OOC Thread #2

[DisGruntled]

One problem cannon, the Adders controlled the aerospace around Coventry.  The majority of the forces were on the ground and for some reason we only fought 3 rounds there last cycle.  There should have been no allied forces on the ground, but we were willing to be reasonable and not push the issue after lucky crits in space (GMs ignored/ missed a PM with orders here )  Maybe I need to start whining more and being less flexible.  The DC would have had to break the Adder interdiction to interfere with the Adder landings.   The DC's attempt to break interdiction should have no impact on the ground fighting as we've had separate fights before.

Gm saying the issue is lack of communication when the holdup since mid november has been lack of gm response to the Allied side is amusing.  THe holdup on this side isn't us for a change.  Which makes the surprise butt sex even more fun.  With the rules in place, without a counter blockade, the CSA blckading force is the only thing that would have to die.  If there was a counter blockade, the sides might have been close as the Adders didn't include the Warship forces that could or could not be in the area. GM's ignoring rules is annoying.

Inconsistent rulings and enforcement of rules is what's near killed this game in the past.

Why have reinforcement rolls in round one and then roll initiative again?

I know I'm rambling and there's not necessarily logic behind the above, but what it comes to in the end is I don't like being "punished" for lack of communication between GMs and other players.  With the forces they threw this way, Coventry will not be in Adder hands is a near fact and that the Adder forces in the blockade won't be around in C45.  I don't like how we didn't get a chance to make our own decisions and were made to through everything away because of lack of communication on the part of non-Adder players and the GMs.  The breaking of game rules and inconsistent rulings is just icing on the cake. 

[chaosxtreme]

Um.Lets see Did you make the decision to wait a few rounds of combat for the Ice Hellion trial?

Yes. that was you.

Wait but why? so you could use the Ice Hellion Naval Intel IC they gained in round 1.

Thats why the Hellion Trial is on page 1 and 2 of your Coventry thread last turn!

Infact until it was edited the thread included the Ice Hellion names in it.

Thats why you only had 3 rounds of invasion combat last turn.

Wait...lets see 1 Round for the Naval Raid, 1 Round for the first round of the trial and gasp another round for the 2nd round of the Hellion trial.

It. All. Makes. Sense.

You will notice the above is not in red or caps.

[Daemonknight]

On the subject of a lack of GM responses during the past few weeks, let me shed a little bit of light I gleaned while I was with 2 of our 3 GMs last weekend.

First, Dave has alot on his table. Lets be honest, trying to keep this game running is about 20x harder than running a single faction, and some of us have trouble just doing that.

Second, Dave specificlly said, about a week before December- "i'm not going to be here for the majority of December". So, anyone whose waiting for a response from an absentee GM, thats your own fault for not reading threads and paying attention.

Third, reading the rules thread could likly have resolved the question about Initiaitve rolls, as Dave pointed out to me in person when I was up there, and again when I read his OOC response. So all that waiting was for nothing.

Fourth, directed solely at GraeGor: YOU are the faction head, if I am not mistaken. That means that YOU are solely responsible for your factions actions, including ensuring that it's activites in-game are resolved by GM appointed deadlines. Stating that your reasons for things not being done, is thanks to the inability of holding a discussion with your other players, is meaningless. They might be your best friends, and I'm sure you have a good relationship with them, but their input is not nessicary or required for the Star Adders to operate. If you refuse to take actions without discussing it with them, then you have to shoulder the repercussions. Its not the GM's fault if you can't get ahold of Dis, but it is YOUR fault if not getting ahold of Dis keeps you from doing something with your Faction.

Fifth, Dave discussed something concerning interal GM matters which I wont divulge, but suffice it to say, that the issue with PMs going unanswered should be resolved from now on. If not, I'm sure the issue will be taken care of one way or another. Parting comment on that- be glad we still have a game to complain about.

Sixth, on the Arc Royal bit- there were no ongoing conflicts that I remember at the time of the Arc Royal missive to negotiate a cease fire. I know for sure that the Falcons weren't attacking AR worlds, and I believe that the RP started after the Hellions had finished their combat. Either way, there was no ongoing conflict at the time of those discussions, so mentioning them here proves exactly nothing, as it was a different situation.


As a personal side note, I don't see what game rules were broken here- there was no movement on the thread for weeks, the GMs were very nice in giving you a 48 hour window well after the 'end' of the turn, in which you COULD have made your own decisions. Nobody did. There really wasnt any GM involvement required, as the question, like i've said, could've been resolved by reading the rules. Don't blame the GMs for something that is wholly NOT their fault.

[Deathrider6]

I know I'm rambling and there's not necessarily logic behind the above, but what it comes to in the end is I don't like being "punished" for lack of communication between GMs and other players.  With the forces they threw this way, Coventry will not be in Adder hands is a near fact and that the Adder forces in the blockade won't be around in C45.  I don't like how we didn't get a chance to make our own decisions and were made to through everything away because of lack of communication on the part of non-Adder players and the GMs.  The breaking of game rules and inconsistent rulings is just icing on the cake.  

  You might want to take a look at the threads again Dis. Not only did we review but we dealt with the blockade issue . There is a reason I had the thread(s) reviewed. After further review thread (s) were added/corrected.


http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=2038.0

http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=2344.0


Please ensure warships and casualties are listed publicly thanks.

[Deathrider6]

  As far as the GM comms issue goes it should be resolved. I do recommend follow up on any PM's that require action. This goes for player/player and player/GM .

[GraeGor]

Fourth, directed solely at GraeGor: YOU are the faction head, if I am not mistaken.

and YOU are mistaken

the Adders havent had an actual Faction Head since Klingon

ever since he left its been run as a Co-operative, Im usually listed first mainly due to the fact that I handle most of the RP...the listing could have just as easily been alphabetically or by seniority, in both cases Dis would have been listed first...would that lead to the conclusion that he's the Faction Head?

Dis and I have repeatedly, in public and private, declared such....the commonly added notation in the Faction Roll Call thread of "Send all messages regarding the Adders to all Adder players" is a sign of this Co-Op (yet this too has been frequently been ignored by players and GMs alike over the years)

[Holt]

To me when one of the Co-operative faction heads says that he wont be around, that kinda makes you it as a faction head.

[Daemonknight]

Grae, who emails the faction orders in? Because that in itself is the responsibility of the Faction Head.

And that whole "it's a co-op" is a joke. If the faction is run by committee, then the committee members are BOTH responsible for getting their faction done. So, I'm not wrong, so much as its not that YOU are the FH, but apparently, YOU AND DIS are the FH...so both of you have no excuse for not getting stuff done on time. If Dis can't do it, he needs to step down. If you can't do it, you need to step down. Personally, it seems like neither of you has the RL time to get the faction's affairs in order, considering you had 3 weeks to get stuff done, and only now, afterwards, do you make an appearance to complain that you don't like the outcome. Were you hoping that if you didn't do anything it would just roll over to the next turn without any combat?

And as for Dis' comment in the Multi-Clan Planning thread, that 'its a nice suprise to find out after a turn is supposed to be over', it wouldn't be a suprise if you handled it yourself. There is no possible way you can tell me, that you have zero time for an entire month, to log in and put up a few posts with combat rolls. We've seen more posts by you two since the thread was resolved than we have since Holt asked the GMs for their review of the rules.

[NVA]

You know, I think our personal opinions of the FH status of any faction, in the end, is a matter for the GMs to deal with.  If there is an issue, perhaps a PM to the GMs of your concern, rather than publically berating a player or faction?  Just my opinion, anyway.

[Marlin]

Yes. Please. I am sure the Adder players have now seen that its no good to leave a big decision alone for such a long time.

Now it has happened and it went bad for the Clans.

Next time they will know better.

Can we please talk nice now again?

[DisGruntled]

Since when has 2 days been a long time?  We've been waiting on the Allies since December 3.

I'm mainly annoyed that we never got a chance to make orders for our troops do to decisions / lack of communication by the Allies and the GMs.  We're getting screwed by other players issues and then being accused of being the problem.  Sorry I couldn't spend the time in the 2 day window enforced upon us due to others lack of communication.  I'm not blaming others for this lack of communication I'm just pissed that we get to do stupid shit in violation of our plans due to it.


I'm not going into numbers yet just trying to establish how things should work out in combat at Coventry.  This is not an intent to discuss the political front.

R1 Coventry:
CSA issued orders in the thread way back in November to assault troops on the ground.  Majority of the force were already present on the ground.  This fighting should have been dealt with in C44, but only 3 rounds of combat were fought.

DC attempts to launch ToG which is refused.  I know I sent a pm, pretty sure to the gms as well that 8 FP would play with them while the rest continued.

R1 1517
Blockade engaged by Allied Reinforcements converting them to hostile movement.

R2
Allies arrive and find another blockade.
Adders should be in control of the planet at this point.
Technically no invasion can be launched by troops that used hostile territory movement.  Naval engagements would be another matter.

Allies will destroy CSA blockading force with naval engagement.
CSA non-blockading forces should be able to retreat after instituting contingency plans.  We've never been ones to commit sepppuku tactically at least.

If the rules had been followed properly in C44 ( a full 6 rounds instead of the 3 that occurred), Coventry would be a much easier situation.

[Cannonshop]

Well, that's all a very nice set of intentions, but three GM's with access to your orders who can ALSO read a map, (and a thread) didn't see it that way, Dis.

Considering that one of those GM's WROTE the rules you're trying to exploit...

[DisGruntled]

Cannon how is using the rules as written exploiting them?

Apparently the combat rules were changed in the middle of last cycle.

Note: Each turn only contains six combat rounds. Invasion scenarios that continue past round six spill over into the next turn.

We didn't have 6 rounds.

At the end of three ground Battles during an invasion, the faction with the lower total FP on the ground or loser of three engagements, loses the invasion and must retreat to an adjacent uncontested friendly hex at no cost in MP (or retreat to orbit if the looser on the ground maintained air superiority).

If the winning force meets the requirements, offensive interdiction can be used to harry a retreating enemy force.

Due to this there should have been no allied forces on Coventry at the start of C45.

Ground Support
Type: Battle
Requirement: Non-WarShip Aerospace units.
Effect: Eligible ASF units can contribute their FP in support of ground operations.

Are all ASF involved transported?

I know the DC at least has some 200+ FP warship formations that were in the area and they would be unavailable for ground support.

Patrol
The second hex must be specified in the faction orders and must be adjacent to the first.

These were changed yesterday.  I don't remember this being there but my memories far from perfect and it wouldn't be the first time I've missed something.  Since the majority of the Adder warships were getting repairs / replacements at Alarion and their adjacent they cannot be at Coventry with the rule as it is now.  

[Deathrider6]

Okay folks the arguing needs to stop NOW. If you wish to continue take it to PM please. If you have issues with the rules PM the GM's.
Arguing over this has run it's course.

[Holt]

[Deleted per DR6's request/order]