OOC Thread

[Holt]

Remember New Hope Station is a space station.

In regards to the New Hope Station: Was it not so that the attacker stated his forces with him so the defender could choose what he would defend with? If so, there is a big lecture of the Steel Viper in order.

Also, my inner Patriot wants to bid everything there is at his disposal but that would create many other problems. Meta and ingame. Meta: chaos you have 3 Ships there, right? I have none, but yet enough FP to at least threaten them. :/ Unwieldy for Megamek. Not to mention the political backlash of this.

So, what to do?

I mean, its a Regional Capital, once the real capital and stuff. So all should speak for bidding all. Gotta think about that.

BTW: loved your Grand Council bit. As always when you go aggressive and I am not the victim.

[Marlin]

I know that. What do you conclude outta that fact?

[Marlin]

You do not like to answer me, right? Gotta learn to live with that. 

But I would still like opinions from you peeps.

[Fatebringer]

BTW: loved your Grand Council bit. As always when you go aggressive and I am not the victim.

I do like his Crusaderness. I look forward to laying the smacketh down!

[chaosxtreme]

Sorry missed this.

Yeah I Sent 3 warships because it was a space station and a regional capital so I was expecting a big fight. Better part of a Galaxy and a half too.

And I did state what I have 1 Front Line Galaxy portions of a Garison Galaxy and 3 Points of a Naval Star.

By the way to be clear. I am not requiring a large large fight.  You want to do a Star on Star fight in Zero Gravity Im fine with it.  Mind you I was hoping you had a warship present because well I love Warship fights and I figured going for something like this would give me a chance for a single ship on single ship engagement.

What holt is trying to explain is bidding everything would work against you in MM I think. Can Mechs and Elementals fight in Space? Sure. Are they anything other then targets for a warship? nope.

And if you bid everything I have the "honorable" option of bidding everything and then it is not much of a trial. Mind you its an important world so bid apropriately.


P.S.

The clan bidding system works as such.

Attacker = I am so and so of Clan Whosiwhatsits with what forces do you contest our claim?

Defender = I am so and so of Clan Pink Fluffy Bunny I bid such and such in defense of our enclave/technology/purple people eater as we are far better bred and more honorable then Clan Whosiwhatsits

Attacker = internal bidding among lower commanders. We will face you with X forces as our honor is even greater and our breeding far less inbred.


P.P.S.

I assumed the response coming from a Star Commodore meant you had a warship or two there. I mean a Star Commodore without a Warship is a little silly. ;-)

In regards to the New Hope Station: Was it not so that the attacker stated his forces with him so the defender could choose what he would defend with? If so, there is a big lecture of the Steel Viper in order.

Also, my inner Patriot wants to bid everything there is at his disposal but that would create many other problems. Meta and ingame. Meta: chaos you have 3 Ships there, right? I have none, but yet enough FP to at least threaten them. :/ Unwieldy for Megamek. Not to mention the political backlash of this.

So, what to do?

I mean, its a Regional Capital, once the real capital and stuff. So all should speak for bidding all. Gotta think about that.

BTW: loved your Grand Council bit. As always when you go aggressive and I am not the victim.

[Marlin]

chaos: could be that you are right in Canon. Could also be that it has been forgotten but I think I remember that the rules for a batchall of the attacker involved the revelation of their forces total they brought.

Perhaps that is long gone and was only part of the 62 starting stuff when Trials really were common. Anyone else on that?

And Star Commodore: Whoever has command of large formations for Space only (on a Space Station) I would not give the rank of Star Colonel, but rather COmmodore.

And sorry, I have my Warships elsewhere to get nuked. The Cluster here is still fairly large but perhaps not more than you brought in Naval force, but of course they are not Mechs. They are Marines and fighters. As the station is very important.. I think I just have to bid all I have. I know it will become interesting afterwards and the problems of that I have already listed. TOo bad I have no advisor (other than my Cats. )

[Fatebringer]

http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=2854.msg23422#msg23422

Marlin, at least it was an init roll and not a combat roll (I always feel for those who roll 2's )

I assumed the response coming from a Star Commodore meant you had a warship or two there. I mean a Star Commodore without a Warship is a little silly. ;-)

Actually any fighter group of decent size (Cluster or above) can also be constituted as a Star Commodore, especially when it's a dedicated Naval Escort or guarding a Space Station I define whether I use a Star Colonel or Star Comodore by which tab I have the unit listed on

And if you bid everything I have the "honorable" option of bidding everything and then it is not much of a trial. Mind you its an important world so bid apropriately

A planet can chose to defend with everything, and still have honor if you've decalared a larger attacking force. If you want honor, your obliged to bid down, there is no "Honorable" Super-overbid. It's looked at as pathetic and weak, especially against spheroids. If it's an invasion, call it an invasion and don't sully the word trial

[Marlin]

Yeah, not much hope for the ship, But could be that many more will suffer.. and subsequently, the people..

We will see. It will all be cleared soon.. one way or another.

[Deathrider6]

Remember folks combat ends on the 25th I will be talking a look at several combat threads to ensure the rules are being followed. You  guys are doing a pretty good job of self policing and asking for clairfactions and assistance. I would like that to continue. I will be on briefly Saturday afternoon my time to check things over. If anything requires my full attention I will be dealing with it Sunday.

[chaosxtreme]

Yeah I shouldn't have too but if Marlin is just wanting me to post my total force points that I could possibly use for the trial first before he makes his defensive bid and then I will make my offensive bid *shrugs* fine.

[JediBear]

chaos: could be that you are right in Canon. Could also be that it has been forgotten but I think I remember that the rules for a batchall of the attacker involved the revelation of their forces total they brought.

This is correct. Codices are exchanged before any bidding is done. You are entitled to know which Galaxies and Warships you face before determining how you will face them.

It's also worth noting that the choice of venue is to the defender.

It is quite possible, for example, to bid everything you have and insist on fighting inside the station or on a nearby lifeless rock. Or even in another system entirely.

In order to deny the Defender this chance, the Attacker can actually preempt the Defender's bid, functionally becoming the Defender themselves.

I'm not sure any of that is how the FGC rules actually work though. Been a while, and I should probably refresh my memory.

[chaosxtreme]

Thing is Jedi Bear I did that.

Galaxy Commander etc and Omicron Galaxy with elements of Pi Galaxy along with 3 Points of Delta Naval Star.

Was very clear from the get go who was there to take their stuff.

[Fatebringer]

Oh, the many many questions I've asked people regarding the specifics of declaring combats. The following is how I follow the rules.

The attacker and defender must declare actions and forces. However, they can use general words to describe these forces if they are trying to play their hands to their chest. It is not until forces actually meet that specific force lists must be declared, although, it is considered good form to give a description of what people can see with the naked eye. Example: "The forces of the New Dominion arrive at the Nadir Point, jump signatures of various masses show a large fleet pushing into Draconis space..."

I myself would typically include number of jump signatures and mention how many larger ones are there that can only be warships, etc.

If an interdiction is declared, then you declare your intentions to stay put, go home, engage it, or try to have your ground forces run the unknown orbital defenders. The total FP's for that engaggement must be declared in the thread at that time. Specific can be sent via PM or just put in the post if you don't care about keeping it a secret, but must be sent to your opponent. When you take damage to your units, inform your opponent how you split up the damage. Where you take damage is your choice. I got to watch half a Terran Fleet survive with less then 1 FP each because of that

Now for Clan Trials, I'm honorable, so I transmit aaaaall data to my opponent immediately with my batchall. The Defender chooses his forces and the location.

I've only overbid a defensive bid once since I've been playing, and that was because I strongly believe all 7 ships would have been needed to face off against that Leviathan II the Bears sent to outpost. Yes, the FP was nearly twice what the Levi II was worth, but still.... IT WAS A LEVI II! Plus the challenge was for my only Inner Sphere holding and I did not have the time to relocate while trying to plan my attacks against the TH

The attacker bid should almost always be an underbid! Even if it's a token -.25 FP off a large defender's bid. I will always give mad props to the Star Adders for taking that 3 to 1 challenge and beating me. Dishonorable as their use of physical attacks to end the fight was, the accomplishment itself outshined that flaw in the Adder's behavior, and oh yes, I will remember it for the next time I find 1-3 FP challenges to be managable in megamek and try to stick in that range. Outside factors like alliances and rivalries figure into my bidding as well. I rarely underbid against a Viper, and I give Blood Spirits better odds.

[Iron Mongoose]

In as much as there's no consesus, this Adder/Mandrill/Mongoose/whatever (though not as a Jaguar, since I tend to play them as an extra specal sort of ultra concervitive) has always tended to feel that physical attacks are just an extention of their mech's native capabilities and a demonstration of the warrior's skill (the change to TW rules that links physical attacks to piloting skill helps this argument), even though this Adder/Mandrill/Mongoose/whatever is aware that many of his opponents will tend to frown on his tactics.  He invites them to face him in a circle of equals (a really small one that favors point blank combat  ) if they take issue with it.

As to bidding, the problem with bidding in canon vs bidding with FP is that in canon, its quite possible to bid a 'smaller' force that is infact 'stronger' by having more weight or skill or speed than its opponents.  So, if the Adders bid to defend a world with a green binary of light clan mechs (.75 FP) and the Falcons bid to take the world with a single star of elite warriors in medium clan mechs mechs (if I do the math in my head right, this is 50% more FP) then we, though the OOC lense of our FP system, would see this as dishonorable, while a purely IC, canon-esq Clanner would be able to view that as quite an acomplishment, using half the number of mechs and a smaller amount of total tonnage (depending on the exact bid, but let's say it is) to win; if the Adder warriors are poor and the Falcon ones are not, then that's the Adder's problem, and not the Falcon's problem.  But, with that OOC lense in place, the Falcons would need to oppose that binary with far less than a star (I think three mechs would do it). 

IC, Clanners want to put themselves in a position where its their combat skill that makes the difrence between victory and defeat (in that first example, if the Adders were veterans and the Falcons were regulars, they'd have little chance to win; only the Falcon's superior skill enables a relitively easy win).  In this game, we're asking forces to not just put them selves in a place were its in the hands of skill as a warrior, we're asking them to factor skill in, and since MM is rare, simply put themselves in a place where it up to luck, and they're on the wrong end of the odds.  I don't think, speaking for myself OOC as a player and also IC as a Clanner, that that is really what Kerensky had in mind.

If MM was on the table, that would be difrent.  I've got no problem winning or losing by my own MM skill, since I have confidance in myself.  But I've got not a lick of confidance in the RNG to win me battles, and I'm loath to make it's job any harder, no matter what IC needs might offer.

I don't know that there's a solution contained in there.  Its just how I feel about it.

[Fatebringer]

There is always a chance to abuse the power, no matter which way you do things. In the Flashpoint game, a "Fair" FP exchange was a super legedary trinary of Wolf's Dragoons fighters vs a Thera and it's escorts FP wise, they were equal, but in reality, I don't care how good you are, without fiat or some other special event, your not going to be able to make up that difference in an actual game.

In the FGC picking your forces with FP can be completely unbalancing as well. A binary of mechs can vary completly and factions that go for personality over twinkage, can find themselves easily outbalanced. The following match up is no where near equal, but are each worth .6 FP


Team 1 (13997 BV)
Executioner A
Turkina B
Dire Wolf C

Team 2 (7651 BV)
Bane
Gargoyle Prime
Pheonix Hark IIC


When I first joined up with the FGC, there were the trials for the Star League Naval Stars and the GM's warned us not to twink out our forces. I made sure to pick a diverse group from my faction, only to have to face off against a star of Pulse / Tarcomp monsters. The loss cost me a star with a Monsoon in it and I learned the essense of the FGC, people will do what they want. I choose to keep flavor in my forces and will do my damndest to add good mechs to my RAT so that I can pick good mechs and still keep my flair.

To be clear, I still prefer the FP system over RAT charts because I don't like to be limited to what I can use.