OOC Thread

[Holt]

When can we expect a decision to be made if we can issue orders to units in the homeworlds?

[Daemonknight]

decision has already been made, you'll be finiding out before the end of the turn what the status is of units in the homeworlds.

[Holt]

K

[Dave Baughman]

If anyone's wondering what's up with the battle damage assessment for the six small LC vs. CSA trials, here's what Chaos and I did.

Each planet was decided by a one on one 'Mech duel. We each took three Lyran 'mechs and three CSA 'mechs. The 1.5 FP forces were given a Clan heavy, the 1.0 forces got an IS tech heavy. Since this was highly abstract, we pretty much made all units open for use, hence some of the oddball choices.

The IHGR Barghest, BTW is pretty cool. Too bad that Night Gyr had giant brass balls and really good luck and took five (five!) IHGR slugs and heaven only knows how many capped LPPCs without missing a beat.

[Cannonshop]

The big battle at Kowloon was so epic, it crashed the server after each turn.  note to self:

Don't load 74 smallcraft again.  Movement took FOREVER.

Other lessons learned:

AAM and other advanced external fighter ordinance don't work with Squadrons in V.35.24-the system won't let them, not even when you load them onto the airframes BEFORE loading them into the Squadron (or after, for that matter).  They DO work, if you leave the fighter separate, but that kind of destroys the squadron 'capability', and you can't use the Vectored (i.e. realistic and quicker) movement system with squadrons in that version.

Other lessons: if the other side has a big, integrated, point-defense net, your battletaxis won't last the fire phase once they're close enough to be useful, it's almost not worth it.

This means you REALLY want lots of PD if you're going to fight a fleet action.  lots of it.

Interdictors are nice...very nice... too damn tough to one-shot, and they eat fighters, smallcraft, and other dropships for breakfast.

the fleet battle over the weekend was fun, in spite of everything.  We gave up after five turns, so the final outcome is going to be handled by GM staff to the benefit of the sanity of all (and by mutual agreement-it took over an hour to complete each turn, with more than half of that being just movement thanks to the vast horde of taxis and escorts on the Kowloon side-the other half of the overlong turn being the fire-phase from the WoB/TH/whoeverthehelltheyare fleet.  average firing time for them using simultaneous fire was about 45 minutes longer than the defending side!)

[Dave Baughman]

average firing time for them using simultaneous fire was about 45 minutes longer than the defending side!)

Yeah, that integrated AAA system you were talking about... I can't complain about the results, but actually directing all the fire was a pretty daunting task.

[Fatebringer]

I miss the old MegaAero game, where it was a seperate game entirely and you could create a floatilla to fire as one group If we had that option, we wouldn't have to lose the realism of having CAPs.

[chaosxtreme]

true true

[Deathrider6]

Strange things are afoot in the UIW...interesting fight.

[Cannonshop]

Kind of a shame that only NPC Mercs get a Dragoons rating, while the state-sponsored ones don't.  It would make an interesting basis of comparison between success rates, faithfulness to contract, and relative effectiveness.

[Deathrider6]

Well ya can't have everything...

[chaosxtreme]

But but....if I can't have everything how am I supposed to lord my inherent superiority over the commoners! Guards off with his head!

[Iron Mongoose]

As to the ease or lack thereof that the LC is having fighting the Adders (as opposed to, say, the Hellions), I have to refer those questions to the retired Star Adder players. The GM team is playing their defense using the resources left to us when those players left, and early on we decided not to fiat in additional forces for either side of the conflict.

Now, I'd intended not to revisit this, because my oppinions are rather similar to Parm's, but I'm laid up for the day so I had time and I did anyway, and this is what I saw.

Yes, the Adder plan was a lighting counter attack at Tharkad.  As near as we could tell, leaving a path to Tharkad open was an oversite, and we felt that if we musted a large force we could exploit it and for a trial for the capitol world, in which we could impress on the Lyrans the nature of their tactics first hand and hopefuly come to an agreement by which future trials might be conducted with a bit of honor. 

The first part of that was derailed by a simple innitive roll (had we won, we'd have beat the blockade and been on our way, after all).  The next was in part my fualt; I failed till too late to think in terms of delaying tactics, and so I didn't take the nessissary action to win quickly and move on.  I would also submit that my frusteration twards the end, and the reaction of other players and GMs to that frusteration, affected the outcome of that action negitively.

Now, let's look beyond that.  The defences we set then were just for that turn.  It was important to ensure that the Lyrans couldn't then and there reverse our action with an attack on Addergard or another key world, so they became fortresses while other worlds were stripped, because we expected we'd be able to insist of fair trials, in which case even one warrior with a pointy stick would have as good a chance as a million in mechs. 

But, with the falure of plan A, sticking with the deployments made for plan A became silly.  The assumptions that underlay plan A were no longer sensable after that.  For example, because we still belived we could win at that time against the Lyrans, we actualy asked other Clans not to take significant action against them, so that we could be seen as more vital.  But, after the Lyrans called on significant Falcon help at Vorzal, it would have been reasonable to call on our allies for help, which seems not to have taken place.  With the largest part of the fleet distroyed, it would have been reasonable to reposition remaining units, which did not take place.  It would have been reasonable to unleash the five strong galaxies in the Homeworlds against the Falcons, if not for a GM plot line that began right at the time it would have been least benifical to the Adders, who are very strong in the HW.

Yes, the GMs can salve their conciance by saying "well, we were just playing out the Adders' plan" and be techicaly right.  But, I would critisize the GMs for not doing any planning of their own, once the plan became clearly obsolite (and I can point to the exact moment that took place: July 31st, 11:45 AM).  Its akin to the French in WWI trying to carry out their own pre war plans in the face of the German attacks through Belgum.  Adder plans assumed the presence of planners, who could adjust the plans as needed.  They didn't call for the Adders to become dears in the headlights and just sit there and take it after things started to fall appart.

So I'm at ease admiting that I made a number of mistakes, absolutly.  But I don't think that if some one even simiactive had been placed at the helm of the Adders and of the Hellions, things would look quite the way they do today, and that's a big part of the reason I haven't come around much like I once did.

[Dave Baughman]

Yes, the GMs can salve their conciance by saying...

Really? I'm sorry IM, but are you really trying to imply that I should somehow feel that I have made a moral or ethical failure for not investing the time to make sure that an abandoned faction makes optimal moves (at the expense of other priorities, like resolving open combat threads, working on rules fixes, and writing RP)?

I'm OK with constructive criticism, but this is getting silly. I get it that you guys are upset things aren't going well for your former faction - I would feel the same way if all the Dominion players bailed and then the ND got mauled; after all, be both put a lot of time into those factions and seeing them in decline isn't fun. Having said that, I think it is uncalled for you to call my character into question over the GM team's handling of an abandoned player faction.

Not that long ago, there were three players in Clan Star Adder. For a variety of reasons, some of them having to do with legitimate real-life constraints, but many of them also involving being unwilling to tolerate the "settling in" period of a new GM, you all left this game. All of you are still welcome here, and I appreciate your commentary and insight, but please don't rip into me for not putting as much time into your former faction as a team of three players did.

[Iron Mongoose]

I don't think that, no.  I think we all knew that any faction that has no players will nessissarly suffer.

I think the point is: call it what it is.  You've just admitted not putting much time into the Adders, and I don't blame you for that and I don't think anyone else does. 

But, I've seen also a lot of posts that lay this all on the ex-Adders.  Other posters (not you, Dave, since you are a genuinely good guy) sometimes even call into qustion the reasons that many players quit around that time in way that I don't think are appropreate.  So what I mean to reject is the notion that the disasters are entirely the fualt of the positive actions we took when we were in the game, setting our deployments and laying plans and such.  I don't think that's the case, and though I don't think you think that's the case, one can read that from the post I quoted.

I think we both agree that the falure of the Adders and of the Hellions is that they are unled, and I don't reject that, and I don't say that the GMs had ought to do it.  But, if that is what it is, then say that, and don't keep refrencing back to me and to Grae and the Marlin as our actions (asside from the action of quitting) is what doomed our factions.  That is my whole point. 

Now, looking back, I think I made that point poorly, and I do appologize.  I think, as you correctly surmise, some of that is just bitterness comming out, and with no players to point to there's no one to speak to but the GMs, who are after running all the factions presently in the war.