[RP/MM] Turn 41 - CSR vs. CW : Tamar (2514) Invasion? *CONTESTED*

[NVA]

10 FP convert to Guerilla Warfare orders.  GMs ruled this essentially means they are hiding out in space and have standard GW affects.
70 FP move to engage the opposing fleet on Naval Engagement Orders.  Since I don't have exact FPs on what is left, since it will all die, this includes all the warships.

RP - "saKhan, your forces took grievous losses.  You have been given an opportunity to accept hegira and withdrawl with your honor intact.  You accuse us of suggesting that you would use dezgra tactics, like those you fight alongside.  Well, when you sleep with smelly snakes, you are going to smell like them.  We have not fought along side the Hegemony to date and for a reason.  We do not hold you responsible for the actions that other clans take against us, until you fight with them.  Do not hold the Terran's actions against us.  Withdraw and we can begin SAR operations.  Otherwise, let us dance again.  Do any of you have the stomach for an honorable fight?  Or, shall you cower behind your numbers to ensure your victory?"

[Fatebringer]

For your numbers, CW : 84.75 FP remaining in ASF / Warships
http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=659.msg10131#msg10131

So it appears the 10 FP in Guerilla Naval Force are apparently hiding in that Asteroid Belt.

Q: What will the remaining 4.75 FP of Wolves be doing? (Default is Defensive Interdiction)
Q: Will "Space" Guerilla Warfare be a Permanent Rule?
Q: Can there be more then one Guerilla Force in a system? (AKA Ground and Sky?)
Q: Are there any Warships in the Guerilla Force?

[NVA]

Q1 - They are on default orders.  They are 'behind' the NE force and can't be used or targetted until the NE is dealt with.
Q2 - Space GW is not new.  Nothing in the rules ever prohibited it.
Q3 - An interesting question...Dave did not weigh in on that possibility, as he did on the rest.
Q4 - No.  If I had calculated the exact FPs out, I might have had the Agincourt stay in the held back force.  But, I went for simple. 

[Fatebringer]

A1: Per the PM's I got from the GM, I believe I can engage both the Naval Engagement and the Default Defensive Interdiction just like last time. You are in the new PM.
A2: I've never seen this before, but I guess there are plenty of places in space a unit can go hide. The GM's gave you a nice Asteroid belt from wich to nuke us from if you have anymore
A3: I'm guessing if they are 2 different areas of combat, then yes. The idea of Space Guerilla Forces will lead to many further questions.
A4: You may not, but if this is a permanant rule, I would like clarification for further turns.

[Iron Mongoose]

Ordanarily, I'd do this as a PM, but with so many people involved I didn't want to miss anyone or seem to be sneeking around on it:

The precedent is that space guerilla is not permissable, at least under the previous administration.  I've asked on a few occasions, such as at Irian as one I can remember, and was told no: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,40363.msg985314.html#msg985314

Now, its the right of the GMs to change that, but its not correct to say its always been that way, and that answer has informed my decisions in subsiquent actions, and perhaps thouse of others as well, who might have asked for space guerilla if not for the knolage that it had been prohibited, so I think this is a change that needs to be noted.

[NVA]

I will allow the GMs to weigh in, as it is their rulilng.

[Dave Baughman]

Last time "Space Guerilla" was attempted, the previous GM team squashed it but never changed the rule. The text of the rule doesn't restrict what units can be assigned to Guerilla Warfare.

The Rules As Written^TM always supercede prior precedent unless the current GM team specifically make an exception. GM exceptions are not precedent-setting unless the rules are subsequently changed.

To answer the specific questions:

1) At this time I do not plan on removing the ability of non-ground units to be designated as Guerillas. Most Star Systems have plenty of places for a small force to hide and conduct disruptive low-level warfare (though... if I were a player I would totally characterize it as piracy in my propaganda!)

2) Each faction can designate up to 10 FP of forces for Guerilla Warfare. These could conceivably be split between multiple locations or drawn from different units.

3) WarShips put on Guerilla Warfare orders need to be explicitly identified and will need to make a WarShip Survival Roll in connection with the damage they take from going onto GW.

Let me know if there are any other questions on this one...

[Fatebringer]

I'm good here. Aside from NVA declaring if one of his warships is moving to Guerilla action, I will have to re-add up all of the current Invasion Fleet as it was defined in PM's that the Wolves are engaging the Whole Fleet to prevent anyone from challenging the Defensive Interdiction. The Blockaders remain in place. Are you still sticking with the original RP where you Destroy the Nuke?

[Daemonknight]

Guerilla Warfare
Type: Invasion
Requirement: Ground forces only
Effect: Survivors from any other Battle type order may be designated as Guerillas. Any forces designated as Guerillas immediately take 1d6 FP of damage representing materiel losses in the process of going to ground. Guerilla units become Static units and cannot be moved until friendly forces regain control of the star system.

The maximum Guerilla force (per faction) in any star system is 10 FP.

quoted from the rules thread. It seems that the 'rule as written' actually does prevent space gureilla forces. Dave, does that mean you are making an exception here?

Also, it says there can be no more than 10FP of gureillas in a star system per faction. So assuming Dave makes an exception, it would allow for Space and Ground, but they'd have to combine to no more than 10FP.

Dave, to clairify: does the 10FP force that goes to ground take the 1d6 FP damage, or does the parent unit take it before the guerilla force's FP is finalized?

[Dave Baughman]

Guerilla Warfare
Type: Invasion
Requirement: Ground forces only
Effect: Survivors from any other Battle type order may be designated as Guerillas. Any forces designated as Guerillas immediately take 1d6 FP of damage representing materiel losses in the process of going to ground. Guerilla units become Static units and cannot be moved until friendly forces regain control of the star system.

The maximum Guerilla force (per faction) in any star system is 10 FP.

quoted from the rules thread. It seems that the 'rule as written' actually does prevent space gureilla forces. Dave, does that mean you are making an exception here?

Also, it says there can be no more than 10FP of gureillas in a star system per faction. So assuming Dave makes an exception, it would allow for Space and Ground, but they'd have to combine to no more than 10FP.

Dave, to clairify: does the 10FP force that goes to ground take the 1d6 FP damage, or does the parent unit take it before the guerilla force's FP is finalized?

I don't know how I missed that little detail, but the rule prevails in this case.

My apologies to anyone who my prior posts lead astray -- though in the future this is something that may be implemented.

Sorry, for now no space forces on GW.

having said that, let me answer the second question:

The 10 FP that goes to ground takes the 1d6 damage, not the parent's "non-guerilla" troops. Basically, you never have more than 9 FP on GW unless the Guerillas subsequently roll well on their guerilla table roll and get reinforced.

[NVA]

Okay.  I just need to review the other decisions, as I am STILL confused what advantage winning init provides.

[NVA]

Given some realizations, then, here goes, again.

75 FP moves forward for NE. 
All warships included. 
Nuke to be destroyed.

[Fatebringer]

So that defaults your 9.75 FP to DI as your 75 FP of Warship push forward to engage the Entire Invasion Fleet to prevent them from engaging the DI.

CSR Invasion Fleet: 1128.25 FP

[NVA]

*rubs chaos dice, prays to Gnu*

Wolf Damage Roll

[blockquote]Rolled 2d6 : 5, 4, total 9[/blockquote]

[Fatebringer]

CSR Combat Roll at over 3:1 Odds.

[blockquote]Rolled 2d6+1 : 2, 6 + 1, total 9[/blockquote]