Rules Discussion

[Dave Baughman]

Even the 2 MF's I created ON Blair Athol?

Even if they are on Blair Athol in the roleplaying fluff, they occupy the entirety of that hex. A raid against Blair Atholl can damage the shipyards on Sudeten and a raid on Sudeten can damage the MFs at Blair Athol.

I didn't say it was logical, but that's the way the rules were written - a lot of things don't zoom in deeper than the hex level.

[Daemonknight]

Does that also mean that my Falcons on Sudeten can aid in the defense of Blair Atholl, and likewise the Ravens on Sudeten?

[Dave Baughman]

Does that also mean that my Falcons on Sudeten can aid in the defense of Blair Atholl, and likewise the Ravens on Sudeten?

In naval combat, yes. Not in ground combat, which does zoom in to the individual planet level.

That's why the big Clans vs. TH battle there was so gonzo huge. All three systems' naval defenders pooled together to oppose the landings.

[Daemonknight]

Well that sucks. Are there any plans to change that to the more logical way of having the infrastructure be zoomed into the planet level?

[Dave Baughman]

Well that sucks. Are there any plans to change that to the more logical way of having the infrastructure be zoomed into the planet level?

Yes, but those changes are dependant on other changes I need to implement first so it won't be an instantaneous change.

[Fatebringer]

Shipyards need to be in space because they build the Drives. The Drives can not be build on the ground or you get a big mess when you try to leave...

[Daemonknight]

You know what i meant. That may not be on the surface, but they are most likly in geo-synch, and probaly on Orbital Elevators to make materials from the surface easier to transfer than boosting them with dropships unless they have to. So they'd still be zoomed into a planetary level: a ground attack on a shipyard would be attacking the orbital elevator, or the warehouses or factories surrounding it. Not every single last peice of the ships needs to be built in zero-G, and alot of it would be harder. A Shipyard represents as much stuff actually on the planet's surface as actually in orbit.

[Iron Mongoose]

As to shipyards, one of the few canon yards we have good info on, Kathil, is very tightly tied to ground based infrastucture.  Others build dropships on the ground, and have no space based components, yet are still classed as SY for our porposes.   Conversly another, in the Titan Yards in the Sol system, is so independant that Terran and Mars can fall and yet Titan can hold out.  Some SY are in empty systems, or systems like Star's End which are largely asteroid fields. 

[Fatebringer]

Quatre Bell is known to be tied into one of the moons per it's description, relying on the nearby asteroid belt for resources

[Marlin]

Follow-up question: The 100 word rule to gain additional bonus, is it just for buyers of HPGs or does it count for all factions, regardless of ability? Could we change the wording then?

I mean, a Clan like the CIH would simply build the stuff, ship it, and install it. Telling the people: Here, use it.
And end.

Of course, RP should be encouraged, but I just want a clarification. After the first couple of HPGs, we shall see if the bonus is worth the trouble.

Little bump?

[Dave Baughman]

Follow-up question: The 100 word rule to gain additional bonus, is it just for buyers of HPGs or does it count for all factions, regardless of ability? Could we change the wording then?

I mean, a Clan like the CIH would simply build the stuff, ship it, and install it. Telling the people: Here, use it.
And end.

Of course, RP should be encouraged, but I just want a clarification. After the first couple of HPGs, we shall see if the bonus is worth the trouble.

Little bump?

The 100-word bonus is for the original manufacturer of the equipment, and only when it is sold (i.e. actual ownership is transfered - having someone pay you to build an HPG you will retain ownership of doesn't count). This is a one-time benefit; reselling the same HPG does not generate infinite revenue.

The idea of the rule is to allow people to try to undercut ComStar/WOB and at least break even if they are willing to do the RP, since CS/WOB licenses HPG equipment "at cost," while at the same time being structured in such a way that CS/WOB cannot benefit from the rule.



In other words:

Scenario A: ComStar is hired by the Taurians to rebuild one of the HPGs the Dark destroyed. CS charges full price for the HPG, but retains ownership of the equipment (in fact, they claim that the ground the HPG is build upon becomes TH territory). Even if CS writes 100 wods of RP, they do not benefit from the 0.25 RP profit.

Scenario B: FRR challenges Clan Wolf to a trial of posession for an HPG to replace on that ComStar blew up during "Fall Röd." FRR wins the trial and Clan Wolf delivers the HPG to FRR territory, where it is administed by Clan Ghost Bear. Even if CW writes 100 words of RP, they do not gain 0.25 RP because the HPG was not sold to the FRR.

Scenario C: Clan Star Adder sells a new HPG to the Charlies for 3 RP (cost of production), which they will administer. The Charlies own the HPG station, even though the skilled technical experts and support staff are supplied by Clan Star Adder. If CSA writes 100 words of RP, the do receive 0.25 RP of profit because the HPG was sold. Even if a different faction were to admnister the station, CSA (and CSA only, regardless of who else contributed roleplaying or funds) would get the 0.25 RP.

Scenario D: FRR purchases an HPG from Clan Ghost Bear at cost. The Ghost Bears write 100 words of roleplay. After the HPG is handed off to the FRR authorities, but before it can be installed, FRR sells the HPG to Clan Wolf-in-Exile (and writes 100 words of roleplay). Only Clan Ghost Bear gets 0.25 RP of profit, because they are the original equipment manufacturer, and they only get it once because only the first sale is eligible for the incentive.

[Marlin]

And this .25 RP is only once applicable unlike the bonus of an IC?

Thanks for the explanation. So, destroying HPGs is really impacting the economy then..


On another note: I need to clarify if there is still a trade bonus available. I hear people talking about a .5 RP bonus for a trade but cannot find the rule anymore. If it exists, I would want to profit from that as well of course, but I would need a basis for that.

(Did you receive my PM and/or the Mail? Would you send me the Orders sheet back if the formulas work for you? They dont work for me yet, so if I get it from you and they work, they should continue to do so, right? )

[Dave Baughman]

And this .25 RP is only once applicable unlike the bonus of an IC?

Thanks for the explanation. So, destroying HPGs is really impacting the economy then..


On another note: I need to clarify if there is still a trade bonus available. I hear people talking about a .5 RP bonus for a trade but cannot find the rule anymore. If it exists, I would want to profit from that as well of course, but I would need a basis for that.

(Did you receive my PM and/or the Mail? Would you send me the Orders sheet back if the formulas work for you? They dont work for me yet, so if I get it from you and they work, they should continue to do so, right? )

All of the trade bonuses have long since expired, both the 10% and the 50% versions - at least as far as I know.

I'm sure I did receive your PM and email, I am working on them right now but I have about 60-70 PMs and a large number of emails back up so it might be a couple hours.

[Marlin]

I got your answers, thanks.

[Dave Baughman]

Just a thought. Tell me what you think.

Key ideas:

• Remove the interdiction movement rule that everyone hates
• Make interdiction penalties the same across the board
• Remove as much math as possible from the interdiction rules
• Make blowing up ICs have the possibility of causing a chain reaction that blows up in the attacker's face
• Make Commtech research easier to do but not "too easy."

Needless to say, if we do this we'll need to come up with some sort of special one-time compensation for factions who sunk huge amounts of cash into the old commtech R&D system.

• Interdiction doesn't prevent movement
• Interdiction doesn't prevent written government-level communication (i.e. couriers can still deliver messages)
• Interdiction causes a sliding loss of revenue that starts -higher- than the revene production of the interdicted hexes and gradually settles out to about 50% loss (it costs $$$ to set up a "pony express" network and so forth). Lets say, 125% loss on turn one, then 110 -> 100 -> 75 -> 50, so after six turns of interdiction things have "bottomed out"
• Hexes that are impacted by "partial comm blockage" - i.e. two or more of their six adjacent hexes cannot be communicated with - are treated as interdicted, but only at the 50% level. Note that this simplification of the PCB definition means that many periphery hexes will be under permanent partial comms blockage, but also that internal hexes will rarely be affected by this.
• Systems that are more than four hexes from the nearest friendly IC are also treated as interdicted at the 50% level
• IC disruption (just like the old rules) causes full 125% interdiction, but the turn after it hits 50% it goes away (i.e. the disruption will always last six turns now unless the IC is repaired or replaced).

To facilitate these penalties, we would add six seven columns to the territory tab:

Not Interdicted
Interdicted 125%
Interdicted 110%
Interdicted 100%
Interdicted 75%
Interdicted 50%
Terrorized 0%

Ideally these would have radio buttons that the player could click on, and a formula would automatically adjust the ownership income of that hex. We would need to add a box to the expenses or misc screen for "Communications Expenses" or "Interdiction Losses" or something like that, so we can quickly reference the amount lost for adding to the pirates revenue the following turn.

We could do the same for Terror, as shown above, to build it right in.



Comm Provider Classes

For HPG:

Basic Client

Basic Clients have no intrinsic HPG communications ability; instead, they must rely on an Advanced Provider to coordinate their communications.

Prerequisite: NONE
Upkeep: NONE

• Cannot run HPGs of any type
• Cannot run ICs
• Cannot build or repair HPGs
• Cannot build or repair IC
• Cannot build or repair Network Hubs
• Cannot build or repair portable HPGs
• Any ICs the faction becomes owner of go offline

Advanced Client

Advanced Clients must still rely on a foreign power to provide their HPG hardware, but have developed the practical technical skills to operate the technology. HPG technology remains largely a "black box," but this faction is capable of some independent operations. Critically, an advanced client can operate portable military HPGs - an important strategic advantage.

Prerequisite: One of the following-

• Three successful communications technology R&D projects (target 10+, 15 RP per attempt)
• Six turns of training by an ally, at a cost of 30 RP per turn to both the training faction and the trainer
• Random R&D breakthrough

Upkeep: Every six turns, the advanced client either requires an addition "training turn" as described above or another successful R&D attempt (target and cost as described above). If this requirement is not satisfied, the faction returns to Basic Client status.

• Can run local HPGs (only - not HPGs in other factions)
• Can operate portable HPGs assigned to their military
• Cannot build new HPGs but can repair damaged ones
• Can build or repair ICs (to satisfy the prerequisites to become a Basic Provider)
• Cannot run ICs (still needs at least a Basic Provider to form a network)
• Cannot build or repair Network Hubs
• Cannot build or repair portable HPGs
• Any ICs or Network Hubs the faction becomes owner of go offline

Basic Provider (this is the old Tertiary and Secondary combined into one)

A basic provider has sufficient trained technical staff and infrastructure to operate all FTL communications within the faction's own borders, as well as to extend IC networks into neighboring territory.

Prerequisite: All of the following must be fulfilled:

• At least two IC hex improvements must be built (to form a functioning HPG network circuit)
• Four successful commtech R&D rolls must be made (target 10+) at a cost of 50 RP each
• Must posess a "pristine" example of a Class B or better HPG (capture military HPGs, Class C HPGs, and/or damaged or destroyed HPGs do not satisfy this requirement) to reverse-engineer.
• Must permanently sacrifice one PF and one MF to begin the faction's HPG manufacturing industry.

Having a friendly "foreign advisor" from a Basic or Advanced Provider faction to act as a trainer reduces the R&D cost from 50 to 20 (each - total of 40) per attempt.

Upkeep: If the faction loses all of its ICs, a new one must be built within six turns. Otherwise, the faction backslides to Advanced Client status.

• Can run HPGs only in their own territory
• Can network HPGs with ICs, including outside their territory, but may only operate a single network (i.e. cannot form multiple unconnected networks)
• Can build and repair HPGs
• Can build and repair ICs
• can build or repair Network Hubs, but cannot actually use them unless they become an Advanced Provider; the NH goes offline if its owner is a Basic Provider or less.

Advanced Provider

Advanced Providers are defined by the ability to simultaneously run multiple HPG networks and to staff extremely large numbers of HPG stations, even outside their own territory. The jump from Basic Provider to Advanced Provider has more to do with infrastructure than technology.

Prerequisite: The following requirements must be met

• Build at least one Network Hub
• All of the faction's ICs must be within 30 hexes of a Network Hub

Upkeep: If the faction loses all of its Network Hubs, it immediately regresses to Basic Provider.

• Can run HPGs and ICs in any hex
• Can build or repair HPGs, ICs, and Network Hubs

HPG Equipment

Construction and deployment of normal ground-based HPGs is handled abstractly. If a system becomes interdicted due to destruction or damage to its HPG, that system's provider (or possibly its Advanced Client owner in the case of damage but not destruction) automatically begins the rebuilding process. This costs 1 RP (member world), 3 RP (control world), or 5 RP (capital or any world containing a Zone Map) and takes three turns to build/repair, configure, and calibrate the equipment. The provider need only record the initial expense and then report the map change three turns later.

A provider may opt to not repair or replace an HPG if it has insufficient funds or if the client has somehow invoked their displeasure.

A provider may also voluntarily attempt to destroy their own HPG equipment at any time. This may be attempted once per system per turn and is resolved as a Sabotage Hex Element mission with a +4 bonus.

IC Hex Improvement

IC Hex Improvements represent the massive specialized computer data centers that sort, route, bundle, and compress HPG traffic for retransmission along a network.

If a hex is not within four hexes (i.e. two HPG transmissions) of a friendly IC (not neccessarily one operated by the hex's owner), it is treated as if under partial communications blockage, reflecting the cumulative effects of network congestion and latency.

Providers that do not have Network Hubs must designate one IC as their network's start point. If the destruction or dismantling of an IC prevents other ICs in that faction's network from tracing an uninterrupted line of four-hex or less hops back to the prime IC, those ICs go offline.

An IC may process incoming data from any number of HPG stations, but may only connect to three other ICs at any one time. Normally this reflects one "down stream" connection towards the Prime IC, one "up stream" connection further down the circuit, and an unused third connection that is held in reserve for "patching around" network disruptions on an ad-hoc basis.

When an IC is destroyed, damaged, or goes offline, it causes a network disruption in systems that are connected to it. 2d6 hexes are affected starting with the hex directly "north" of the failed IC and then emanating out in a clockwise spiral. Each impacted hex may avoid disruption on a roll of 10+ on 2d6. Hexes with an IC gain a +5 bonus on the roll, but if they fail the IC goes offline (disrupting another 2d6 hexes).

An IC costs 24 Resource Points and requires at least 2 turns to build. ICs may be build as guest facilities within client factions. An IC generates 0.5 RP per turn of revenue. Additionally, the Provider who is running the RP earns 2.0 RP per turn regardless of whether or not the IC is a guest facility.


Network Hubs

Network Hubs are a new hex improvement that function similarly to a Basic Provider's "prime IC." Just as an IC can accept connections from any number of HPGs, a NH can accept connections from any number of ICs, allowing the creation of a "spoke" network rather than the more limited "circuit" network that ICs allow for. Normally, each spoke operates as its own "Basic Provider" network, transmitting downstream to the hub or upstream to the delivery destination, but in the event of a disruption along one spoke, downstream stations can connect to ICs in another spoke using the third connection port to maintain system integrity.

The only restriction on the scope of a Network Hub is that is cannot control HPGs more than 30 hexes from the center of the network.

A Network Hub costs 200 resource points to build and requires at least four turns for construction. Once built, it generates 5 RP per turn of revenue. A Network Hub does not on its own create Communications Provider revenue. Network Hubs may not be guest facilities.