaged, but the larger ships (such as Luxors), survived.

So you might find that the Drake and Browning only suffered around 3FP in actual damage, which is less than their total FP ship value.

Just a thought (and unless we have new battle damage breakup determinations).

[Fatebringer]

The part of what Dave said that kills my ships is this

"The damage shoudl be applied to the threatened ships first before any other damage is allocated,"

Before this, I thought that damage was applied evenly to all units.