OOC Thread #2

[Iron Mongoose]

So, let's talk about something happy, for a change...

How about a former Warmonger award winner, serial faction leader, and all around good guy being elected to the most powerful, warmongering, nuke slinging faction of all?  Who's going to get it next?  What sort of mayhem can be created?

Why do you think we elected you? The Veterans of the Kindraa Wars lobby expects kickbacks, by the way.

Oh, don't worry.  You know darn well I'm crocked as a dog's hind leg.

[august]

So the Hellions are deporting Lyran citizens who don't want to live under Clan rule (which I would assume is most of them) to the UIW?  I didn't know that the Hellions had the transport capacity... or that the UIW had the infrastructure to support so many millions of people at the drop of a hat. 

Original question...As I can find it.  To which, the reply has already been made...

1 - No transport capacity required in game mechanics.  So, yes, they have the capacity.
2 - It is unlikely we are talking about 'massive' amounts of people, so not much capacity needed.

No where is it being suggested that mass migrations are occuring.  Primarily, I would say criminals and a few thousands of people otherwise.  Most other people simply won't care whose flag is over the world.  So, in terms of IC capacity, still not much transport capacity required.  Shoot, probably one big jumpship with a few large droppers could do it.  And, IC, it really does make sense.  The Hellions are moving faster than any other clan right now.  Why would they want to spare resources to reeducate and protect these worlds from INTERNAL threats.  They have enough external ones.  Why slow down?

If I can come back to this, the issue isn't a rules one; through a matter of absence the rules don't forbid something like this, so it's legal. For me the issue is whether we keep a basic commitment to realism in our RP. That hasn't always been the case and I've been guilty of as much myself in the past. To have mass deportation taken care of in a single line is something that strains belief; regardless of whether it might be possible given the Hellions' dropship capacity, it's going to be a fairly major undertaking to organize and implement. Even if it costs no RP and needs no MPs, I'd like to see it reflected in roleplay, particularly when something like this is going to be used as justification for there being no problems in their occupation zone.

[tassa_kay]

Realism and powergaming don't go together, August.  You know this better than anyone.

[Fatebringer]

Well, how about the Clanner for SLDF Commanding General.  <Silly Lords Disfunctional Force>

he he he, will have to remember that one +1

[NVA]

August, have you been reading the UIW thread?  The one where the person who brought the first shipment of 'refuges' is playing hunter with the local constable?

So the Hellions are deporting Lyran citizens who don't want to live under Clan rule (which I would assume is most of them) to the UIW?  I didn't know that the Hellions had the transport capacity... or that the UIW had the infrastructure to support so many millions of people at the drop of a hat. 

Original question...As I can find it.  To which, the reply has already been made...

1 - No transport capacity required in game mechanics.  So, yes, they have the capacity.
2 - It is unlikely we are talking about 'massive' amounts of people, so not much capacity needed.

No where is it being suggested that mass migrations are occuring.  Primarily, I would say criminals and a few thousands of people otherwise.  Most other people simply won't care whose flag is over the world.  So, in terms of IC capacity, still not much transport capacity required.  Shoot, probably one big jumpship with a few large droppers could do it.  And, IC, it really does make sense.  The Hellions are moving faster than any other clan right now.  Why would they want to spare resources to reeducate and protect these worlds from INTERNAL threats.  They have enough external ones.  Why slow down?

If I can come back to this, the issue isn't a rules one; through a matter of absence the rules don't forbid something like this, so it's legal. For me the issue is whether we keep a basic commitment to realism in our RP. That hasn't always been the case and I've been guilty of as much myself in the past. To have mass deportation taken care of in a single line is something that strains belief; regardless of whether it might be possible given the Hellions' dropship capacity, it's going to be a fairly major undertaking to organize and implement. Even if it costs no RP and needs no MPs, I'd like to see it reflected in roleplay, particularly when something like this is going to be used as justification for there being no problems in their occupation zone.

[august]

August, have you been reading the UIW thread?  The one where the person who brought the first shipment of 'refuges' is playing hunter with the local constable?

Admittedly I haven't, NVA, but the deportation is already a fait accompli at that point anyway, no?

[NVA]

August, have you been reading the UIW thread?  The one where the person who brought the first shipment of 'refuges' is playing hunter with the local constable?

Admittedly I haven't, NVA, but the deportation is already a fait accompli at that point anyway, no?

So, you are looking for some way to prevent it? 

[august]

Despite the fact that I've more that once said that I'm not, I actually am. How clever of you to catch me on that.

[NVA]

Despite the fact that I've more that once said that I'm not, I actually am. How clever of you to catch me on that.

Sorry, I guess I missed that comment.  My fault.  So, what is the issue then?  I guess I am missing the complaint.

[Cannonshop]

So the Hellions are deporting Lyran citizens who don't want to live under Clan rule (which I would assume is most of them) to the UIW?  I didn't know that the Hellions had the transport capacity... or that the UIW had the infrastructure to support so many millions of people at the drop of a hat.  

Original question...As I can find it.  To which, the reply has already been made...

1 - No transport capacity required in game mechanics.  So, yes, they have the capacity.
2 - It is unlikely we are talking about 'massive' amounts of people, so not much capacity needed.

No where is it being suggested that mass migrations are occuring.  Primarily, I would say criminals and a few thousands of people otherwise.  Most other people simply won't care whose flag is over the world.  So, in terms of IC capacity, still not much transport capacity required.  Shoot, probably one big jumpship with a few large droppers could do it.  And, IC, it really does make sense.  The Hellions are moving faster than any other clan right now.  Why would they want to spare resources to reeducate and protect these worlds from INTERNAL threats.  They have enough external ones.  Why slow down?

If I can come back to this, the issue isn't a rules one; through a matter of absence the rules don't forbid something like this, so it's legal. For me the issue is whether we keep a basic commitment to realism in our RP. That hasn't always been the case and I've been guilty of as much myself in the past. To have mass deportation taken care of in a single line is something that strains belief; regardless of whether it might be possible given the Hellions' dropship capacity, it's going to be a fairly major undertaking to organize and implement. Even if it costs no RP and needs no MPs, I'd like to see it reflected in roleplay, particularly when something like this is going to be used as justification for there being no problems in their occupation zone.

It's not a "Mass" deportation- figure trickles of a few hundered here, a few hundered there-basically "Space Available", at least, that's how I intended it, and how Marlin et. al. has been playing it.  I posted ONE TIME a counter-argument using maxed-out numbers based on transport capabilities that exist-as an example, in OOC in this thread, of how even millions were impossible.  (you really can't GET millions on a single canon ship, and it's a hard throw to get them using even the Snow Raven fleet!)

but I also noted that the max "Likely" would be somewhere under five thousand-if you use the biggest passenger rides available and something like a Monolith for the jump...which the arrangement doesn't really make for anyway, and would have to come from the other end of the pipeline-i.e. it out and out would have to come from the Clan side of things, and in that, you're right-nobody would (IC or OOC) put that many resources into it.

Infrastructure-wise, a few hundered at a time are easy enough to handle even for a pissant faction like mine, even a few (less than five) THOUSAND could be handled at a time.

The most likely quantities are in the hundereds, and that's  per turn, not per post, and not every turn.  There is no "mass Migration" to see.

Now...as for "bad roleplay" I really don't know what, specifically, you're referring to, and as you've not read the thread, I'm not sure you're not hanging on that allegation out of misplaced personal loyalties-Tassa brings up the allegation repeatedly in his answers to me, but can't or won't produce evidence of same.

It's not mudslinging when you call out your accuser, August, and I really DO think the Achilles comparison fits his behaviour to a certain extent-and if you want to talk about power-gaming, consider that our imminent leader of the Blood Spirits has chosen to storm out of the main theater of operations to go after an NPC that has zero relevance in the quest for easy, cheap resource whoring instead of fighting on the front-line with the other Clans against the Not-Named.

A set of actions that is VERY out of character, and reflects some rather poor Roleplaying from MY perspective-and is only something I even give two shits about because he's lobbing accusations and insults from, oh...his first point onward, while ignoring both polite and...less polite, replies in his quest for a fight he thinks he can WIN.

[tassa_kay]

Now...as for "bad roleplay" I really don't know what, specifically, you're referring to, and as you've not read the thread, I'm not sure you're not hanging on that allegation out of misplaced personal loyalties-Tassa brings up the allegation repeatedly in his answers to me, but can't or won't produce evidence of same.

Wow, what a shockingly rude thing to say.  First you accuse August of "personal loyalties" as the basis for his objection, despite his very clear explanation as to why he raised the objection in the first place.  THEN you continue to hang onto the nonexistent idea that I was even talking to YOU about bad roleplaying in the first damned place.  Do you even read what I write, or is it easier to play the psuedo-intellectual by bypassing everything that doesn't work for you and attacking shadows?  I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE HELLIONS, DUDE.  Jesus effing Christ.

It's not mudslinging when you call out your accuser, August, and I really DO think the Achilles comparison fits his behaviour to a certain extent-and if you want to talk about power-gaming, consider that our imminent leader of the Blood Spirits has chosen to storm out of the main theater of operations to go after an NPC that has zero relevance in the quest for easy, cheap resource whoring instead of fighting on the front-line with the other Clans against the Not-Named.

How the hell am I "resource whoring" when Nueva Castile consists ENTIRELY OF MEMBER WORLDS?  Are you kidding me with this nonsense?

As to why I'm even doing it at all, try actually reading my roleplaying regarding it, because unlike some people, I actually lay considerable groundwork for everything I do, so that no one can come in later and accuse me of exactly what you're attempting to accuse me of.  Unlike the lot of powergamers out there, I actually know how to RP my faction correctly, and I know how to handle them when it comes to doing something new and different.

And yes, Cannonshop, it IS mudslinging when your only defense is to take the accuser and try to nitpick at HIM instead of, I don't know, answering the accuser's concerns.  Not that I was even talking to you in the first place.  Sorry, but that's grade-school mentality, and when I became an adult, I learned pretty quickly that you don't answer objections by attacking the accuser and playing the "well, look at what YOU'RE doing" card (not that you even got THAT right, since I was able to defend everything I've done in the span of three sentences).

So, that was epic fail on your part.  Nice try, though (actually, it wasn't, but I'm trying to be kind).  

A set of actions that is VERY out of character, and reflects some rather poor Roleplaying from MY perspective-and is only something I even give two shits about because he's lobbing accusations and insults from, oh...his first point onward, while ignoring both polite and...less polite, replies in his quest for a fight he thinks he can WIN.

Out-of-character?  Really?  If it's so out-of-character, explain it to me.  Because I can (and HAVE) listed all sorts of reasons why a Clan wouldn't just deport undesirables to a Spheroid faction.  Can you point to a single thing I've done and prove that it's not justifiable?  Even one thing?

Get over yourself already, Cannonshop.  You were only tangentially a part of my objections in the first place, but I suppose that doesn't matter in the socially-maladjusted game of "I'm more popular than you" validation you're playing.  

Edited for language.

[Fatebringer]

Stop.

[NVA]

I second Fatebringers motion.

[tassa_kay]

I have just as much right to answer insults and accusations as anyone... and no one's forcing any of you to read it.  Skip over it if you don't like it, or let the actual forum administrator(s) handle it.  Either way, I'm not stopping anything until he does.

[august]

Cannonshop, politely, back off. If I haven't named the UIW in any of my posts thus far, it's not a coincidence. My issue with the bad roleplay is this: it's handled with a single line in a combat thread, and isn't at all unprecedented. Where you choose to go with that is up to you, and I'd like to see it handled well - even if I disagree with the idea that there should be so few refugees, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion. If some good pieces come out of it, pieces which I think you're certainly capable of writing, then I'll be all for it.

If I were to post something like "And the Arc-Royal Loki shot all the dissidents on their worlds and everyone was happy," it would be really shitty RP. Transparently helps my faction, zero effort, and allows me to argue that there are no dissidents on my planet down the line. This is completely unbelievable: an action that heads off my actions having consequences, including itself. This is pretty much how I see the deportation as it's now established.

As for Achilles and Spirits and stuff, it's true. My "misplaced personal loyalties" which your rhetorical negation so kindly allows me to escape are nonetheless present. I do whatever Tassa tells me and have no investment beyond that, really. Which is why it's totally on the mark for you to write a response that confuses us, attributes to me things that he said and vice-versa. To whom should I be loyal, if my present friendships are misplaced? Please do help me with this, preferably through more ad hominem attacks. I would hate it if any points were to be actually addressed.