OOC Thread #2

[Cannonshop]

Coventry...I think it's been settled out.  Holy shit.

[Marlin]

There were enough voices encouraging a peaceful solution, now its over. I am not happy about it.

[GraeGor]

Let`s see if I can make a post from my phone without having to relog in...

Chaos and I are negotiating...though apparently someone didnt get the memo that the FWL was apparently doing so on behalf of the Allies   

[GraeGor]

Can I make two posts....

Now I just need to know if the recent event/attack happens before or during the negotiations...as either will alter some points

[Marlin]

I just have to ask how this mechanic worked: I assume there was a joint force by the FWL? But what happened with the Ground force still on planet that the Adders wanted to take on?

Its quite confusing.

I would have thought, the ground fight is on first as Adders won init, then come the new arrivals and their awsome force, and then they clash with the adder remnants on planet? sheesh. No doubt the adders would lose, but perhaps they would have had a chance of escape or something?

[DisGruntled]

I'm confused as well, I don't know what died, or what killed it.  (joint attack rules should have applied here shouldn't they?)

The system was also blockaded which appears to have been ignored.  It looks like there was no naval fight here which is wrong.

There were also some standing orders from last cycle that didn't get applied, that appear to have been ignored here as well.


Surprises like this are not much fun especially when they come about as a result of Holts question not being answered.

It also looks like our winning the reinforcement roll was pointless.

I'd definitely like to discuss some of the above at the least.

Edit: If I wanted to be all conspiracy nutish i can now see why we only had 3 rounds of combat last cycle.

[Holt]

Can't say that I totally understand what happened at Coventry, kinda like what happened last turn at Coventry. I also thought their was a blockade at Coventry and even noted it in an email, I am not sure if it was all lumped in with the rest of the Adder force. I was going to post all the Allied forces FP values according to the rules and post last turns information, but the thread is closed; so i will be making a new 'annex' thread with the information.

[Daemonknight]

From looking at the numbers, it appears that all Allied forces and all Adder forces(ground and Naval) were lumped into a single combat roll. This would result in all Adder forces being destroyed on the planet, and in space.


not sure why that was done, but it looks like it was.

[Marlin]

I hope it gets sorted out in any case. Not that I would win that much from it, but still.

Now I am gonna watch TV and "Sex and the City" the movie.

Will keep you informed.  

Edit: Bleh, stupidity and lack of greatness made me stop watching it. Poor Steve started the mess.

But no doubt, its gonna sort out eventually.

[Cannonshop]

Let us analyze this...

Round 1: Initiative is rolled, DCMS aviation forces engage inbound Star Adder forces (ANNOUNCED upon arrival in system at 505FP).  DCMS forces are steamrolled (as they would be) inflicting .03 or somesuch damage to the Adder unit...and delaying their landing until...

Round 2: apparently the Allies had friends on the way.  AFFS and DCMS fleet assets catch the Star Adders between the planet and the jump point.  Since this is an Aero battle, and given that the Adder aero in-system had two choices: maintain blockade, or support the landings, AND given that the Adder PLAYERS chose to announce their forces on the attack, it's everyone, folks-the Allied Fleet over-killed the Adder naval by thirty-some-odd points, consequently destroying their blocking force, landing force, and inbound ground forces with some destruction left over.


Now..."In Character" there's only one location where talks were going on-and most of the active elements in the Coventry fight didn't even know the talks were happening...IN CHARACTER.  This is what you get when you insist on 'sekrit Talks', I guess-you get loads of privacy, but unless you're communicating with the guys who are coming to punch you in the face, they don't KNOW the talks are going on-they're going to continue with their plans unless you pull the plug-and nobody pulled the plug.

Pulling the Plug likely would've involved announcing that talks were going on, maybe even announcing a cease-fire.  This did not happen, and there was ample time for it TO happen... on the OOC front, the Staff gave ONE extension from the battles over turn 44, and that was Solaris VII.  Coventry was not granted an extension...because NOBODY ASKED FOR ONE.  Instead, there was a deadline (roughly 48 hours)-a de-facto extension, since it was granted more than a month AFTER the deadline for combat in turn 44.

Thread sat fallow for a month, and I suspect this could have been averted with a single, one-sentence post ON the thread prior to last night.

"Talks have Opened, and a Cease Fire is being worked out." probably would have gotten a turn extension, or stopped the simple-resolution action. (No guarantees there, but it seems likely...)

Being as there was no announcement (Public) of that sort, the outcome seen here was largely unavoidable.

It leaves an interesting question NOW, however...what next?  It's not like that force can just up-stakes and go home in a turn, and it's about the most significant force in terms of size since second Sudeten.  Coventry is a location on a strategic crossroads. A rolling invasion headed north, west or south can gut the Adder presence, and it's large enough to present a genuine threat-a 'be good stick' threat, to the CLP given its proximity to Tharkad, as well as being sizeable enough to threaten the existence (never mind sovereignty) of the UIW, with a fair sized chance that no single entity in the area can muster (in a single turn) a force of comparable size and capability to match it.

If the desire is there (and desire alone, at this point, is all that is required), a fairly large area can be taken in the name of the Star League from at my count three factions.  Given that five hundered FP is no small concentration and probably represents 20 to 40 percent of CSA/ACW forces within five hexes of Coventry, and probably half that within ten, and the force that just assraped them is nearly three times that strength and NOT fighting in its own back-yard nor under significant strategic threat, (nobody is a significant threat to the Combine at this point, and the FedSuns is dealing effectively with the Dark with the one hand while executing this with the other...) the opportunities presented are relatively low-risk for the Allies-even if they choose to take on the more aggressive options (wiping out the UIW, for instance, or driving to Addergrad and freezing all Clan Star Adder economic activity by taking their I.S. capital world, or taking Tharkad and dictating terms to the CLP).

Strategically, for the Adders, Coventry is, therefore, a six month disaster.  (three turns), while being a crushing blow by the Star League Allied forces against a Clan Aggressor, minus some new occurrance, the odds are that the Allies will now work more closely together, and will likely become MORE ambitious as a result.  Meanwhile, the Star Adders have managed to (In Character) annoy their own allies to the edge of violence, and have made themselves look weak and foolish, and with this outcome, their fortunes in the world of Clan Politics aren't looking good. 

[Marlin]

For the strategic estimation, I agree with you CS, the analysis of the fight itself not so much. But anyhow, we are both not the ones to get that corrected.

[Deathrider6]

  It's real simple folks it may not have been pretty or perfect but the fight should have been completed December 7th. This fight was holding back orders for all the factions involved and some that were not. Today is the 5th and orders are due on the 7th. There is also the matter of the 48 hour period granted to finish the Thread that was announced publicly. No one from the Adder/SACS player base was bothered to post ANYTHING regarding this much less send a PM. Anyways the last time I checked this IS a wargame stuff dies. I would have rather had the PLAYERS deal with the Coventry battle. The lesson to be learned here is that Deadlines matter. You want to avoid a recurrance communicate and follow up. Don't wait until the GM staff have to intervene and guess what your secret plans are. If you have any issues that need to be addressed make sure they are dealt with BEFORE the end of turn clean up phase begins communications with everyone will prevent a reoccurance of this situation.

I know that some players love simpres that's fine but get your fights done before the end of the turn folks.

[Holt]

From OCC the DC point of view, they are not part of the 'peace talks' and are in charge of the operations at Coventry, so all they know is what transpired at Coventry turn 43.

As far as the resolution, it think its what happens when things are not done in a timely manner by players and GMs just come and roll over everything and it has happened more than once. The main sticking point to all this was the acceptance of who won initiative, the GM holiday break, then neglecting the second chance we got.

If the whole thing gets done over, i hope its soon as i need to still finish the DCs orders for next turn. On top of proof-checking the Sharks and Scorps.

[Cannonshop]

I'm confused as well, I don't know what died, or what killed it.  (joint attack rules should have applied here shouldn't they?)

The system was also blockaded which appears to have been ignored.  It looks like there was no naval fight here which is wrong.

There were also some standing orders from last cycle that didn't get applied, that appear to have been ignored here as well.


Surprises like this are not much fun especially when they come about as a result of Holts question not being answered.

It also looks like our winning the reinforcement roll was pointless.

I'd definitely like to discuss some of the above at the least.

Edit: If I wanted to be all conspiracy nutish i can now see why we only had 3 rounds of combat last cycle.

From where I'm sitting, it looked like it was ALL naval-your ground forces didn't make it to the dirtside before the DC reinforcements were in-system and hitting your transports, naval assets, ect. etc.

From an OOC perspective, you guys took more than a month for this, and it should have been over by (at latest) the fifteenth of last month.  You were given two full days to address it before Deathrider rolled it out, and unless you sent him a shitstorm of E-mail or something detailing your plan (which he then ignored) he was probably working with the best information available at the time (which would be two things: 1. the Thread, and 2, your orders-sheets).
Further, I think he probably gave you more slack than you earned in this fight-he gave you full value on your FP for ALL forces in-system, instead of JUST letting you penny-packet it into a string of low-casualty easy-wins for the arriving forces.  at least THIS way, your warriors got to inflict SOME damage.

(This is all assuming you didn't have some major force arriving that nobody knew about because YOU DID NOT POST IT!!!!)

Back before the FC48 game, I did about nine months running the FGC as lead GM-this was before most of the high-speed, organized, effective and reasonable actual RULES were even formulated.  If a GM has to resolve something, he's got the Players, and the Thread, to work with-if the Players don't talk to him, then he has the Thread alone.  Deathrider had the Thread, and your orders-sheets, so...

ARe you saying he abused his position, or not?

[GraeGor]

last time I negotiated for any Clans a Cease Fire was understood and taken into account...referring to the ones between the Hellions, Adders, Falcons, Camels and Arc Royal...with one or two exceptions, we stopped our advances into Arc Royal Territory

now being under the impression that the FWL was acting Lead during the Coventry battles, initial fights plus a PM from chaos verifying such, I surmised the DC/FS had agreed to the Talks taking place on Arluna...if true then those forces acted on their own; if not true, then I'll have to presume that the FWL lied about being able to negotiate on the behalf of the Allies...which will affect the negotiations going on (if they even happen if the attack takes place before they began)

not to mention that while the talks may be secret, there is still, as far as I know, Real Time HPG Comms for pretty much all factions involved

GMs need players to provide details/information I get, but those same players often are left waiting for information from the GMs in order to act/react

how many have stated, repeatedly, that they are still waiting for responses to PMs sent out 2, 3, or more weeks ago

so until I get some answers to a few of mine, I am putting a hold on all my RPing (as current events will alter shit, possibly to the point of having to start over from scratch) along with everything else that will be affected (ie, submitting orders)

I may be able to post from my phone on the rare occasion, though most of the time when I try, I have to relog into the Forum, and when I do I lose the entire post/PM


GMS want things done in a timely manner, fine, then respond to queries in a timely manner...it's a two way street

yes Coventry was given an extension, I was also without reliable access to a computer for a week to week and a half in Dec, then there was the xmas/new years, a couple of interstate/highway closing snowstorms here in Minnesota (requiring me to take a couple of extra shifts)

and while it is, or should be, well known that I do most of the RP, it should be equally known that I also ask for advice from my co-Player, or players in some cases, before I move to the next step when something affects the entire faction..and sometimes their real life prevents me from getting responses quickly