Just a note for all of you wanting to know what is available. If it is available via TRO 3085 excepting SDS related technoloy AND is supported in megamek/mega aero AND you can produce the design it is allowed. What does this mean to you? Lots of opportunities to either trade or research the weapon/tech or design.
I was always fuzzy on the rules for developing new tech. I'll reread that section of the rules. But one of my main questions goes unanswered by this response, and that is, this game started in 3062, after this game started, new designs were added to the 3060 time period. It is my opnion that all of these designs should be available to the faction that made them without having to spend for them. What is the official ruling on that?
If the design is in TRO 3067 or before odds are it is available to you. This is reflected in the total points granted to cover for the time jump. If the design is 3075 or newer you must have acquired it via normal R and D or via previous token exchanges. Select variants of older designs do require tech that was not available in the time period prior to the time jump they can be researched normally. A variant from any time period counts as a design. Consult the MUL as released by Catalyst for specifics on release dates for units. Exceptions to this ruling once again are SDS related items.
Roger that. ;) This answers my #1 question on the subject. ;) The old MUL files didn't have a lot of stuff :P Will updated my files and send a copy so you know what we think we can make ;)
As far as I know, the HAG was the only restricted weapon right? No holds on the Plasma Rifles we made?
Falcons were the only ones with HAGs in 62, and Plasmas were indeed restricted, IS and Clan. I don't even think the TH had them, did they?
((Shrugs)) Will make a differnce because with no Plasma / HAG, there goes at least half of the Raven designs. Please tell me we still get the AP Gauss :P I want my new Protos XD
I know the Dominion has the RAC and Heavy Gauss for sure so at least I can count on some of that.
AP Gauss is definetly in somewhere, as Falcons have the Ironhold Assault Armor(quad AP Gauss ftw!!). Not sure if others beyond us have it or not, didn't ask.
You could always make a deal with the Falcons for HAGs you know. We're open to trading with the Ravens and Bears
<<Takes DK into the Negotiation room>> Muah ha ha.
The Vipers would trade but eh we are Vipers if someone has a bauble we like we will offer a honourable trial.
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 19, 2011, 07:42:54 PM
Falcons were the only ones with HAGs in 62, and Plasmas were indeed restricted, IS and Clan. I don't even think the TH had them, did they?
Mmmm... why then does Sarna.net say that the HAG was designed by the Hell's Horses. cheers.
Because Sarna is a source of cannon reference, which this game is not. Technology designs do not fall into cannon timelines, otherwise the whole design token idea is useless, because then everyone would have all their designs from 3075 and 3085. I thought thats the whole point of playing a non-Cannon game? Was for it NOT to be cannon?
Quote from: Parmenion on May 20, 2011, 03:29:32 PM
Quote from: Daemonknight on May 19, 2011, 07:42:54 PM
Falcons were the only ones with HAGs in 62, and Plasmas were indeed restricted, IS and Clan. I don't even think the TH had them, did they?
Mmmm... why then does Sarna.net say that the HAG was designed by the Hell's Horses. cheers.
This is one of the areas where FGC deviated from canon. Before I came on as a GM, it was decided that the TH had a substantial technology edge. Specifically, they were decided to have already invented all of the technology in Total Warfare, Tactical Ops, and Strategic Ops, except for Streak LRMs and Plasma Weapons.
Most of those weapons have subsequently been invented by other factions as well, and the HAGs in particular were acquired by the Falcons as a result of an R&D roll. While I believe from a fluffy point of view the Falcons RP'd it like they had reverse engineered TH examples, mechanically they invented it through normal random R&D means.
Having said that, if memory serves me correctly, the Horse Alliance is one of very few (possibly the only) faction with access to Plasma Rifle technology, so unless I am out of date I think you guys do still have a tech niche.
Okay...
To clairfy tech access. Just beacuse you have access to the technology does not mean you can build it. It means you can build the design IF you can purchase the technology from a faction who makes it. What this means is that you can buy finished systems ( i.e HAG,C3I,Plasma Rifles AP Gauss etc.etc.) from the faction who produces said system. You can license the design or trade what ever to get it OR (gasp!) trial for it. This was the intent of the initial post.
Mmmmm... from this, and for the general public, who has the following stuff and more importantly, is interested in trading/selling:
Compact Gyro
Small Cockpit
MML
Snub nose PPC
HAG
Rotary Autocannon
Stealth armour
(by all means, send me a PM :) )
Falcons/Lyrans have:
HAG
AP Gauss
Plasma Rifle(IS)
Osomeone has streak lrms tooo. the wolves would not have shaeed easily, so it may have gone where they control their tech better.
Information in red below is as of the end of the '62 campaign, so I'm sure its no secret by '91..
Quote from: Parmenion on May 23, 2011, 03:03:23 PM
Mmmmm... from this, and for the general public, who has the following stuff and more importantly, is interested in trading/selling:
Compact Gyro - Lyrans/Falcons
Small Cockpit - Lyrans, Adders
MML - Somebody, but I don't remember who :(
Snub nose PPC - Combine
HAG - Lyrans/Falcons
Rotary Autocannon - Adders, Dominion
Stealth armour - Adders
(by all means, send me a PM :) )
Um didn't I have the entire Lyran tech tree?
I am rather certain I did ayup. :-)
You had what they had at the time you got it. We didn't have HAGs, or Plasma Rifles, at the time the deal was made. Not sure about the Gyro or Cockpit
Thanks Dave!!
Is anyone able to shed any light on who has the following:
Light PPC
XL Gyro
Light FF
Improved Jump Jets
And DK has already mentioned that he has the (IS) Plasma Rifle
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 23, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
Information in red below is as of the end of the '62 campaign, so I'm sure its no secret by '91..
Quote from: Parmenion on May 23, 2011, 03:03:23 PM
Mmmmm... from this, and for the general public, who has the following stuff and more importantly, is interested in trading/selling:
Compact Gyro - Lyrans/Falcons
Small Cockpit - Lyrans, Adders
MML - Somebody, but I don't remember who :(
Snub nose PPC - Combine
HAG - Lyrans/Falcons
Rotary Autocannon - Adders, Dominion
Stealth armour - Adders
(by all means, send me a PM :) )
Taurians swore up left down and side ways that they had Targetting Computers and improved jump jets. Used them against me a couple of times in MegaMek
Quote from: Parmenion on May 23, 2011, 10:20:29 PM
Thanks Dave!!
Is anyone able to shed any light on who has the following:
Light PPC
XL Gyro
Light FF
Improved Jump Jets
And DK has already mentioned that he has the (IS) Plasma Rifle
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 23, 2011, 05:04:44 PM
Information in red below is as of the end of the '62 campaign, so I'm sure its no secret by '91..
Quote from: Parmenion on May 23, 2011, 03:03:23 PM
Mmmmm... from this, and for the general public, who has the following stuff and more importantly, is interested in trading/selling:
Compact Gyro - Lyrans/Falcons
Small Cockpit - Lyrans, Adders
MML - Somebody, but I don't remember who :(
Snub nose PPC - Combine
HAG - Lyrans/Falcons
Rotary Autocannon - Adders, Dominion
Stealth armour - Adders
(by all means, send me a PM :) )
OK... here's one. Under Hugin, the OWA was allowed the FRB-3E Firebee quite a number of cycles ago (if folk recall, when we had a one off 'bonus' of being able to choose 5 designs from your respective factions future designs. For the periphery nations, since they didn't usually have five designs, they were allowed to poke into the TRO3075 for designs. Hugin picked the aforementioned Firebee variant as one of his designs.
It comes complete with:
stealth armour
plasma rifle
MML
XL gyro
small cockpit
Does this mean that the Horse Alliance has the tech designs for the five components above?
I was told 'No designs with tech you don't already posses.' But maybe it was just for me and my factions.....
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 12:25:38 AM
OK... here's one. Under Hugin, the OWA was allowed the FRB-3E Firebee quite a number of cycles ago (if folk recall, when we had a one off 'bonus' of being able to choose 5 designs from your respective factions future designs. For the periphery nations, since they didn't usually have five designs, they were allowed to poke into the TRO3075 for designs. Hugin picked the aforementioned Firebee variant as one of his designs.
It comes complete with:
stealth armour
plasma rifle
MML
XL gyro
small cockpit
Does this mean that the Horse Alliance has the tech designs for the five components above?
Yeah... same here. Oliveash only allowed the MoC and CHH stuff we already had (which was why we were not allowed to get the Balius-A with the HAG).
Could be that Hugin slipped one passed the GMs at the time. Maybe they only looked at the FRB-2E main design, which is OK for a level 1 light mech, but nothing to write home about.
Quote from: Holt on May 24, 2011, 12:35:41 AM
I was told 'No designs with tech you don't already posses.' But maybe it was just for me and my factions.....
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 12:25:38 AM
OK... here's one. Under Hugin, the OWA was allowed the FRB-3E Firebee quite a number of cycles ago (if folk recall, when we had a one off 'bonus' of being able to choose 5 designs from your respective factions future designs. For the periphery nations, since they didn't usually have five designs, they were allowed to poke into the TRO3075 for designs. Hugin picked the aforementioned Firebee variant as one of his designs.
It comes complete with:
stealth armour
plasma rifle
MML
XL gyro
small cockpit
Does this mean that the Horse Alliance has the tech designs for the five components above?
Well, it seems to me like we need a GM to look into this and make a ruling. The way it looks, Everybody is way behind in what they are capable of producing. Yes, I know this is not canon, but it seems we need to do something.
I think I have found the issue.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 12:55:01 AM
Yeah... same here. Oliveash[/u] only allowed the MoC and CHH stuff we already had (which was why we were not allowed to get the Balius-A with the HAG).
Could be that Hugin slipped one passed the GMs at the time. Maybe they only looked at the FRB-2E main design, which is OK for a level 1 light mech, but nothing to write home about.
Quote from: Holt on May 24, 2011, 12:35:41 AM
I was told 'No designs with tech you don't already posses.' But maybe it was just for me and my factions.....
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 12:25:38 AM
OK... here's one. Under Hugin, the OWA was allowed the FRB-3E Firebee quite a number of cycles ago (if folk recall, when we had a one off 'bonus' of being able to choose 5 designs from your respective factions future designs. For the periphery nations, since they didn't usually have five designs, they were allowed to poke into the TRO3075 for designs. Hugin picked the aforementioned Firebee variant as one of his designs.
It comes complete with:
stealth armour
plasma rifle
MML
XL gyro
small cockpit
Does this mean that the Horse Alliance has the tech designs for the five components above?
For all his faults Oliveash was a nazi about his rulings, when he said no to something he pretty much didn't budge from it.
Part of the problem may have been that at the time the GM team didn't go out of their way to check the designs for adhering to the 'no new tech' rule. I originally requested the PXH-1c for RD and it was initially approved. It was subsequently disapproved after I (being a nice guy) double-checked specifically about the snubby. I'm not neccessarily suggesting anyone pulled a fast one, just that stuff got approved when it might not have been meant to (frankly, I always wondered how OWA got all that stuff...)
Its pretty well established in FGC canon that OWA did invent the Plasma Rifle, but as to the rest I'd definitely defer to DR6 for a final decision.
As to the other items, see below for the best of my recollections... DR6 of course may correct me if I am mis-remembering.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 23, 2011, 10:20:29 PM
Thanks Dave!!
Is anyone able to shed any light on who has the following:
Light PPC -- Draconis Combine
XL Gyro -- Lyrans & Adders
Light FF -- someone had the advanced I.S. ferro armor but I'm not sure who. Its in the reports PMs I'm sure.
Improved Jump Jets -- Taurians
And DK has already mentioned that he has the (IS) Plasma Rifle
Hi guys, I touched base with DR6 to confirm some details after I got some questions, and I wanted to post a little primer about how technology acquisition works for construction components (armor, gyros, HAGs, etc etc). The part that in particular applies to the off-camera freebies from the time jump is highlighted in red.
Normally, technology components can be acquired two different ways (not counting special stuff like tokens, etc)
- R&D roll: sometimes a faction invents a new technology or copycats another faction's breakthrough with immediate effect as a result of an R&D roll; when this happens the faction leader gets a PM telling them what technology they got. They are normally given one or two designs that use this tech (either with immediate access or requiring technology transfer projects, depending on how good the roll was) plus they may begin using omni variants that were previously unavailable due to this technology being 'locked.'
- Technology transfer: To steal a technology component from another faction, you need to either have the schematics or you need to sacrifice a "pristine" example (i.e. not "used" battlefield salvage, with the specific exception of warships). You pay 10 RP (or 5 if you sacrifice an exemplar) and then have to wait 2d6 turns to get the technology. Getting a technology component this way unlocks the omni configurations but does not automatically give any other free designs. If the new technology came with schematics for a design, those schematics have to be technology-transferred seperately as they are a distinct and unique piece of technology.
However, there are also occasionally "this design only" type tech components, which happens when a faction acquires a
unit design through R&D rolls (or special events like the 3091 reboot) that they didn't have the tech to build. In these cases, that faction would still be given access to their design (otherwise the R&D roll would be wasted), but the private message will contain some additional information:
- Whether or not the design can be transferred to other factions (usually "not until the tech to build it is seperately obtained" or "not unless the receiving party can build the design")
- Whether or not the 'locked' technology can be developed from the design (usually "no")
In 'one design only' tech cases, Omnimech designs are not automatically unlocked and generally a fluff explanation is given (such as "this is still prototype technology for your faction and you can't produce enough of it to equip other designs/omnis/etc" or something similar).
I'm not 100% sure on the fluff background for any limited tech access that results from the freebies, but I'm assuming its going to be "these weapon systems are very new developments and are still in the pre-production experimental stage so your faction can only make enough to equip these few designs nor can you make enough for exports to be viable." From what DR6 indicated to me, any new tech on these designs is not going to be eligible for technology-transferred into full production; it will have to be acquired through the first two methods listed at the top.
tl;dr: You can choose designs that have HAG, APGR, Plasma, whatever floats your boat as long as it meets the basic criteria for selection, but that doesn't mean you have that underlying technology in mass production unless you got it through the normal game mechanical means.
Hugin was pretty clear that we were pretty well off in the OA while I was a member, and a copy I have of orders that were to have been submitted clearly lists the Firebee 3D, along with the Royal Rifleman, Crab and Trident fighter, and the Helepolis 3H, Guillotine 8D (with its TC) and a host of other top of the line units. I wasn't around when these units were got, but the list was given as part of the OA orders to the GMs, so if they reviewed them or if they didn't, Hugin and I had a good faith reason to belive we were aproved to use them.
That said, the Firebee 3E is the only unit that takes things quite so far. There is the Pilliger 3Z, but not the 4Z, for example. So if the modern GMs want to put that down to an oversight and make a correction, it wouldn't be the end of the world, perhaps.
I can vouch for the Wolves having the Streak LRM's nva used them against me.
He mentioned the Ghost Bears/RD having them on their Viking Mech as well.
The way Hugin told me how they did it, is because the OWA has a shed full of MPs (probably two sheds full in the scheme of things). Instead of other factions buying MPs from the OWA using RP to make up for their troop lift limitations, Hugin would look at designs and trade those designs for his MPs. He obtained a truely substantial listing of designs. He had a further swag (ie... a lot) marked in his tech page, but since he didn't have any confirmation that the tech transfer was completed, i never used them.
He especially liked quad mechs I recall. Kept on asking me to trade him the Thunder Stallion! But also like a lot of the IS BA. And heaps of droppers, jumpships and Warships.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 24, 2011, 05:23:27 AM
Part of the problem may have been that at the time the GM team didn't go out of their way to check the designs for adhering to the 'no new tech' rule. I originally requested the PXH-1c for RD and it was initially approved. It was subsequently disapproved after I (being a nice guy) double-checked specifically about the snubby. I'm not neccessarily suggesting anyone pulled a fast one, just that stuff got approved when it might not have been meant to (frankly, I always wondered how OWA got all that stuff...)
Quote from: chaosxtreme on May 24, 2011, 11:35:46 AM
I can vouch for the Wolves having the Streak LRM's nva used them against me.
He mentioned the Ghost Bears/RD having them on their Viking Mech as well.
no. Wolves had a viking slrm mech. Rd did not have slrms
Sheesh wish I had known. I had been giving away MP for "good will" or a few RP. Now I know and knowing is half the swindling.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 12:06:48 PM
The way Hugin told me how they did it, is because the OWA has a shed full of MPs (probably two sheds full in the scheme of things). Instead of other factions buying MPs from the OWA using RP to make up for their troop lift limitations, Hugin would look at designs and trade those designs for his MPs. He obtained a truely substantial listing of designs. He had a further swag (ie... a lot) marked in his tech page, but since he didn't have any confirmation that the tech transfer was completed, i never used them.
He especially liked quad mechs I recall. Kept on asking me to trade him the Thunder Stallion! But also like a lot of the IS BA. And heaps of droppers, jumpships and Warships.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 24, 2011, 05:23:27 AM
Part of the problem may have been that at the time the GM team didn't go out of their way to check the designs for adhering to the 'no new tech' rule. I originally requested the PXH-1c for RD and it was initially approved. It was subsequently disapproved after I (being a nice guy) double-checked specifically about the snubby. I'm not neccessarily suggesting anyone pulled a fast one, just that stuff got approved when it might not have been meant to (frankly, I always wondered how OWA got all that stuff...)
I think in some ways, that represents what is 'broken' with the game. Broken as in this is not a game of Battletech. More, it's a strategic game of naval combat, punctuated by moments of ground combat. You can have a top-notch army in this game, but unless you also have a beast of a navy, it can't move, nor can it protect itself. So in this case, the OWA, as a periphery minnow, became a shark with the ASF allocations given to it (especially in regards to all those Elite flotillas it had). Able to trade off it's MP for topnotch designs, ranging from battlearnour to warships.
Quote from: chaosxtreme on May 24, 2011, 01:04:22 PM
Sheesh wish I had known. I had been giving away MP for "good will" or a few RP. Now I know and knowing is half the swindling.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 12:06:48 PM
The way Hugin told me how they did it, is because the OWA has a shed full of MPs (probably two sheds full in the scheme of things). Instead of other factions buying MPs from the OWA using RP to make up for their troop lift limitations, Hugin would look at designs and trade those designs for his MPs. He obtained a truely substantial listing of designs. He had a further swag (ie... a lot) marked in his tech page, but since he didn't have any confirmation that the tech transfer was completed, i never used them.
He especially liked quad mechs I recall. Kept on asking me to trade him the Thunder Stallion! But also like a lot of the IS BA. And heaps of droppers, jumpships and Warships.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 24, 2011, 05:23:27 AM
Part of the problem may have been that at the time the GM team didn't go out of their way to check the designs for adhering to the 'no new tech' rule. I originally requested the PXH-1c for RD and it was initially approved. It was subsequently disapproved after I (being a nice guy) double-checked specifically about the snubby. I'm not neccessarily suggesting anyone pulled a fast one, just that stuff got approved when it might not have been meant to (frankly, I always wondered how OWA got all that stuff...)
At least he answered the PMs sent to him. Unlike certain other who sat above him >:(
Quote from: GreyJaeger on May 24, 2011, 02:57:42 AM
I think I have found the issue.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 12:55:01 AM
Yeah... same here. Oliveash[/u] only allowed the MoC and CHH stuff we already had (which was why we were not allowed to get the Balius-A with the HAG).
Could be that Hugin slipped one passed the GMs at the time. Maybe they only looked at the FRB-2E main design, which is OK for a level 1 light mech, but nothing to write home about.
Quote from: Holt on May 24, 2011, 12:35:41 AM
I was told 'No designs with tech you don't already posses.' But maybe it was just for me and my factions.....
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 12:25:38 AM
OK... here's one. Under Hugin, the OWA was allowed the FRB-3E Firebee quite a number of cycles ago (if folk recall, when we had a one off 'bonus' of being able to choose 5 designs from your respective factions future designs. For the periphery nations, since they didn't usually have five designs, they were allowed to poke into the TRO3075 for designs. Hugin picked the aforementioned Firebee variant as one of his designs.
It comes complete with:
stealth armour
plasma rifle
MML
XL gyro
small cockpit
Does this mean that the Horse Alliance has the tech designs for the five components above?
Hey, when it works, a bit of good will can go a hell of a long way, while stealth armor is really only good if you can find an MM opponent, and its still beatable even then. At coventry, the Adders had a few stealth mechs; the FWL had a few friends along...
But yeah, the game has always been too much about air combat, espcealy as people more and more came to see it as key, and it sort of reenforced its self. And the notion that moble force points should make a lot of MP, that a jumpship full of fighters can somehow generate the ability to lift a bunch of mechs, has always been problematic at the best of times. But Hugin and the OA players, and the FWL team and most everyone else who benifited from thouse rules over the years (its equaly silly how many MPs you get from a loaded Thera, which by all rights should have such a giant logistical tail from keeping thouse fighters gassed up that it should take away MPs) didn't make the rules. They were made, and we all had the same rules, and factions that were heavy into air power were all able to get the same MP bonuses. Its just a qustion of what we each did with them.
As for Olive, I always liked him the best. We argued our share, and he made some crazy rulings and rules. But, when it was clear that something was wrong, it got fixed. All thouse crazy battle resolutions that I railed on him for, which often times screwed me over quite baddly, never were used again after. I think that counts for something.
Its probably pertinent to note that the whole "let me trade MP for designs scheme" actually got the OWA in pretty hot water with the GMs at one point because OWA was not following the tech transfer rules (i.e. not paying their 10+ RP and waiting 2d6 turns before putting the designs into use). I'm not certain how it was resolved, as I wasn't on the GM team at the time, but Olive gave me the impression that the actual "corrected" OWA tech list was substantially shorter than it was at the height of the tech trading scheme's operation.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 12:06:48 PM
The way Hugin told me how they did it, is because the OWA has a shed full of MPs (probably two sheds full in the scheme of things). Instead of other factions buying MPs from the OWA using RP to make up for their troop lift limitations, Hugin would look at designs and trade those designs for his MPs. He obtained a truely substantial listing of designs. He had a further swag (ie... a lot) marked in his tech page, but since he didn't have any confirmation that the tech transfer was completed, i never used them.
He especially liked quad mechs I recall. Kept on asking me to trade him the Thunder Stallion! But also like a lot of the IS BA. And heaps of droppers, jumpships and Warships.
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 24, 2011, 05:23:27 AM
Part of the problem may have been that at the time the GM team didn't go out of their way to check the designs for adhering to the 'no new tech' rule. I originally requested the PXH-1c for RD and it was initially approved. It was subsequently disapproved after I (being a nice guy) double-checked specifically about the snubby. I'm not neccessarily suggesting anyone pulled a fast one, just that stuff got approved when it might not have been meant to (frankly, I always wondered how OWA got all that stuff...)
Quote from: chaosxtreme on May 24, 2011, 11:35:46 AM
I can vouch for the Wolves having the Streak LRM's nva used them against me.
He mentioned the Ghost Bears/RD having them on their Viking Mech as well.
Aff, I verified that none of the RD Vikings have S-LRMs. They're still damn nice though ;)
Quote from: Dave Baughman on May 24, 2011, 02:36:54 PM
Its probably pertinent to note that the whole "let me trade MP for designs scheme" actually got the OWA in pretty hot water with the GMs at one point because OWA was not following the tech transfer rules (i.e. not paying their 10+ RP and waiting 2d6 turns before putting the designs into use). I'm not certain how it was resolved, as I wasn't on the GM team at the time, but Olive gave me the impression that the actual "corrected" OWA tech list was substantially shorter than it was at the height of the tech trading scheme's operation.
I think this is funny, because he made sure I knew how much I had to pay when I got designs from him :P
Well, I know that when I ran the Vipers, I was selling some designs for cash, I made sure the purchaser knew exactly what had to happen.// Man was I selling stuff cheap. lol
The Spirit Cats and Ravens had a nice little tech exchange. 2 Battle Armor suits for 2 Battle Armor suits with a "Do Not Trade" clause, and we essentially got the Nova Cat Omni in exchange for a Cluster Commander... :P Marlin's been told, when she passes, he doesn't have the rights to her genes, they must come back to our repository ;)
Fate, thats really way too low level for me. As it is, I hope that some day, a knight in shiny white armor cometh and takes the Spirit Cats to fulfill their fate. I know I am far too nice as a player. :P
Anyway, as Dave reposted the Tech rules as I understood them, I am thankful I did not get it wrong. *phew*
Btw, the issue with the Viking 4 was never cleared up for real, once it was said they had streak LRMs, when I finally got some data, I was rather unimpressed. :P
Any chance the Streak LRM was left by the Exiles at WOlfsbaum Station?
Nope. :)
Exiles were VERY protective of the SLRMs. And, it is the Viking IIc that has Streak LRMs.
You can keep those suckers ;P Give me the eLRMs instead XD, I built a Naginata once that used those and housed the C3 master. ;) It was a glorious thing to behold. :)
Quote from: Marlin on May 24, 2011, 05:50:21 PM
Btw, the issue with the Viking 4 was never cleared up for real, once it was said they had streak LRMs, when I finally got some data, I was rather unimpressed. :P
Its probably pertinent to note that there are two different Viking IV designs. The VKG-4F, a.k.a. Viking IIC, is the original design that was co-developed with the Exiles. That version had Streak LRMs and some other fun stuff and was a real monster (2x ERLL, 4x SLRM-15 if I recall correctly). The VKG-4O, which the Dominion uses, doesn't have as much advanced technology (no streak LRMs for example), but its faster (4/6 vs. 3/5) and its an omni.
*scratches head* And which version then was found on Strana Mechty?
Quote from: Marlin on May 24, 2011, 06:48:06 PM
*scratches head* And which version then was found on Strana Mechty?
They were the mass-production Omni versions, though some of them were fitted out in non-standard configurations. Most of the experimental gear, however, was wired to self destruct when the 'mechs went down, preventing the recovery of significant amounts.
Remind me. When obtaining new designs as part of diplomacy, what are the rules for actually putting them into production? Does it require any additional R&D or reverse engineering?
Flat 10RP for Mech, BA, ASF designs. Also requires a 2d6 roll to see how many turns it will take.
its 10x of production cost, or 10RP, whichever is greater. So as Holt said, ASF, Mechs, Tanks, BA and Dropships will all be 10rp, because nothing there is more expensive than 1fp(maybe a few dropships will come out to 12.5 or something).
Warships are usuall very expensive. You have to take the FP, multiply it by the normal Mobile or LFB mobile modifer for the production cost, then multiply THAT by 10 for the reverse engineering cost. An example cuts the costs in half
Example, a Fox-class Corvette. A Fox is 2.5 FP, and is LFB Mobile. So, 2.5 * 10(LF) = 25rp to build a Fox. Now to reverse engineer that Fox, you take 25 *10 = 250rp to reverse engineer it and add it to your list of designs. If you get a Fox from somewhere and sacrifice it, you cut the cost in half(or 125). But you still need to wait the 2d6 turns before u get it, even if u pay it all off on the first turn.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
I think in some ways, that represents what is 'broken' with the game. Broken as in this is not a game of Battletech. More, it's a strategic game of naval combat, punctuated by moments of ground combat.
It's Battletech at the Grand Strategy level, with elements of politics, strategy, and logistics. That doesn't make it broken.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
You can have a top-notch army in this game, but unless you also have a beast of a navy, it can't move, nor can it protect itself.
Heavy-Lift capability is a serious issue in the canon universe. It does tend to get glossed over, but it's very much there. There's a reason borders don't move much in canon. There are ways around naval dominance in this game, and naval dominance itself is very hard to achieve.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 01:29:03 PM
So in this case, the OWA, as a periphery minnow, became a shark with the ASF allocations given to it (especially in regards to all those Elite flotillas it had).
Hold one second here. The OWA was in a terrible spot at the beginning of the game. It had virtually no territory and no resources, was dependent on a foreign power for most of its budget, and had no factories, technology, or army to speak of, and a third-rate navy comprised of a handful of jumpships, one decent dropship (also, some Leopards,) and some fighters.
The navy the OWA had when it ran out of players was the result of player effort, not simply handed to it.
Quote from: chaosxtreme on May 24, 2011, 01:04:22 PM
Sheesh wish I had known. I had been giving away MP for "good will" or a few RP. Now I know and knowing is half the swindling.
Usually, I'd rather have the goodwill or the RPs. Of course, the Dominion is hardly hurting in terms of its design library.
Quote from: Parmenion on May 24, 2011, 12:06:48 PM
Instead of other factions buying MPs from the OWA using RP to make up for their troop lift limitations, Hugin would look at designs and trade those designs for his MPs.
The old OWA leadership had a term for that kind of dealing -- "disastrous mismanagement." Of course, we were a little funny in the head by most accounts.
Aha. I see now why most Periphery States don't have any WarShips to speak of, and why these rules are under the "Economics" section.
At least I kept the Raven MP deals consistent. Before the Ravens came into the Dominion, they had the same transportation issues as everyone else. Sure they had a few Clan Warships, but their ground forces vastly exceeded the need to move with that pool. I thought the In-Game costs for MP was ridiculously high so I set a "Standard" rate for trading MP at 50 MP per 1 RP and left the option to trail for a better deal with the knowledge that trialing for a better rate came with a standard counter-bid for a more expensive rate. So, you could trail for 100 MP per 1 RP, but I would normally counter with the 25 MP per 1 RP and that both sides trialing had to agree to the amount of MP the trial would be worth ahead of time. The only thing that usually augmented the starting price was whether or not you were an Ally or Enemy. This either started the starting costs up or down one category, or we bid more or less aggressively, but no Trial for MP was ever refused. :) Those that fought against for for bits of Tranquil found out that. The horses I underbid by .25 (CSR: 1.75 vs CHH: 2), but the Spirits as allies I underbid by .5 (CSR:1.5 vs CBS: 2)
As a "Merchant Power" the Ravens try to offer trails to negotiate prices. Sometimes with token trials. I use them a lot to finish simple deals, Any who, This thread was once about Tech Availability :P I didn't go back far enough to see all of the discussion :P