Rules Discussion

[Jeyar]

Sting once or twice...

However I too have to say the: "heads up" then debate then initiate rule at a set future date system is better than most systems. I'd like the debate portion being a bit more... vigorous before things get put into place, but if I have to weigh this system vs. many of the older ones, this is way better.   

I'm saying this in spite of the system going into place likely is already biting me on the backside. 

[Daemonknight]

I think the only way to make the discussion more 'vigorous' would be to extend the time before a new rule is implemented from one turn to 2...however, i don't think that's needed, as the current method allows an entire month for discussion, and Dave does an excellent job in my eyes of incorporating ideas and suggestions into the spirit of the rule he's crafted.

To be honest, i think the system we have is superior to even some of the big tabletop war games companies. Anyone here ever get into Warhammer or WH 40K? There are the core rulebooks, which sets down the rules for actually playing the game(movement, shooting, turn order, ect...). Then, there's a Codex for each individual army(and in the case of the popular Space Marines faction, there are multiple Codexes that supplement the main SM Codex that detail specific chapters).

Ok, so the game has a revolving update system. Each and every Codex gets updated periodically, the company goes down the list updating the codexes with tweaks, changes, new equipment and unit options and everything. Most armies get a new codex every 2 years, some more often or less depending on the popularity of the individual army. In addition to that, the core rulebook gets totally revamped one every 3-5 years. So basically every few years, you find yourself in possession of a few hundred to a few thousand dollars worth of models that either don't perform the way they did when you bought them, or in some cases, don't technically exist anymore...occasionally, whole armies are dropped!

Obviously we don't have that problem with a forum based game, but I'm illustrating the difference between a constant minor tweaking of rules by general discussion compared to a total makeover during a stoppage of play.

[GI Journalist]

There's nothing wrong with a living rules system, provided all of the changes are transparent. Bringing the game to a halt isn't even necessary. I just don't like the idea that there may be rules changes in the works that aren't general knowledge. If that knowledge is being kept close hold by the GMs, that's fine. If it's public knowledge being discussed on a forum, then that's fine too. Anything in between is a grey area and can cause problems.

Pre-emptive knowledge about rules changes was a concern that was voiced to me, and I thought it worth discussing. I know how important the integrity of this game is to the organizers and wanted to raise their awareness about something that could cause the appearance of impropriety where I'm certain none is intended.

[Iron Mongoose]

Well, even if the GMs cook up a rule in privet and try and spring it on us, then there's still a month to kick it around and weigh in on it, so there's no sense that we'll be facing down some sort of consperacy of rules changes.  For my part, I think its just a case of Dave wanting to make sure he's offered us a finished product to look at rather than just a half assed idea, so that we can coment on a well reasoned rules proposal rather than just whatever.

[Dave Baughman]

The reasons for why we don't just put the game on hold for six months and totally rewrite the system into something a lot more like Flashpoint are pretty complex... not the least of which being that when myself, Josh, and others started planning out contingencies for keeping FGC going if it was no longer going to be able to be hosted on CBT.com, we felt that the players had a low level of confidence in the GM staff and would not tolerate long delays, mid-turn eratta, or a lack of transparency regarding what rules are coming down the pipe.

Having said that, I dig what Joe is saying - take the nuclear weapons rules for example. Everyone knew they were coming "some time in the future" and most of you saw the early draft that was posted on CBT.com ~9 months ago, but we deliberately kept the details of the finals rules kind of under tight wraps until we were ready to commit to implementation - otherwise, those with fore-knowledge would have had to deal with the temptation of planning based on the future rule rather than the current rules.

Keeping the rules transparent is definitely one of the goals of the GM team, and while we can't always do so perfectly (sometimes we need to consult with "subject matter experts" on early drafts, for example, to get feedback well before we are ready to announce a rule is coming - or something we accidentally let the cat out of the bag discussing a related issue... I'm sure some of you have learned that chemical weapons rules are being worked on this way), we are definitely congnizant of the lack of confidence the old GM staff policies created and are trying to avoid a return to the old days of mid-turn erratas, "convenient" special scenarios, and so forth.

But I'm starting to ramble now... the short version is: the GM team is aware that rules leaks can cause issues at the player level, and we are going to try to ensure that rules discussion threads are the first place that rules drafts appear so everyone has the same level of notification.

[GreyJaeger]

I was thinking about the Recharge Station, and what to do to make them more desirable, and I think I have an idea.

Recharge Station
Cost:72 RP
Turns to Construct:2
RP Gain: 1.5
Special: 15 MP
A Recharge Station that is part of a Command Circuit can extend the length of the CC to 24 hexes/ decreases the cost by 1/3/ Increase Capacity to 15 IS/20 Clan.

I was just thinking that RS to have a benefit on Command Circuits will make them worth building even with the high cost. Also beefing up the RP and MP gains may do it alone, but I don't know.

[Marlin]

Question as Interdictions get more widespread: Ground forces with support of Clan Navy (I assume all WS have HPGs) are still to roll 6+ to get out of a hex or not? Only those with WS in the same hex. Those without are stuck of course.

Could one please clarify for all?

EDIT: I am only allowed to build 1 HPG per turn. (taking double time as secondary provider) Now, can I start building another HPG in turn 2 when I paid for the 1st in turn 1 fully?

This might have repercussions for others as well. More and more questions come up with that. Urgs.

[Dave Baughman]

Question as Interdictions get more widespread: Ground forces with support of Clan Navy (I assume all WS have HPGs) are still to roll 6+ to get out of a hex or not? Only those with WS in the same hex. Those without are stuck of course.

Could one please clarify for all?

EDIT: I am only allowed to build 1 HPG per turn. (taking double time as secondary provider) Now, can I start building another HPG in turn 2 when I paid for the 1st in turn 1 fully?

This might have repercussions for others as well. More and more questions come up with that. Urgs.

HPG rules in general are under review right now, but the draft is not yet at a stage of completion where it can really be published for comment.

WarShips with mobile HPGs (TH, Clan, FWL for example), and transported units accompanying them, can ignore the interdicted system "bog down" check. All other units need to beat the 6+

It is legal to pay to start a second HPG before the first is done, as long as no more than one (or whatever your faction's limit if it is higher) is completed per turn.

[Marlin]

Thanks.

[Marlin]

I have another qwestion.

When conducting a raid (recon) at a hex, what happens to Init? I know Ridderkerk had a failed recon, followed by an invasion. The question is, that if the Init is done by the recon force, will the followup force always lose init?

[Fatebringer]

Recon comes before invasion even  if they may show up at the same time as the attack group.

If the recon was sucessful, the attack group can show up and know what they're facing.

If the recon fails, the attack group shows up and sees if there are enemies out, that's all.

If the enemies are out there, they they have the choice to declare a defensive interdiction, let the forces thru, try to run for it.

The Attack group has the option of Leaving, Naval engagement against an intedicting force, Trying to push their forces thru against the Interdiction, or setting up an offensive interdiction to prevent people from running.

The amount of forces need not be specified until the actual declaration of a force engagement. However, it is good form to give a general picture of force size. Usually warships are kinda hard to hide.

[Jeyar]

Do we just put in our orders "buys HPG" when we want to buy... er... a HPG (plus of course say: what level, where it goes and set aside the RP for it), assuming we are buying it from the main "psycho bell"?

[Dave Baughman]

Do we just put in our orders "buys HPG" when we want to buy... er... a HPG (plus of course say: what level, where it goes and set aside the RP for it), assuming we are buying it from the main "psycho bell"?

You need to conclude a trade agreement with the seller, just like any other international trade. If you are planning to buy the HPGs from the TH, shoot Josh and I a PM and we will work out a deal.

[Dave Baughman]

FYI

Naval Salvage incentive for MegaMek, Nuclear Weapons, and Resource Raid revisions have been merged into the main rules thread. Simple Resolution "tax," Nuclear Weapons RP hook generation, and the additional Raid revisions that were requested have not been put in yet as I don't believe they are adequately finalized.

I will be opening a Turn 41 rules discussion thread soon.

Voting on the Aero FP poll is closed and will be discussed at greater length in the 41 rules updates thread.

[Marlin]

I would like to note that in turn 37, a nuke was used on Aerospace elements over Atreus. The result was that the planet was terrorized.

Will that be the case for Roche too or was that just a test run? (And 3 nukes are gonna do much terror, I guess. At least on the ground)

What is with use in Space, say in a space battle? How does that affect a hex or planet?