OOC Thread #2

[Marlin]

This will enjoy the enemies of the Adders and the FWL. 

[Jeyar]

The break interdiction roll happened after the Dark's naval forces were destroyed. I can't help that it was deemed invalid afterward, in spite of being posted by the designated person. And taken down so a step by step review can't be pointed out. Shoot, can't even help that people couldn't detect that there was a second page to review, AFTER the problems of the first page were so "kindly" reset by Little (not before – OOPS! Yeah, I can see when reading a thread backwards in page count that could be confusing however, but it stings so little effort/attention was put into a "review").

Can't help even that after multiple "reviews", even the forces that WERE "around" couldn't have their damages applied as they have been elsewhere this turn. (math hard when not in a spreadsheet)

I also can't help that the TC's forces present in space weren't properly accounted for... in space (which frankly if allowed to MM I would have flat out slaughtered that force, even with far less was used), but once we were on the ground and in front of helpless chart ratios, could be read once again. And used so....

I can't help that 2 months passed with error questions (same one) not being answered for those 2 months. I went so far as to simplify production (production of 25 FP for the FS) one turn so things could be worked out. Yeah, movement errors rot. So I either have a funny 1.75 or a few hundred left (yeah, I do know I have more but)...

I can't help that the Taurian forces somehow couldn't make long term plans suddenly in their time of need that could have changed the results... literally. (Look at the decision tree of the forces fell out with the new option in the rules – I had to gasp the first time, not even looking at the rolls for one turn, my odd sense of humor then made me laugh when I read that part too.)

Couldn't help that the TC forces couldn't fight heroically [ground MM battles] - well, I knew that was going to happen along with not being allowed to do an aerospace battle, but I couldn't HELP it.

Can't help even that the Dark went against their normal pattern when Taurus was under-defended. New it was going to happen, but IC couldn't really do anything about it. Those lucky Dark... to know just when to change.

Oh, I wonder if the rest of the forces are going to accidentally show up next turn? Man their timing is so good. Brilliant to lead an assault with grunts and THEN bring in the forces to break past aerospace... Wonder why they chose that pattern... IC those Poor guys to have to do it that way...

Or help that Taurus's special defenses were gone. Nor that the TC's special weapons didn't show.

Couldn't help that one of the Dark forces bypassed TC forces 2 turns ago. On the other hand, there may be a special operation to have allowed that, or someone could have accidentally helped them, so maybe I could have... But well, to have known I would do what I would do just in time to do it...

I could (should) have held off on attacking Gant, but IC it was sort of a 50/50, and while metagaming it partially made sense, since I didn't do anything else that one could suggest was along those lines (and I really was sort of hopeful that I would be given a chance to defend Taurus in spite of my standard view of what was going to happen). One could even argue that if I hadn't attacked there I was metagaming: that I assumed I wouldn't be allowed to defend Taurus. But that was a mistake as I was setting myself up to be a victim later.

Also could have been more polite so as to not "force" the GM's to being strict (I mean look at what TC had for allowances this turn and compare to another thread's freedoms this very turn).

However even so: Hey - can we get verification that since this is another multiple of 12 we get our MP recharged, or is that next turn?

I'd post it in PM, but since as Dave saiys, I'm not going to get a message: "congratulations, you win", and the record on getting those questions answered is so low, I figured it best to post the question here.

Think I have covered all helpful advice and questions. Curious how no one uses my PM anymore, one would think that was the PREFERRED method of communication for the game...

[Marlin]

I'd like to ask for an extension to Sunday. Not that I could not finish most orders till friday, but.. it feels like sunday would be good. Esp. if we take into account that Nov. Dec. will be months with fewer forum hits.

[Iron Mongoose]

When it comes to the Adders vs the FWL, it almost makes me sad to be missing out.  Though I suppose I can still watch on, or even proxy a fight.

As to the Adders and Naval MA fights... we've fought at least a few as mech proxy fights, which I know because I fought them.  The reason I went that route was 1) I consider my self a hot hand with mechs, and relitively poor with warships, despite some attempts to learn and 2) for me especaly, its easier to see ballance in a MM fight.  We know that given the ratio of FP, there should be a given ballance, but the ways of ballancing warships are so far off from any system that its hard to know if you've got it or not, and the Adders (and the FWL in my time) were reluctant to turn an FP advantage into a table top disadvantage just because of how the system is structured.

I honestly have no idea exactly what the current situation is all about.  An inability to keep up with threads is part of why I had to bow out.  But, I expect that if both sides can settle both points, finding players of similar experiance levels and a way of ballancing the game so that both sides feel that the odds releflect what the game's mechanics say they should be, then there will be a fight.  If not, I think there will not be.

[LittleH13]

Jeyar, am I correct in reading this that you feel that everything in the thread is wrong and/or I am illiterate, and that the GM team are all metagaming to personally hose the TC? And that all the other players who looked at the thread and reached the same conclusions the GMs did are complicit in a conspiracy to hose the TC?

I'm just trying to make sure I am understanding you properly before I respond.

The break interdiction roll happened after the Dark's naval forces were destroyed. I can't help that it was deemed invalid afterward, in spite of being posted by the designated person. And taken down so a step by step review can't be pointed out. Shoot, can't even help that people couldn't detect that there was a second page to review, AFTER the problems of the first page were so "kindly" reset by Little (not before – OOPS! Yeah, I can see when reading a thread backwards in page count that could be confusing however, but it stings so little effort/attention was put into a "review").

Can't help even that after multiple "reviews", even the forces that WERE "around" couldn't have their damages applied as they have been elsewhere this turn. (math hard when not in a spreadsheet)

I also can't help that the TC's forces present in space weren't properly accounted for... in space (which frankly if allowed to MM I would have flat out slaughtered that force, even with far less was used), but once we were on the ground and in front of helpless chart ratios, could be read once again. And used so....

I can't help that 2 months passed with error questions (same one) not being answered for those 2 months. I went so far as to simplify production (production of 25 FP for the FS) one turn so things could be worked out. Yeah, movement errors rot. So I either have a funny 1.75 or a few hundred left (yeah, I do know I have more but)...

I can't help that the Taurian forces somehow couldn't make long term plans suddenly in their time of need that could have changed the results... literally. (Look at the decision tree of the forces fell out with the new option in the rules – I had to gasp the first time, not even looking at the rolls for one turn, my odd sense of humor then made me laugh when I read that part too.)

Couldn't help that the TC forces couldn't fight heroically [ground MM battles] - well, I knew that was going to happen along with not being allowed to do an aerospace battle, but I couldn't HELP it.

Can't help even that the Dark went against their normal pattern when Taurus was under-defended. New it was going to happen, but IC couldn't really do anything about it. Those lucky Dark... to know just when to change.

Oh, I wonder if the rest of the forces are going to accidentally show up next turn? Man their timing is so good. Brilliant to lead an assault with grunts and THEN bring in the forces to break past aerospace... Wonder why they chose that pattern... IC those Poor guys to have to do it that way...

Or help that Taurus's special defenses were gone. Nor that the TC's special weapons didn't show.

Couldn't help that one of the Dark forces bypassed TC forces 2 turns ago. On the other hand, there may be a special operation to have allowed that, or someone could have accidentally helped them, so maybe I could have... But well, to have known I would do what I would do just in time to do it...

I could (should) have held off on attacking Gant, but IC it was sort of a 50/50, and while metagaming it partially made sense, since I didn't do anything else that one could suggest was along those lines (and I really was sort of hopeful that I would be given a chance to defend Taurus in spite of my standard view of what was going to happen). One could even argue that if I hadn't attacked there I was metagaming: that I assumed I wouldn't be allowed to defend Taurus. But that was a mistake as I was setting myself up to be a victim later.

Also could have been more polite so as to not "force" the GM's to being strict (I mean look at what TC had for allowances this turn and compare to another thread's freedoms this very turn).

However even so: Hey - can we get verification that since this is another multiple of 12 we get our MP recharged, or is that next turn?

I'd post it in PM, but since as Dave saiys, I'm not going to get a message: "congratulations, you win", and the record on getting those questions answered is so low, I figured it best to post the question here.

Think I have covered all helpful advice and questions. Curious how no one uses my PM anymore, one would think that was the PREFERRED method of communication for the game...

[Jeyar]

Jeyar, am I correct in reading this that you feel that everything in the thread is wrong and/or I am illiterate, and that the GM team are all metagaming to personally hose the TC? And that all the other players who looked at the thread and reached the same conclusions the GMs did are complicit in a conspiracy to hose the TC?

I'm just trying to make sure I am understanding you properly before I respond.

I SHOULD wait 4 weeks before responding, or maybe "forget" because "I'm busy, too busy" even as I obviously do other things in a desultory way.

But to answer your question: No.

Now it should be obvious that the question's answer was no, I mean I would normally assume that you'd know that. However I just can't be sure. In fact, let me be clearer (or at least longer winded):

A) I'm pretty sure that most of the thread was right. However an error was made, and the divergence between what happened and what is now proclaimed as happening are different. I didn't like the not-so-random way some things were taken from prior parts of the thread and then some were tossed out. I also didn't like how even when I WAS around to ask what the TC would do in a situation, I wasn't, instead the stu – well, the method that would clean up the forces in the area was picked instead.

B) You can read, however you seem to take pleasure in getting away with causing minor hurt feelings because you are being "helpful" in almost every post you make. Frankly I figure either Dave is a good guy and you're a bully-sycophant, or Dave is an okay guy and you get all the trash dumped on you, but I don't much care either way. It's only my opinion and likely no one else feels that way. On the plus side, you are nearly the same with nearly everyone, so I don't take that personally. The way you string some people along time-wise while getting to others right away has amused me in the past because they never call you on it, but that is mostly their issue to look into.

C) I think the GM staff is metagaming in a WAY, but not against the TC - because guess what, a GM IS SUPPOSED to look at the overall picture. On the other hand we've not been shared what that vision is, nor does there seem to be any self admission that there is a drive towards certain activities. My feeling is that the GM's feel they have to "keep control" over the game to "keep it going", but because of a lack of self reflection (or admission), they don't have REAL plan to make that happen, and instead substitute rules that try to popularize (while at the same time accidentally drifting into certain directions). Not automatically bad, but not what is advertized (yet) and not real fun to some people. I'd almost expect people to leave that expect one type of game and begin to realize it isn't (at some level, not automatically consciously), but I don't really see that, so I could easily be wrong.

D)I think people looked at ELEMENTS and saw many were right (shoot, almost all was/were). I don't think they went into every item one at a time, as that is hard - plus they missed things. However errors were made, (and are still there – no really, I'm still boggled by no one noticing that some of the damage the TC did, and even written, was dropped and forgotten by the next line), except in the way that the decision is done and automatically is right since it has been made. I think Dave has finally lost his patience (I lost mine a while ago with how wonderfully efficient the GM's are with answering important questions – especially ones that THEY create situations for that make them so important) but feels he can't admit it (see that issue with "keeping the game going"), which was why his "fairness selection" worked out the way it did, but as I said before, I could have been more polite. Being polite isn't automatically dishonest.
It just feels that way some of the time.

E) Extra bonus – Oh, and I feel that GM staff can vent at things (either by being rude, sly or otherwise), then when I feel that I've been stressed (esp. when I think it wobbles into the unfair realm – like not being allowed to defend my capitol planet, just like I predicted last turn would happen), I should too.

-------
I actually think much of the time the game is going well, most of the people are being helped along nicely, and even that the TC isn't exactly a target (and wouldn't be at all if I wasn't there). However if I can guess a turn early and predict (correctly) that I won't get a chance to defend my capitol planet, then the GM's DO have some problems to work out somehow.


Just to help you respond...

[Dave Baughman]

Jeyar, I asked you nicely to stop accusing me of cheating, especially since you are 100% in error with your statement that the break interdiction occured after the first combat round was resolved (you'll note that the rolls were made in the same post as the naval engagement -- see reply #7 -- and thus are clearly invalid under the rules).

No matter how much you choose to verbally attack me or any other member of the GM Team, the rules will be enforced. Please do not mistake the fact that I choose not to lash out and retaliate against personal attacks or insults in kind for a signal that this sort of conduct is acceptable, especially on the public boards.

In fact, we have bent over backwards to accomodate you so far, including this turn where we accepted an invalid orders sheet that contained numerous errors and at least one explicit rules violation and allowed you to deploy nuclear arms that we could not find anywhere on your record sheet.

You are correct that I have lost my patience, but it has nothing to do with "admitting I am wrong" about Taurus or any other issue. I have lost patience we being on the receiving end of abuse for doing my job, and I have lost patience with the fact that rather than either accept the fact that you are in error or present actual concrete proof demonstrating that you are correct, you have instead chosen to reply with mockery of the forum staff and unsupported allusions to our alleged misconduct.

So far, I have not invoked Forum Rule #1, specifically the sections on Harassment and Trolling. As you observed, however, my patience is exhausted. Any future posts on the public forums that contain personal attacks on myself or any other member of this forum will be referred to Daemonknight, as forum moderator, to determine if a rules violation has occured.

[Cannonshop]

Orders in.

[Parmenion]

I'd like to ask for an extension to Sunday. Not that I could not finish most orders till friday, but.. it feels like sunday would be good. Esp. if we take into account that Nov. Dec. will be months with fewer forum hits.

If I to could crave the indulgence of the GMs in an extension to Sunday.  Especially for the Horse Alliance (since I keep stuffing up the transferance of orders between home and work for them).

Thanks.

[GraeGor]

Sunday would help me as well, as Im waiting on responses to a couple of questions and havent been able to connect with Dis much over the last week in order to semi-coordinate

[LittleH13]

Jeyar if you ever post about me like that again there will be action taken per the forum rules.

It is your fault for NOT defending you capital. It is your fault that YOU do not read the rules and make useless rolls because you like to roll dice.

This is a war game and risks are taken so do not give me crap about "If I had known I would have moved/left troops there. Especially when you posted this in the thread:

Noticed that Taurus has been invaded. 

I expected it (actually, I expected a MUCH larger force but that is another issue) but I had a question about unplanned reinforcement. Can you finely split your forces before they try and jump to the rescue? I ask as I've been carefully keeping track of my MP and I don't have enough to move everything from one of the 2 locations I could try and send forces from. I could another, but the size of the force is noticably smaller.

It may be clear to others, but I don't want to make plans and then (even assuming I am lucky) have them come to ruin due to my not thinking about what rules mean the same as others.

In closing I have to say this "Play the game or go to Camp Quitchabitchin'."

-Josh

[Marlin]

Again, for an extension. It is needed to finish the orders. So I ask for it again. There are some PMs open I would need. Rough orders are done and the Cats will be done today.

[LittleH13]

Extension granted to Sunday the 14th of November.

-Josh

[Marlin]

Coolio. Let's get some PMs answered, guys. (Mostly not GMs. )

[Marlin]

Cat's Orders in.