Turn 43 orders/posting deadlines

[Fatebringer]

I'm workin the Ravens / Suns, but will be a few hours after midnight here, just imagine I'm in Hawaii! XD

[Marlin]

Given my return to the game, its looking like I may not be able to get orders done in time, even if I knew what orders to make.  If its not too much trouble, I'd like an extention.

We got rid of the over-the-top penalties for late orders, so if you have to submit late the only two things you need to remember are:

• Posting deadline is still in effect, so make sure you get your threads open by the 14th
• Factions that miss the orders deadline will not get their intel and R&D reports until the 15th of the month

First: its good that there are no bad penalties anymore, however, I can see abuse potential: If a thread goes up, before a faction has its orders in, the player could change orders appropriately. Say, if The Dark hit the Hanseatic League on one Planet, and the Player does not have sent the orders, he just switches all his units to meet the aggressor, killing him.

IS there any mechanic against this?

[Parmenion]

Magistracy orders were sent about eight hours ago.   Horses have now been sent (although please see comments about them on the email).  Thanks.

[Daemonknight]

Well, you could always just wait untill the day after the deadline and then post orders. Then they wont even get their turn report untill after the posting deadline, and would be going in blind. But perhaps if you post after the deadline, you automaticlly lose initiaitve at friendly worlds, representing your forces not getting their orders untill its too late to arrive before the attacker.

Given my return to the game, its looking like I may not be able to get orders done in time, even if I knew what orders to make.  If its not too much trouble, I'd like an extention.

We got rid of the over-the-top penalties for late orders, so if you have to submit late the only two things you need to remember are:

• Posting deadline is still in effect, so make sure you get your threads open by the 14th
• Factions that miss the orders deadline will not get their intel and R&D reports until the 15th of the month

First: its good that there are no bad penalties anymore, however, I can see abuse potential: If a thread goes up, before a faction has its orders in, the player could change orders appropriately. Say, if The Dark hit the Hanseatic League on one Planet, and the Player does not have sent the orders, he just switches all his units to meet the aggressor, killing him.

IS there any mechanic against this?

[Marlin]

I must say I dont quite get that. For offensives planned, I agree, you would want to send your orders in time.

But if you are not in the mood for it and expect some heavy stuff against you, what is preventing you, in the extreme, to wait till the deadline of the 14th, check out the threads, see that you are receiving a fat invasion at somewhere, then hurry to do your orders and send all you have (which is more than is coming) to that direction. You might come late (dont think we have even that in the rules) but you will smash what is there.

[Daemonknight]

I think the GMs would be able to see through such a manuvere as blatant metagaming. Attack threads become common knowledge only after the turn ends, so if someone's orders wait untill after threads are posted, and THEN they happen to reinforce their defense battles with overwhelming force... I think Dave/Dave/Josh are smart enough to see through it.

[chaosxtreme]

Seee through certainly but above all they are fair.

And there is a difference between making use of a loophole in the rules and cheating.

As cheesy as it is as the rules are written this is allowed. So as much as they would not want to I think it would pass once. Then they would probably look at modifying the rules in the future.

[Marlin]

 

I see it that way too, Chaos.. but perhaps I am just paranoid? 

[Daemonknight]

Its not exploiting a loophole...its cheating. If you base your IC actions on OOC information(such as a thread post that is not IC knowledge) that is most definetly a case of metagaming- another word for cheating.

Example: Say that the Terrans take a stab at Sudeten. As I have already sent my orders in, theres nothing I can do. But perhaps the Camels' orders arnt in yet, and they want to make nice to the Falcons, so they see this big force hit Sudeten. They decide to send a Galaxy and some navy there to bolster the defenses.

This would be metagaming: you are taking advantage of ooc information(because at that time, nobody outside of Sudeten would know of the attack), and using it IC.

[chaosxtreme]

Yeah and whats using .5 FP to deal with a multiship Defensive Interdiction?

Its allowable in the rules. Certainly!

People do it all the time. Their response is usually to the effect of "I will continue to do this until rules change".

Is it cheezy? Sure. Is it fair to let them get away with it? Yes as well.

Its the rules and the rules have to read the same for everyone. Is there room for interpretation? certainly.

But one of the things that makes this game work is that Dave, other Dave and Josh are above all fair. They  don't go by "spirit" they go by letter of the law. Then they fix the letter of the law.

Do they make rulings? Certainly but its based on the rules not "truthiness" or friendship with the GM's. Hell man that's what we like most about them.

This is a loophole, they are aware of the loophole it's on their minds and I have no doubt they are trying to think of a way to plug it while still plugging the playability for busy people hole this rule fix's.

Are they hoping they won't have to? Certainly. Are they prepared to deal with it if they have to? certainly.


Me Im posting my Combat Threads this weekend. Not because Im crazy brave but because the sooner I get them up, the sooner I can get some combat scheduled for them. Will it screw me if someone takes advantage of the loophole? Sure. Just means I got to "WIN" that MM or MA game. :-)

Downside of waiting until the 14th to post is you lost half the month before you could try and get a game played rather then MM or MA'ed, and thats way too much.

[Daemonknight]

not the same thing. thats a rules loophole.

this is using OOC info to play your IC char. thats not a rules loophole...thats cheating.

[Dave Baughman]

Just to opine briefly on the issue of potential abuse of the new late orders policy: this is kind of an experiment the GM team is doing on whether we can still make everything work smoothly without the really heavy-handed penalty that used to exist in the rules. If people try to take advantage of the more lenient rules, they'll just spoil things for everyone

[LittleH13]

Chaos, Deamon. I think you are arguing about the same thing in a way, we know that this could be abused as a metagaming/loophole but we feel that all the players are trustworthy enough that this will not be the case. Most orders are sent in on time or close (within a few hours) to the time. With Dave rolling the Intel/R&D and sending out the reports before he opens the threads he gets an idea of who is doing what. Plus we have access to all of the planning threads and PMs so we would know if someone was going way OOC by suddenly sending their whole touman to one world.

-Josh

PS- Thank you both for the kind words about how we the GMs are running things. It is appreciated.   

[Dave Baughman]

OK, all reports for on-time orders have been sent. Combat boards are open, get the shooting started

Late orders will receive their reports on or about October 15th, but may open their threads as soon as they submit their orders (i.e. you don't have to wait for your reports).

[LittleH13]

Just a reminder to all, we have a thread posting guideline that is in place so that it is easy for everyone to look at a thread and know what is going on. This guideline also helps the GM staff when cleaning threads up at the end of a turn. Please keep this in mind and follow the example posted here:
http://intelser.org/forums/index.php?topic=147.msg1044#msg1044


Thanks
-The GM staff