OOC Thread

[Daemonknight]

Pretty sure 'encircle and capture' sums it up about as well as can be expected. Your forces got encircled...and captured...

[Deathrider6]

Well being that the Marians are on the ropes we'll just have to see what the next turn brings the rolls were high and the fights were very,very bloody. I would not want to be doing any recon of those hexes at this point....

[Marlin]

Pretty sure 'encircle and capture' sums it up about as well as can be expected. Your forces got encircled...and captured...

Well, no. Its not as easy if you look at the force encircled and the force the Marians had available. The captured stuff itself is larger than the defense. So, I cannot see it that easily. As I lack the time for proper RP, a real shame, I would really like some thoughts on this. (A Batt is managing them away from battle and then bluff them to think they are about to get nuked or something like that, and the GalCom there has no Comms anymore and powers down to save his dudes.) But not an encirclement by itself. That would be rather stretching it.

Anyway, the salvage is still TBD? Are the threads done then?

[Cannonshop]

Pretty sure 'encircle and capture' sums it up about as well as can be expected. Your forces got encircled...and captured...

Well, no. Its not as easy if you look at the force encircled and the force the Marians had available. The captured stuff itself is larger than the defense. So, I cannot see it that easily. As I lack the time for proper RP, a real shame, I would really like some thoughts on this. (A Batt is managing them away from battle and then bluff them to think they are about to get nuked or something like that, and the GalCom there has no Comms anymore and powers down to save his dudes.) But not an encirclement by itself. That would be rather stretching it.

Anyway, the salvage is still TBD? Are the threads done then?

No, it just means that little scrub force out-fought and out-generalled the larger force, but didn't have the sheer numbers to survive when the enemy called in backup.

[Marlin]

You can certainly try to write it down, Cannon, have a go and have fun. I just dont see it that way. But if you do the RP, at least it will be glorious. And the Caesar DID fight well enough. (or the Cats fought rather badly)

[Cannonshop]

You can certainly try to write it down, Cannon, have a go and have fun. I just dont see it that way. But if you do the RP, at least it will be glorious. And the Caesar DID fight well enough. (or the Cats fought rather badly)

Seems to me to be a little of column "a" and a little of column "b", Marlin.  The Cats obviously NEEDED a minimum overmatch in numbers-they didn't have the chops to fight it out evenly, and that goes for both major attacks they launched.  The lesson from the Marian conflict is that the Spirit cats are BIG...

They're just not very GOOD.

which should be an embarassment for the Spirit Cats-they had to use raw numbers AND technological superiority, and the foe they used these on not only beat them man-for-man, but inflicted heavy damage on their vaunted fleet, and the only saving grace they had?

Manpower, they won by outnumbering, not by superior warrior skill.  A couple more Alphards or Lotharios and the Spirit Cats should (if the Clans are being 'Clan like') appear to be QUITE weak to the other Clans in the Grand Council.  After all, they had to out-number a pathetic periphery state, and still took heavy losses.

From a Clan Traditionalist or Crusader point of view, that's an awful lot of waste for not much gain, and coming on the heels of losing New Hope Station...

Thankfully, I don't have to worry-the Clans that might see this as an advantage to exploit aren't on my borders so I don't have to worry about spillover on to the UIW from someone else taking advantage of this perceived weakness on your part, nobody's going to be demanding safcon to pass through my territory into yours.

From an IS perspective, on the other hand, witnessing someone you share a border with, launch a war of extermination against someone else with no pretext, nor cause, an un-provoked war, is frankly disturbing as all get-out.  Means we don't have a safe border there, means all that silence is 'scary silence' on the diplomatic front.  Means making sure my alliances are close enough to call on if you decide to head north.

[Marlin]

I thought about your fears, which are obvious. Without any input or stuff however, I lack the time and will to change it right now, though. Fact is, you did nothing to approach the Cats and they saw no need (and I lack the time and stuff to do it ) so it is like it is.

One thing you could think about though: being hurled at with dozens of nukes does not make a Warrior happier or better, I say. Anyway, no time to RP, take it up if you want, I am serious. Or tell me to shove off. Lest I will pester you more with that.

[Cannonshop]

I thought about your fears, which are obvious. Without any input or stuff however, I lack the time and will to change it right now, though. Fact is, you did nothing to approach the Cats and they saw no need (and I lack the time and stuff to do it ) so it is like it is.

One thing you could think about though: being hurled at with dozens of nukes does not make a Warrior happier or better, I say. Anyway, no time to RP, take it up if you want, I am serious. Or tell me to shove off. Lest I will pester you more with that.

The nukes were used exactly as Nukes should be used, the sheer size of the force coming in is enough that the user has no other options-you backed them into a corner from which their ONLY rational alternative was using the weapons-I was frankly surprised that they didn't use them in the ground battle, but instead restricted them to the naval engagement.  That many enemies, they didn't have any option BUT the nuclear option.  as the attackers, the Cats didn't even give them the lip-service excuse of a Trial-this was a straight curbstomp-by-quantity, it's doubtful anyone BUT the Cats would have the slightest pang over the warship losses they suffered-after all, it isn't like you were going against a first-rate navy armed with comparable vessels, you were up against back-benchers, and sent your front-liners in force, under ROE that, given the Clan pattern, would read to either a Clan observer, or an Inner Sphere observer used to dealing with the Clans, is unrestricted.

Which in turn means the Spirit Cats set the rules of further conflict on "no Holds barred".

at this point, there's nothing the Marians or their allies can do short of nuking/bombarding surface targets, that isn't hoyle against the Spirit Cats-they've already tossed Clan Honour rules out the window, and it can be argued Inner Sphere rules as well.

That's the exterior perception, anyway.

[Fatebringer]

Trying to find out two things, why the second crit was rerolled. Typically either an effect is stacked or irellavant and why is the hex contested? The Marians had 51 FP left, and the Cats did 52 damage... that should whipe out defending force...

[Parmenion]

Trying to find out two things, why the second crit was rerolled. Typically either an effect is stacked or irellavant and why is the hex contested? The Marians had 51 FP left, and the Cats did 52 damage... that should whipe out defending force...

Indeed.  Good pickup Fate.

[Daemonknight]

the hex is contested because there is another control world the Cats failed to attack this turn. Might not have any defenders, but they still didn't hit it. Same with the Lothario hex

[Fatebringer]

Aaaah. Hex is contested, not world is contested. Gotcha

[Marlin]

Cannon, of course that can be one POV. However, eliminating a pirate state that collaborated or still does with the WOB is good for the Clans. The Terrans are still out there. The other option could have been to try to negotiate. That was not used by the Marians and well, after they tossed out nukes like candy it isnt for either party.

BTW, I just followed the plan laid out by the last Cat player, and the whole logistics of the Cats were quite impressive if you ask me. You don't but lets find some points in their favor here.

[Cannonshop]

Cannon, of course that can be one POV. However, eliminating a pirate state that collaborated or still does with the WOB is good for the Clans. The Terrans are still out there. The other option could have been to try to negotiate. That was not used by the Marians and well, after they tossed out nukes like candy it isnt for either party.

BTW, I just followed the plan laid out by the last Cat player, and the whole logistics of the Cats were quite impressive if you ask me. You don't but lets find some points in their favor here.

But the Marians have a twenty-year (actually longer) history of NOT ACTING LIKE PIRATES.

You attacked a neighbour you've been at peace with for the last twenty years, with a massive "Destroy them" force.

but no pretext, no justification IC, no attempt at communication prior.

The faction that ends up looking the pirate, are the Spirit Cats in this scenario, not the Marians.

Points in the Cats' favour?

They're bigger than the Marians, with more hardware, that's more advanced...


The 20 year gap at restart is plenty of time to change Hugin's policies, it's not like we're still playing in 3070 here, the diplomatic and military terrain are considerably changed from when Hugin planned this.

[Marlin]

The jump did only delay the invasion. If not for the jump, they would have been there already.

I say its better they actually do something instead of rot away senselessly.

And the marians are still Pirates. The Interwebs has spoken. Seriously, its useless to argue about that here.