OOC Thread

[Dave Baughman]

I feel that my opinion about Orbital Bombardments were kinda forced on me because right as I was coming in and the 2nd battle of Sudeten was going down. I was so ready to pull the tigger until people told me about the Ares II Convention and how we signed it

Now while it specifically states "General" Orbital Bombardment, not "Tactical" is forbidden, I still percieve in my mind the drawbacks of using any type of OB order. I know the day is coming where my hand will be forced, but unitl then, I'll try to avoid it. Use it as a last ditch effort, not a first.

I think Ares II actually banned all Orbital Bombardment. That was one of Victor's more extreme white-hat projects.

[Cannonshop]

Well, the fortress is buried in a mountain. The FWL doesn't know where the entrances are. And even if they did, targeting a door the size of a battlemech from 60,000 kilometers away, with a weapon designed to hit targets themselves almost a kilometer long(without atmospheric intetference btw), is not exactly 'precise'. So no, they can't just blast the doors and trap everyone inside the castle.


And besides, that kinda takes the fun out of the game a bit, don't you think? I mean, if they can create '100 ton' vetical tanks, with magical armor that only weighs 15-20 tons but can withstand the force of a nuclear blast...pretty sure they can make a bunker complex that can withstand orbital fire. Lasers and PPCs are still weapons that deal their damage from heat transfer, making them semi-useless here(as I said, theres a mountain on top of them). That leaves Autocannons and Naval Gauss...again, suffering from accuracy issues, assuming you hit the target, i'm pretty sure that if they decided to rib the tunnels with naval-grade structural materials, even once you 'dug' down to the fortress itself, it wouldn't just be 'oh, they're burried". Plus, to orbitally bombard the fortress, you have to come within range of it's anti-orbital defenses. Thus far, the Reguluans have unleased a number of nuclear-tipped anti-warship missiles, and whose to say there isn't more of them?

A mountain's a pretty big target, and really, the exits have to be in fairly logical places-an exit for a 'mech, for instance, isn't going to be 500 feet up a straight granite face, it's going to need some kind of ramp at minimum, and there are likely exit/entry or service roads that can be seen from the air.

Those tunnels might be ribbed with naval-grade materials, but the ground they're set in is still rock and dirt, an if the doors ARE big enough to admit/release battlemechs, that makes them large artillery or airstrike targets-and you don't need to hit the door, you just need to hit the rock around it-the idea isn't to open the hole, it's to CLOSE the hole.

You pattern the bombardments to make rockslides, then watch and see where they're having to dig out.  Use the return-fire from the ground to zero in on their launch facilities and/or sensor nets-that stuff has to run near-or-above-the-surface.  That makes it secondary target material for the next pass.


Second method's a little dirtier-Regulus has been inhabited for a LONG time, and mountains happen on basically one kind of ground-faultlines.

Aim at the faultline.

If Regulus has an active core (Which means a magnetic field, which in turn means everyone gets to live outside a dome), then you put enough force on one of those lines, it's going to shake something.  Alternately, for about three days' thrusting, you can probably tugboat a half-kilometer rock up to 50M/S, and it's just maps and calculus, both of which FWLN people SHOULD have access to, because a Mountain isn't in Motion, and planetary motion is VERY predictable-it's not going to jink-anyone who can land a dropship, can drop a rock.

Hell, for that matter, you don't need one that big.  500 tonnes of undifferentiated silica asteroid and a dropship to push it is all you really need-you don't even need to come from the mid or outer system for that, since you're not trying to crack the planet.

[Fatebringer]

((nods)) When it comes down to RPing stuff like that, don't forget heat and seismic imaging 

[Giovanni Blasini]

I feel that my opinion about Orbital Bombardments were kinda forced on me because right as I was coming in and the 2nd battle of Sudeten was going down. I was so ready to pull the tigger until people told me about the Ares II Convention and how we signed it

Now while it specifically states "General" Orbital Bombardment, not "Tactical" is forbidden, I still percieve in my mind the drawbacks of using any type of OB order. I know the day is coming where my hand will be forced, but unitl then, I'll try to avoid it. Use it as a last ditch effort, not a first.

I think Ares II actually banned all Orbital Bombardment. That was one of Victor's more extreme white-hat projects.

Is there a list of the signatories to that still around?

[Dave Baughman]

I feel that my opinion about Orbital Bombardments were kinda forced on me because right as I was coming in and the 2nd battle of Sudeten was going down. I was so ready to pull the tigger until people told me about the Ares II Convention and how we signed it

Now while it specifically states "General" Orbital Bombardment, not "Tactical" is forbidden, I still percieve in my mind the drawbacks of using any type of OB order. I know the day is coming where my hand will be forced, but unitl then, I'll try to avoid it. Use it as a last ditch effort, not a first.

I think Ares II actually banned all Orbital Bombardment. That was one of Victor's more extreme white-hat projects.

Is there a list of the signatories to that still around?

I think there is a copy of it in the Archives. I will take a peek and see what I can find.

[Dave Baughman]

Apr. 12, 3064 - The Lyran Alliance hosts the 3064 Ares Conventions via HPG, with the intent on standardizing warfare between the Clans and the Inner Sphere. Delegations Present: SLDF, Word of Blake, Federated Suns, Clan Snow Raven, Clan Ghost Bear, Clan Steel Viper, Clan Wolf-in-Exile, Capellan Confederation, Clan Coyote, Marian Hegemony, Lyran Alliance, MRBC, Clan Wolf, Comstar.

The Ares Conventions are subsequently amended as follows:

Article I -- Nuclear Arms The use of any nuclear explosive device or variant thereof (To include so called "Dirty Bombs") is hearby banned from use in any situation. Manufacture or stockpiling of nuclear weapons is banned. This article does not inhibit the use of nuclear technology for legitimate science or civilian efforts such as nuclear power plants.

Article II -- Orbital Bombardment The use of orbital assets to bombard any targets on a planetary surface is prohibited. Further WarShips will not approach with in a 1000 kilometers of a planets interface layer unless expressly allowed by the governing body of the planet or its parent government.

How many of these factions still honor the Conventions, however, is a matter open to debate.

[Cannonshop]

((nods)) When it comes down to RPing stuff like that, don't forget heat and seismic imaging 

There's also the Amontillado solution, but that requires having a regiment of engineers and enough combat units to keep the defenders busy while they work.  The base concept being that you don't need to take the fortress, you don't even need to burrow inside-you just have to prevent the defenders from LEAVING.  Eventually they'll run out of food, water, and other consumables because they're sealed in, and since the tunnels are reinforced with Naval-grade structural materials, any blasting to remove the obstacle is going to be just as dangerous to the guys doing it, as you could hope to expose them to with weapons fire.  (Newton's a bitch that way, and Boyle's Law still applies to a sealed container...)

[chaosxtreme]

Not to mention air.

If you are pounding new relief's in the mountain. You are most definitely taxing/eliminating their air circulation system. eitheir through damage, or ya know super heating the air outside of the mountain.

Starved, dehydrated, or asphyxiated dead is dead.

[Deathrider6]

Back when I was running the Skye portion of the Lyrans I had units assault a fortified position (defiance industries) and it was brutal that was after using Tactical Orbital bombardment and my losses were still on the heavy side. Conventional wisdom indicates that a three to one advantage is the bare minimum for such operations and you definately want air support on call at minimum.

[GreyJaeger]

Back when I was running the Skye portion of the Lyrans I had units assault a fortified position (defiance industries) and it was brutal that was after using Tactical Orbital bombardment and my losses were still on the heavy side. Conventional wisdom indicates that a three to one advantage is the bare minimum for such operations and you definately want air support on call at minimum.

Generally speaking, military doctrine pretty much states that when assaulting fortified positions, 3:1 odds is the minimum you want to take in. Otherwise, besiege them.

[Deathrider6]

Looks like business is starting to pick up a few major fights in the CC/SS...nice.

[Dave Baughman]

I approve this message.

[Deathrider6]

Have fun Dave..

[Giovanni Blasini]

See, and I've been more jazzed about the Gran Turismo 5 update I just installed, and have only spent maybe an hour with since, especially since I've nearly perfectly duplicated my Bug: the Gran Turismo one's topping out at around 104 mph, whereas I've gotten my real one up to around 105 mph with RPMs to spare - best guess is around 110 mph top speed...and I've still got upgrades to do on the real one.

[Deathrider6]

Who hoo! Gunfight on Bremen! Will CBS finally crush the Society OR will the tables be turned? I am looking forward to this even if I have to have a proxy fight it.